security programs and related "oops's"

Discussion in 'other security issues & news' started by snapdragin, Apr 28, 2002.

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  1. snapdragin
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    snapdragin Administrator

    i know the Subject Title is a bit strange, but what i mean by related "oops" is when a security program makes a mistake and their reply is simply "sorry for the inconvenience...it will be corrected in our next update".

    what i am wondering is when a person should consider the actions of a security program as being aggressive, over-writing the user's options and control of what the program does to the user's machine...and may in fact be putting them into a possible vulnerable position.

    this would leaves the customer in the position of either waiting for the "fix" or completely uninstalling the program, but the customer may not be fully aware of how vulnerable they have become to make a fair decision since most would usually be trusting the security program they bought, or not have the technical knowledge to see the degree of vulnerability they have been put into.

    just a side-note, but when would an "oops" from a security program/ company....NOT be considered a true "oops" ?
  2. spy1
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    spy1 Registered Member

    Without having specific examples, all I can do is generalize.

    I have more than one of each kind of program on my computer, if you're referring to AV/AT and/or firewall programs.

    None of them are set to automatically 'remove' or replace anything - they're all set to 'Alert'
    only. That gives me a chance to see if the back-up programs find the same things, which gives me input on whether the original 'Alert' was solid or a 'false' alert.

    Right off-hand, I don't know of any AV/AT program that doesn't give you several options as to what to do with an alert - as long as you select to be alerted in your program options for whichever program.

    When there is a 'false alert' situation, there's really not much the vendor can do, other than put out a new, corrected update (although it's definitely my opinion that they should by all means and prominently publicize the problem, whatever it is.

    People can forgive mistakes (if they know about them in time to keep from perhaps damaging themselves with them) -  people (myself included) have a lot harder time forgiving mistakes if they're not responded to in a timely, open manner.

    So, definitely go thru all your settings on all your AV/AT/Firewall/anti-spyware programs and make sure that they're not set to take actions that you could wind up regretting. HTH Pete
  3. snapdragin
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    snapdragin Administrator

    hi there Spy1 :)

    i wanted to keep my question general because i know how damaging a comment can be to a program, sometimes both to company and to the person making the comment.

    but without mentioning any names since i am unsure if that would be allowed, publically, i can only describe this based on my own experience....and it is an AV that i am talking about.

    the program's recent update seemed more like an upgrade, and without any indicated to me what was going to be updated, changed...installed...etc.,

    example:
    1. i now have two icons on my desktop
    2. the program is now on a scheduled task to "wake up the machine" every 4 hours at a set time that has been determined by the program, to connect to the net and download updates.
    3. no matter how i try and change the task scheduler (never used it before...hate it...don't want ANYTHING on any set task...especially to wake my pc and connect to the net)...but no matter what i've tried, i cannot change it, not even the time....when i reboot it goes back to it's default settings.
    4.  the new icon on the desktop doesn't tell me what it's for but when i clicked on it i was immediately taken to the program's site and scanned for security software and privacy software/firewall, etc., on my pc.  (it told me i have no privacy software or firewall installed)  i had both SPF and Ad-Aware running at the time....Ad-Aware took out the double-click cookie i got there.

    i went to the member's support page, logged in, and looked for any information on this automatic-every-4-hour-update feature and several member's have already complained about it and wanted it removed.  The response was simple..."sorry for the inconvenience...it will be fixed in the next update" ....with no indication as to how it will be fixed or when there will be a "next update" (one i am not wanting to participate in after this last one)

    the user was not informed as to what would happen in this recent update, what would be installed, how it was to be installed...and that the user would NOT have any say or control in the program's installation and settings.

    i was not happy with the constant ad pop-ups every time i updated the AV and i was considering replacing my existing AV with NOD32 at a later date....(i have NOD32 on my other pc and i love it!).....but this last update clinched it for me, now i will uninstall the AV and replace it with NOD32....i am just hoping that i will be allowed enough "control" over the AV to uninstall it without it causing any damage to my pc! LOL
  4. spy1
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    spy1 Registered Member

    Wow, that is wild!

    By all means, tell us who the vendor was that pulled that stunt. We may have to put out a 'security alert' on them! :) Pete
  5. root
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    root Registered Member

    Yes, indeed! I think many people would like to be aware of what company would even try something like that.
  6. snowman
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    snowman Guest

            SNAP

            now you have me very curious......could it by chance be an anti-virus program that placed an incon on your desktop?    Cause I had one "try"  after a recent update......the icon was a "log"....but no settings were changed on my computer....but that may be due to the way I have my computer set-up....


                                   snowman
  7. snapdragin
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    snapdragin Administrator

    Actually, i have already kinda said WHO the anti-virus vendor is.... now i was sure you'd guess "who" it was Spy1 ;)

    i am not sure if actually posting who the vendor is is legally allowed since i am speaking negatively rather than positively about them....and i do try to look for the positive and give the benefit of the doubt in most cases, but i just can't find it here.  i have even gone back over every step to see if i had missed something....but even doing that i can't see where i would have been able to avoid this since the uhh..."enhancements" (hint) were included in the actual virus definition files update.  There WAS no way around it, and if you wanted your virus scan updated as everyone does....then the "enhancements" came with it...........NO CHOICE.

    snowman, yes, the extra icon was added to my desktop by the anti-virus program, again, no choice.

    Spy1, i wrote up a text file describing these enhancements and how they were presented and d/l'ed along with the scan that happened when i clicked on the one icon, if you would like to see it...........i tested their scan again too, but this time with TDS-3 fully loaded and WormGuard fully loaded, SPF and Ad-Watch running....and again, their "scan" came up with the same results saying i had nothing on my system to protect me.......of course with the push to purchase their security programs that they state are #1.  ~rolls her eyes~  i may be getting older but i'm not stoooopid yet. ~LOL~

    false advertising....perhaps??  Makes you wanna go.....hummmmmmmmmm.....~blink~
  8. marti
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    marti Registered Member

    Hi Snap,

    I have no idea what AV program you are talking about.  Stating that you have problems with one AV program is not being negative -- it's stating the problem.

    Please provide the name.

    thanks,
    marti
  9. Gnostic
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    Gnostic Registered Member

    Yes, please be specific about the AV program.  Some of us are not as knowledgeable or savvy as some on this board.  I want to learn to protect myself, so please gives all the details.
  10. discogail
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    discogail Security Expert

  11. snapdragin
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    snapdragin Administrator

    hello discogail :)

    yes, your guess and link is accurate.

    i apologize if it looked like i was trying to be mysterious about this, that was not my intent, but before i say something negative about a product i need to be very sure of my facts since i am not a programmer or computer expert by any means.......my comments are based solely on my personal experience with this anti-virus vendor and i made sure i went back over what happened several times before i made my comments.

    i will add to spy1's thread also.

    btw...nice to meet you! :)
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