Rollback Rx question

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Moreudomoreuget, Jan 3, 2012.

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  1. Osaban
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    Osaban Registered Member

    I don't think one can exclude anything within RBRx. You can exclude RBRx from Avast guard (I did it with Avira) the folder to look for is Program Files/Shield.
  2. bgoodman4
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    bgoodman4 Registered Member


    Is this what you are looking for?

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  3. TheRollbackFrog
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    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

    BG4's post on snapshot file retention can help, but it's a dicey option for active processes (AV/AS, startup processes, etc.)

    At the time RBrx tries to restore your selected files, if a process is already open and the file to be restored is open for READ or being written, RBrx's restoration process will fail (typical Windows feature on changing OPEN files).

    I tried this with my reminder system and it fails horribly. I needed to stop the reminder process manually and do the file restoration (via the RBrx RESTART snapshot) manually. Same problem with AV/AS software. I eventually move those types of apps to a non-protected partition so they wouldn't be messed with as a result of rolling back.

    I gave up trying to use it for anything other than STATIC files.
  4. Werderforever
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    Werderforever Registered Member

    This is very interesting. Does anyone know something about that? I take a snap ervery hour per schedule and so I think many applications are running at the time when the snap is taken.
    Are there any risks (perhaps corrupted filesystem or something like
    that)?

    Another point: Some users have recognized that with RBRX booting and loading the desktop is slower then without RBRX.
    I have the same problem and HorizonDatasys cannot solve the problem.

    Excluding the folder "Shield" does not solve the problem too.

    Werderforever
  5. Osaban
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    Osaban Registered Member

    I can't answer your first point other that I don't let the program create snapshots automatically.

    I've experienced very slow bootings with one AV (in my case Vipre 2012) to the point of being totally unacceptable. I had an acceptable improvement with Avira Premium 2012, which means still longer than without an AV but nevertheless there. It goes without saying that having an AV on demand further improves the the time although RBRx itself natively slows down a bit booting times.
  6. bgoodman4
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    bgoodman4 Registered Member

    I too have Rx take snaps on thed hour and have never had a problem when rolling back. Perhaps they are suggesting this so you are sure all files are saved at the time you take a snap. Obviously if you have an app open and some doc is being worked on if you take a snap and then roll back you will lose your work (but you could recover it). I would also think if this were a serious issue that the auto snap would not be part of the program as there would be too great a risk of problems. For a definitive ans you might want to pose this question over on the Rx forum or better yet to Horizon tech support. Interesting question, hopefully you will get ans and and if you do please share it with us.

    I suspect this is the nature of the beast. Rx has to load before everything else loads so it will take longer to boot and get the desktop. The only solution I think is to get a faster computer.
  7. Werderforever
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    Werderforever Registered Member

    Many thanks Osaban and bgoodman4,

    I have tested with several Antivirus programs like Avast, Avira and MSE (Certainly not at the same time!). But no difference between excluded Folder "Shield" or not.

    Horizon Datasys could not help. My computer should have be enough power: Phenom II X4 955 with Multi 18,5 and 4 GB RAM DDR 1.333, Chipset 870.

    Snap integrity: I will ask in Horizon forum and share my experience with you.

    Werderforever
  8. bgoodman4
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    bgoodman4 Registered Member

    If its specifically AV programs that you are concerned about I found boot time to be reduced from that experienced with Trend Micro by switching to ESET. The difference was not huge but it did speed things up. The reduced boot time was not why I switched to ESET, it just happened to be an added bonus.

    Like I said above longer boot times with Rx installed is something you just have to get used to. Its just the way things work since Rx must load and it takes a bit of time to do this. I have also managed to reduced boot time by disabling all nonessential services and I have found some further improvement by using a program called Startup Delayer (at least I think it has improved things somewhat, it may just seem like it takes less time because I see something happening on the desktop rather than just sitting there and waiting).
  9. TheRollbackFrog
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    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

    WF, there is no risk when using RBrx automatic snapshots. RBrx accomplishes the very same thing that Microsoft Windows VSS (Volume Shadow Service) offers, albeit in a very different way. The filesystem is frozen in a way to guarantee integrity then the snapshot is recorded. Remember, a RBrx snapshot is not a "recording" of the data... it's a recording of the filesystem containing that data at the time of the snapshot, along with the protection of that very same filesystem. The data and the filesystem remain "accessible" until that snapshot is deleted (or the system is re-baselined).

    This is basically the same process as if you started a HOT imaging tool that invoked VSS to protect the existing file system while the image was being taken... again in a very different way.
  10. TheRollbackFrog
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    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

    BG4, as a long time ESET user, I discovered a long time ago that both the RAM footprint and resource requirement of ESET was significantly smaller than almost all of the usual suspects in the AV/AS world, and always resulted in a smaller BOOT footprint as far as startup was concerned. This has not changed over many, many iterations of the product... especially as these products have evolved to a point where they not only try and protect your system, but also make your bed in the morning and prepare breakfast for you.:rolleyes:
  11. twl845
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    twl845 Registered Member

    Using Avast! I can select to load Avast! services only after loading other services during boot up. That shaves about 10 seconds off boot up time of about 90 seconds. Without RB boot up is about 60 seconds. Big deal eh?
  12. Function
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    Function Registered Member

    So this is my current set up

    C: Drive = Windows
    D: Drive = Videos/Music
    E: Drive = Games

    I have a external hard drive that I use to backup my music/videos. As my games are either on Steam/DVD's I don't need to back them up.

    Can I set up Rollback RX to only do snapshots for the C: Drive, so restoring a snapshot will have no affect on the D: or E: drives?


    I am currently using Macrium Reflect to create a image on my C: Drive. I did it today this morning, this afternoon I had a problem and had to re-image. It took around 40 minutes but no everything is okay. From what I understand Rollback RX will take less a minute to restore a "snapshot" if a problem occurs.

    How fast is it to create and restore a snapshot for those who do use Rollback RX?

    As I was reading the thread I got confused a bit about this whole hot/cold/sector of drives and imaging. So could someone tell me if I am able to use Macrium Reflect (or another imaging software) to fully backup my C Drive. I plan to create a image of my C drive once a month (in case the HDD fails). As I understand it a system image would only back up the base line so...


    Snapshot A = Windows

    Now I install Software ABC and do another snapshot

    Snapshot B = Windows + Software ABC



    If I make an image using Macrium Reflect would it image Snapshot A or Snapshot B?

    If it would only do Snapshot A how does one get it to image Snapshot B?
  13. Scott W
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    Scott W Registered Member

    Absolutely. That's easily accomplished when installing RB by selecting Custom Installation.


    On my system, RB will restore any one of its snapshots in about 2 minutes (which includes bootup time), but please do not allow that convenience to keep you from making image backups!


    Taking an RB snapshot is extremely fast, perhaps on the order of 5 to 10 seconds. As I indicated, restoring an RB snapshot takes me about 2 minutes from the time I initiate the restore to the time my desktop is ready for use.


    Absolutely, but as I have never used Macrium I can't give you absolute answers to your questions. Imho the easiest way to create an image of your current RB snapshot (i.e. the most current state of your C-drive) is to simply create a normal backup using your disk-image program from within Windows (a 'hot' backup). The downside to this method is that after restoring that image you will have to uninstall-reinstall RB. But how often are you likely to find yourself restoring a backup image, especially when you can usually restore an RB snapshot much faster? I would venture to guess not very often... ;)

    Scott
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  14. bgoodman4
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    bgoodman4 Registered Member

    I agree with everything Scott has said.

    You also ask

    It would image the state of the drive at the time you make the image. This would include the state as of the time of the creation of snapshot B but it will also likely include more that that. When you image the drive you are NOT imaging a snapshot. You are imaging the drive. Think of it this way:

    At 11:00 you create a snapshot.

    At 11:01 you check your emails

    At 11:10 you type a letter.

    At 11:20 you create an image using Macrium.

    The image created at 11:20 will containing anything written to the drive up to that time, that is, to the time you begin the imaging process. That includes everything that has occurred between 11:01 and 11:20. The snapshot will NOT contain anything that occurred after it was created at 11:00. As noted below if you you want to maintain all (or any) snapshots in your image you MUST do a full sector image.

    The only way to get/keep both (or any) snapshots using an imaging program is to do a full sector image (which includes supposedly empty sectors as far as Windows is concerned). If you do any other kind of image you will only get the most recent state of the drive, that is, the current state as of the time of the image. The reason for this is that Windows does not see the parts of the drive where the snapshots are written to as having been used. Windows is not able to write to this area as Rx has protected them, but as far as Windows is concerned the space is empty and thus a normal image, which does not record empty sections of the drive, will leave these sections out.

    So,,,,,,, if you want separate images of both states AFTER snapshot A & AFTER snapshot B you would have to create an image of the post A state, and then, after you install software ABC and create snapshot B, you will need to create a 2nd image, that will be the image of post snapshot B.

    To be absolutely clear, if you image normally once B is the state, thats the state you will capture (the programs and files from A will be included in the B image unless you have removed them, but the A state - that is, the state prior to installing software ABC - will not be included, or accessible,,,,,, except of course via Rx itself since you did create a snap before installing software ABC).

    I also want to emphasis something that Scott said,,,,,,

    Pretty much the only time you will need to use any image you create of the drive is if you have a drive failure,,,,, or if you want to revert back to a time prior to the current Rx baseline. Any other issue will be able to be easily dealt with simply by rolling back using Rx.

    In short, images are for extreme and very rare events. They are a must IMHO since even very rare events do sometimes happen.

    I create images weekly using Drive Cloner (a sister product of Rx) and monthly using a Paragon product. This is no doubt over-kill but this is the regime I have chosen. In the event of a drive failure I would not be happy having lost potentially a weeks work but it would be significantly preferable to risking a months data. Its really is a matter of how comfortable you are with the idea of any possible data loss, and thats, of course, a very personal decision.

    I have tried to make this a clear as possible because it can be rather confusing. Please excuse me if I have been at all redundant or wordy. If you are unclear about any of the above please let us know and we will try to clarify.

    I hope this helps.
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012
  15. Werderforever
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    Werderforever Registered Member

    Many thanks to bgoodman4 and TheRollbackFrog for your help.

    I have promised to share answer from HorizonDatasys with you:

    Answer from support: No, if there any problem while the program taking snapshots, the application will pop up a error message or it will show in the event log.

    Perhaps its interesting for other users.

    Werderforever
  16. twl845
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    twl845 Registered Member

    Yesterday I did something wrong while using Outlook, and really screwed Outlook up, to the point where it wouldn't access and threw up an error message. I accessed Rollback, clicked restore to the previous snapshot, rebooted, and it was like it never happened. All in about a minute. :cool:
  17. huntnyc
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    huntnyc Registered Member

    Amost thinking about trying RbRx again and need some info relating to snapshots and interaction with programs that have hard online activation schemes like RbRx itself. I use a few programs such as my Braille translation program that have a hard activation - don't know exactly what triggers it but sometimes after I update my bios, then activation breaks.

    My concern is, will going to various snapshots affect these type of programs and cause activaiton to break? AHope I am clear and thanks.

    Gary
  18. TheRollbackFrog
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    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

    Gary, any given "hard" activation scheme may include just about any kind of system hardware configuration information... most include mainboard serial #s, some include disk serial #s, some even BiOS versions (really stupid decision)... it's a crapshoot.

    To my knowledge, RBrx doesn't change any of those kinds of info in its normal operation... BUT, the only way to know for sure is to try it after backing up your complete system, just in case.

    You should be fine...
  19. huntnyc
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    huntnyc Registered Member

    Thanks for that and for all your insightful posts especially on this program.

    Gary
  20. huntnyc
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    huntnyc Registered Member

    Just got a license for RbRx and have a preinstall question - I use Sandboxie and have my sandbox erased by the Erased program that immediately clears the sidk space of the sandbox.

    When in an RbRx snapshot, should I just let SBIe delte sandbox on exit without the Eraser program erasing free space or does it matter? Just want things to operate smoothly and thanks.

    Gary
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