Is your ISP spying on you?

Discussion in 'ten-forward' started by Ghost, Sep 6, 2002.

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  1. Ghost

    Ghost Guest

    http://www.cnet.com/internet/0-3762-8-20336919-1.html

    Consider this scenario: You log on to a file-swapping network such as Gnutella or Morpheus and decide to share your copy of the latest Eminem single or a digital copy of Star Wars Episode II with the world. A few weeks later, you get a letter from your ISP threatening to cut off your service if you don't stop posting copyrighted material.
     
  2. Prince_Serendip

    Prince_Serendip Registered Member

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    ;) Hi Ghost! I guess this means that file-swappers are going to have to become more sophisticated? Like using encryption so their exchanges are more secure and private? Can Ranger Online read through encrypted files? Most likely not. I'm not condoning copyright infringement, but with most people, where there's a will, there's a way!

    Most likely, the big-batch swappers are already doing just that. Hollywood will only catch small fry! They are essentially using strong-arm tactics, however legal, on the ISP's. The "small fry" better get themselves up to speed on their own security and privacy, eh? :D
     
  3. ljc1174

    ljc1174 Registered Member

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    o_O Question o_O

    With a firewall enabled and running, esspecially while using a file share program is it still possible for an ISP or anyone else to track you or know what you are doing while online?
     
  4. root

    root Registered Member

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    Answer; yes indeed! :(
     
  5. ljc1174

    ljc1174 Registered Member

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    I'm baffled, so then what is the purpose of having a firewall IF, my isp can still get into my pc and see what I'm doing? If they can get into my pc and see what I am doing isn't that like trojan type behavior or something? My visualalarm shows a lot of attemps from an address that I am assuming is my ISP as well as other ISP's. Hmmm, now I'm wondering if those other ISP's are possibly provider's for record companies, I do get a lot of attempts from KaZaa as well. I do not have this program any longer though. And I've deleted everything relating to KaZaa from my pc. Oh well, life goes on...

    ~Lori
     
  6. Prince_Serendip

    Prince_Serendip Registered Member

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    :D Hi Lori! They are not getting into your PC! When your PC communicates with other PCs on the Net it uses little packets of info. Imagine a sprinkler and each packet is a drop of water. Your ISP can use a packet sniffer to read your packets while you are online. It can look at the packets and copy them before letting them continue on their way. It reads packets that are out there, not in any PC.

    This is why you are told to change your passwords regularly. These are included as unencrypted info in your packets. Firewalls protect you from unauthorized access and egress. They do nothing for packets that are beyond your PC. Hope this helps! ;)
     
  7. ljc1174

    ljc1174 Registered Member

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    :D

    yes, it does!!!

    you guys are teaching me sooooooooooooooooo much!!!

    so kewl!!!
     
  8. CarolinaMoonshine

    CarolinaMoonshine Registered Member

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    Has anyone here actually received a "cease and desist" letter from their ISP? :'(
     
  9. Mr.Blaze

    Mr.Blaze The Newbie Welcome Wagon

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    nope not yet but when i sighned up for aol i dont remember agreeing to them doing the you cant use file swaping by

    law you can turn around and sue the hell out of them remember the terms privacy and im sure thers a statue and amendent out there.

    i have to read aol policy
     
  10. Mr.Blaze

    Mr.Blaze The Newbie Welcome Wagon

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    hmmmmmmm will it looks like im not allowed to upload copyright matrial but there nothing in there saying i cant dowenload it.

    so it looks like they monitor your uploads
     
  11. Checkout

    Checkout Security Rhinoceros

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    One thing needs saying here: nobody has a right to breach someone else's copyright. You break the law by distributing or receiving copies of copyrighted material without the copyright owner's express permission.

    As for ISPs, they can only log which sites you visit or who you send and receive emails from but not the content of those communications, without a Court Order. I think (perhaps wrongly) than email snooping is restricted to the ISPs own mail server, not others such as Hotmail.
     
  12. root

    root Registered Member

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    I think the real world is something like this. Since most ISPs have thousands, or even millions of customers, they cannot monitor all the traffic coming and going through their servers. They can and will however, be aware of users that are using up hugh chunks of bandwidth.
    I would imagine that the ISPs that become aware of hugh bandwidth users would first take a quick look and see if someone had set up a server as that is against most TOSs.
    If an ISP finds someone that is engaged in suspicious activity, they can then start monitoring the traffic and they can see your incoming and outgoing packets. Those packets include address information, so they know what you are doing.
    Now we come to the area of how responsible the ISP is for what you may be doing. If they become aware of illegal behaviour, they are bound by law to report it. If they become aware of copyright infringements and the b*&ches in Hollywierd find out and the ISPs are doing nothing about it, I think it remains to be seen in court what is going to be the end result. At this point in time I think a lot of legal questions are still needing to be answered.
    I also have to admit, at this point in time, I have no idea how deep an ISP can look into your traffic without a court order. It is further complicated by the fact that the Government has the right to snoop right into you shorts now, thanks to the Patriots Act, without a court order.
    So, for me, I assume everything I do on the net is subject to scrutiny. With the advent of the DMCA, those people that are simply swapping songs are just as guilty of piracy as those that download and use a cracked copy of Windows.
    So far, no one has gone after any individual for piracy, they have always gone for the distributors. Who knows when that might change?
     
  13. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    See also my thread here:
    http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=3257
    about the dutch ISPs forced to be ready for spying if they want to be an ISP any longer, and if not ready with that obliged investment they can be fined and sepposed being suspicious.
    Viva la libertat!
    With that, i'm very sure the Netherlands will not be the first country, i rather think one of the last to have this; and i guess it will be in all EU countries.
    They can check every data leaving from and coming to your pc which they lead via their system to send it encrypted to the central storage somewhere.
    You have TDS and with that you can actually see all your datapackets and you can include/change data in them.
    (TDS > Network > Port Listen or Traffic Bridge) Try port 80 to start with and see what happens; in netstat you can see via which port you're collecting emails at the moment, might like to try that port for the occasion, etc.
    We're used over here to be the most phonetapped country in the world already, so give them some extra volume to deal with.
    Post on a few hundreds of forums and newsgroups, no matter if it is about pets, gardening or recipes, which you can fill with code as well of course if you really like. But there is more in the build, don't worry.
     
  14. Mr.Blaze

    Mr.Blaze The Newbie Welcome Wagon

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    lol copyright lol will check off you are 100% right but that means everything is copyrighted have anybody bother to read millinum law i seriousely doubt it i actualy did and everything from the pics that we use to the quotes that we post of some one else is all copyrighted.

    phrases speeches jokes pictures articles ect ect there is no open source and you are not allow to reverse enginear take apart and make better software so guess what where all guilty of copy right under the way the new law is written
     
  15. controler

    controler Guest

    Hi All

    We talked about this along time ago..

    What ISP's do is monitor certian PORTS for high bandiwth activity.
    I use to know which ones LOL
    anyway what most FTP servers do is simply change which port they exchange the info on... say example: ISP watches port 21 FTP guy or gal uses port 1500, 911 ect ;)
    Old indian trick
     
  16. Checkout

    Checkout Security Rhinoceros

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    The USA is a signatory to the Berne Convention. You can't make copies for anybody regardless of whether for sale or not. Copies - notably of software - are allowed only by tne express consent of the copyright holder only for backup purposes. You may not photocopy a novel for "backup purposes" or to hand out to some charitable or religious institution. No way, Jose.
     
  17. crkit1

    crkit1 Registered Member

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    And I was trying to be so cool! OK, that's what I get for operating on the teacher's word. We were told in class about this. Man! Now I have to do my own research. Thanks for setting me straight. I didn't really want to go to infringement prison.
    I'll be having a discussion with the teacher too.
     
  18. Checkout

    Checkout Security Rhinoceros

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    Actually (and I should have thought about this) there's an exception - shareware, where the author wants to "spread the word". Or freeware, which isn't charged for but the author retains copyright, and possibly some news articles marked "please copy". The common theme is that the copyright holder has the right to control distribution or get paid for its use by distributors (publishers) who have licensed specific rights (as in First North American Serial Rights).
     
  19. Prince_Serendip

    Prince_Serendip Registered Member

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    :) Very well put, my friend Checkout!

    There is another exception to the copyright laws, namely all that is in the Public Domain. There are time limits on copyright for good reasons. Materials that are included in the Public Domain can be freely copied and distributed. Public Domain existed long before computers and Internet.

    The problem with large-scale file sharing/swapping is that people set themselves up as brokers for other people's goods and services without getting their permission. It would be equivalent to someone who decides to broker your household goods and furniture without your consent. That is understood to be robbery. The difference here is that these brokers can handle a large number of "households," doing entire "neighborhoods" in one throw.

    Mistakes are being made as people try to grapple with the wholesale robberies that occur on the Net everyday. However, I sense that a kind of genesis is taking place with the mistakes included in the process. The worldwide Net is like the American West of two hundred years ago, except it's a whole lot bigger and faster. We are witnesses to the first faltering attempts as Law and Order are introduced to the Internet. This will, of necessity, be a collective effort and must not be the done by one country alone. It may be the biggest undertaking the Internet has ever seen. Have no doubt. It's on its way! As surely as the first US Marshalls arrived in the old American West!
     
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