Does NOD32 Personnel Agree With (Virus Test by GEGA IT-Solutions)??

Discussion in 'NOD32 version 1 Forum' started by agoretsky, May 1, 2003.

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  1. agoretsky
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    agoretsky Eset Staff Account

    Resolution: Does NOD32 Personnel Agree With (Virus Test by GEGA IT-Solutions)??

    Preface added: March 14, 2008

    [This message has been added to the beginning of this historical thread to document the final resolution reached between the main parties involved in the discussion that follows.]

    Hello,

    Some recent questions have been asked about this very old message thread, so to clarify how the issue was resolved, here is the actual agreement reached by all of the involved parties, below. As everyone can see, it was done in quite an amicable fashion, and all parties involved have moved forward and often interact with each other on malware-related issues. While the original agreement stipulated that the message thread would be removed, it is being left intact for historical purposes.

    Regards,

    Aryeh Goretsky


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    Last edited: Mar 14, 2008
  2. krazykidjoe
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    krazykidjoe Guest

    Does NOD32 Personnel Agree With (Virus Test by GEGA IT-Solutions)?? Please provide some feedback? I have been a faithful user of NOD32 and have now went back to testing some other AV's even purchased a few, but due to resouces want to go back to NOD32, but with peace of mind that maybe NOD32 isn't just hype. Thanks k
  3. Vampirefo
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    Vampirefo Guest

    NOD 32, does only good on one test, that is the VB test, I don't care for the test myself. NOD 32 is all hype, until it can compete with the big boys, on all tests, not just one VB.

    If NOD 32 was more than just hype, you would see it kicking behind, on all tests, but do you? of course not. You see NOD 32's behind being kicked, NOD 32 could be a good product, and maybe in the future it will be, but not at this time.

    When you see NOD 32 coming in the top 5 on all AV tests, Like McAfee, KAV, AVK, and so forth, then NOD 32 is no longer hype. VB results should be taking with a grain of salt, had the test been great as NOD 32 claims, NOD 32 would clean up on every AV test out there, they don't.

    The author gears NOD 32 toward passing an easy test which is VB, That would be OK, for a few tests, but you must have higher goals, and not be afraid to compete with the big boys, on all AV tests.
  4. Straight Shooter
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    Straight Shooter Guest

    I asked them whether or not they will be able with the new version to do better than this, and unless I missed their answer, I haven't heard yet.


    Admin Note: When posting quotes or objects from other sites you should always provide a link back to the source, both for the sake of "fair use", as well as to provide reference for other readers. - LWM

    Link to source:
    http://www.rokop-security.de/main/article.php?sid=494

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  5. Grazi
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    Grazi Guest

    - Removed personalized remarks regarding the other poster. Please post regarding the topic and not about the people posting. Thanks! - LWM


    I have read much of your rants against NOD32 today, on this forum and others. You are poorly informed regarding testing, if you think Virus Bulletin is the only tester to acclaim NOD32. I call to your attention the summary from PC Magazine May 2003 issue, translated from Spanish; "Eset NOD32 can be in a small amount daunting for novice users, but it is by a long distance the best choice of anti-virus for power users."

    I am at this present time engaged in a comprehensive testing of many (15-20) anti-virus programs for my government's next year of license, and with +90% of testing completed, NOD32 is my currently first choice. (Yes, I am a REAL "Security Expert".)

    You will advise me that the big boys like McAfee, KAV, AVK, and so forth, are superior in detection?

    Pah!

    - Other personalized remarks removed - LWM

    Virus Bulletin deserves its desirable reputation in security circles of being the global leader in honest and factual anti-virus testing, and I am always interested in its test results. I am never interested in results from the tests of GEGA-IT, with its undesirable reputation in security circles of amazingly always having in its possession many of mysterious undetected zoo viruses that no-one else has ever seen.

    NOD32 is the only anti-virus which so far in testing has missed no viruses from MY collection, and it exhibits the smallest impact on our testing network of all tested. I will prefer to rely upon my own clinical test results and the unemotional advice of known and trusted experts in security circles... - Other personalized remarks removed - LWM

    Whether or not I recommend NOD32 to my government remains to be seen, but my decision will not be influenced by you, neither should anyone else's decision be influenced by you.

    It is YOUR ADVICE that should be taken with a grain of salt.

    Dr. Graciella Calvera
    República Oriental del Uruguay
  6. Grazi
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    Grazi Guest

    What is "this"?

    Without knowing what viruses were tested, the graph is meaningless.

    Dr. Graciella Calvera
    República Oriental del Uruguay
  7. mrtwolman
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    mrtwolman Eset Staff Account

    In my personal opinion, the tests published by Gega IT sometimes show some really strange results. Just compare the results of NOD32 in some tests performed by Gega IT (especially in bat, script viruses) where result was once on about 87,5 pec cent and the latest test from german Pc welt (http://www.pcwelt.de/ratgeber/viren/29660/, done by the very same Gega IT and the same Andreas Marx where the result in the same filed is at once on 2 (TWO) per cent.
    This is a really indepentent smell of Cnet, what do you think ?

    Anyway, there are rumorz, Andreas Marx offers for a lumpsum "independent" test with results "as you wish".... I can tell you, with my experiences in the field of antirus system testing, with some effort I can produce doctored test sets where result would be as your request.

    I personally do not care about zoo viruses which are very unlikely to attack my 'puters. But singe i am using nod32, i had for ages no virus incident which is what counts. Any other opinion...

    I am waiting for ESEt guys comments and ESET posotionm to this issue
  8. Straight Shooter
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    Straight Shooter Guest

    Dr...

    The chart is from Rokop Security and it shows the strength of unpackers in antivirus software. If you are a regular at WIlders, you'd know...Besides I am a NOd32 user, and I did not post this as a harsh question. ESET is improving its unpackers, I just wanted to know. I don't even have to explain myself to you... To be honest with you, I don't even believe you are who you say you are. Wha are you calling a graph meaningless for, "Dr"...
    last sentence removed by FanJ
  9. LowWaterMark
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    LowWaterMark Administrator

    Admin note to all participants in this thread:

    This type of topic almost always leads to heated discussions, especially when people's opinions vary so greatly about a product, as they do with NOD32.

    Too often the posting turns personal, and people start commenting about the posters and not about the topic. Let's try to resist doing that in this thread.

    Stay on topic and don't let it get personal. Also, posting verifiable facts if you have them would be preferable. And rumors are best left out entirely.
  10. illukKA
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    illukKA Guest

    HEY
    i'm beginning to be a little worried about our friend Vampirefo... he seems to be so badly infected with mcafeitis!

    quote from surgeon general:" mcafeitis is a disease that causes the infected victim to loudly appraise mcafee products at different bulletin boards.. so far there's no cure, but distant reports from a certain mr straight shooter indicate that uninstalling the software could cause the infected victim to come to senses" :D
  11. Vampirefo
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    Vampirefo Guest

    A link would be nice, also seeing no other NOD 32 users is praising the results, I bet they don't show NOD as champ do they? please provide a link.

    After reading your post again, even you admitted NOD 32 did poorly on the test by PC Magazine May 2003, So rather then post the results, you quote a line an author wrote about NOD 32.

    See anyone can read between the lines, had NOD 32 done well or came out on top, you would, have posted a link, and the results, not quote a small one liner, by some one.
  12. krazykidjoe
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    krazykidjoe Guest

    I'm sorry if this thread got out of hand. I'm in no way bashing NOD32 as I have tested many products and always come back to NOD32, not only for it's virus detection, but the great support here and also from Jan. I can email Jan and have a reply within hours. That is above and beyond great customer service. I just want to be sure that my data is being protected by the best av..
  13. Kay Tiger
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    Kay Tiger Guest

    Hi there,

    I do not know an other organisation which performs more (anti-) virus tests than the University of Magdeburg / GEGA-IT performs ( http://www.av-test.org ).

    If you look at "Publications" at their web site, you'll find an amazing high number of tests (however, I don't know why the "Test" section was not updated for quite some time anymore). This really looks like the Who's'Who of the security industry AND they are also performing tests and reviews for Virus Bulletin! See "References, Papers"!

    And the most current test (from Antivirus.About.com) is really interesting:

    http://antivirus.about.com/library/reviews/winscan/aabybavwin.htm
    Before You Buy Antivirus Software for the Home

    -- Kay Tiger
  14. JacK
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    JacK Registered Member

    Hello,

    Rumoring Andreas Marx could be bought is mere calumny, he is IMHO one of the best experts in the world about virus/trojans detection and uncorruptible :cool:

    The result of his test is similar to VB : 100 % ITW for NOD32.

    ESET never claims to detect all trojans and other malwares.

    NOD32 performs what it claims : perfect and utra-fast detection of all virus ITW with low resources consumption.

    If you don't like it, leave it, it's that simple :D

    AFM, I do trust it and till now was never deceived : it exactly performs the job for which I use it flawlessly.

    Rgds,
  15. mrtwolman
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    mrtwolman Eset Staff Account

    Well, now my 5 cents (again). I am speaking about test available online on http://www.pcwelt.de/ratgeber/viren/29660/10.html (this is page 10/16). On page 4/16 (http://www.pcwelt.de/ratgeber/viren/29660/4.html) there is stated:
    In english: Performance test performed for us Guido Habicht and Andreas Marx. Both are working for Universität Magdeburg and Gega IT-Solutions....

    Well this seems be a good and fair test on the first view. But... I know performance of NOD32 on script viruses and bat viruses. IMHO, this is quit okay... but read this ...

    Scanner almost completly failed when searching for script viruses in batch files. Here it discovered only about 2 per cent of 382 viruses....


    again quote from test:

    Bad: NOd32 produces lot of false alarms ..... Well have your ever experienced false alarm ? I did, but on very large test set .... Which is not very likely to occur in small test set....

    But the best is only about to come. Final words of the test:
    Translated: Nod32 is suitable for slover computers , which one will protect agains most widespread viruses. There is not too much else which could (NOD32) offer....

    There must be something wrong with this test, or am i wrong ?
  16. wizard
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    wizard Registered Member

    Welcome to the wonderfull world of PC magazines. These tests and reviews were in the past and are still not trustable. Even when Andreas Marx provided the figures the editor is normally the guy who has to interpret theses figures. That means the test figures can be provided by an expert but if the person who has to interpret theses figures has no clue what this is all about the result can only be rubbish. I've seen that so many times in the past in all kinds of German PC magazines.

    I know there is a stupid batch malware generator available but ITW I have not seen so far a VBS script inside a batch file. Don't thinkt that this is really a big deal and should be picked out for a negative example.

    I don't think that false alarms are a problem to NOD32 but again this is how you define false positives: NOD32 has a heuristic feature that you cannot disable. So if you count all files that are detected that are reported as possible viruses by the heuristic it would score more false positives than a program without (or with a disabled) heuristic.

    As I said in the beginning: If the person who interpret the results has no clue what he is talking about than the result can only be crap. PC Welt editor's for sure have a long history in not knowing anything about malware and virus protection...

    No you are right. :)

    wizard
  17. Grazi
    Online

    Grazi Guest

    I admitted nothing of the sort.

    English is not my native language, but I feel certain that my translation "Eset NOD32 can be in a small amount daunting for novice users, but it is by a long distance the best choice of anti-virus for power users." will not impart anything remotely like "you admitted NOD 32 did poorly on the test by PC Magazine May 2003." to anyone who understands basic English.

    It is not possible for me to post a link to a printed magazine. The article may be on-line. I have no idea. Try using a search engine.

    Responding will be pointless. I will not return to this forum.

    Dr. Graciella Calvera
    República Oriental del Uruguay
  18. Grazi
    Online

    Grazi Guest

    I asked "Vampirefo" to post his or her credentials, what made him or her a "Security Expert", and why he or she has such an obsessive hatred of NOD32.

    You took it upon yourself as "Administrator" to delete my questions before they were answered.

    You are not interested in truth and honesty. With that one single stroke you have "administrated" me right out of this forum.

    I will not be back.

    Dr. Graciella Calvera
    República Oriental del Uruguay
  19. Grazi
    Online

    Grazi Guest


    I am not a regular at Wilders, and after having my questions interfered with without due cause I will never be such, I did not know the chart is from Rokop Security. How could I know this when you did not attribute it until much later, when you edited your post? It could have pertained to the Chilean wheat crop, for all I knew.

    You can believe I hold a doctorate or not, whatever you wish, it matters not to me, and it will change nothing in my life.

    Your belligerent and adversarial attitude does not impress me, by the way, but it matters not. I will not return to this forum. Your Administrator's overbearing protectiveness of his pet "Vampirefo" has driven me away after only 2 visits.

    Dr. Graciella Calvera
    República Oriental del Uruguay
  20. Paul Wilders
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    Paul Wilders Administrator

    Mr. Calvera,

    Our mods are doing their upmost to make sure threads and post are on topic only - and they are doing a fine job, in this thread as well. No member is considered a "pet" over on this board. Asking for personal and private credentials are rather off topic, no matter whom concerns.

    All,

    There's nothing wrong in discussing NOD32 - that's what these forums are all about, as long is it's factual. Personal bickering on the other hand is off limits.

    Thus, please stay on topic, and refrain from personal issues and other non-relevant posts and remarks.

    regards.

    paul
  21. jmschwartz
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    jmschwartz Guest

    Hello,

    I like NOD32. I have tried many other programs, and I came back to NOD32 today to renew my previous license. Thanks to the NOD 32 team for such an effective software program.

    Regards,
    Dr. Jim Schwartz

    PS: Graciella might just be a woman's name? Comprendes?
  22. rodzilla
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    rodzilla Registered Member

    > Does NOD32 Personnel Agree With (Virus Test by GEGA IT-Solutions)??

    I agree with their detection rating of 100% in In the Wild viruses, but not with their detection rating of 2% of .bat viruses.

    They need to get their test set in order if they expect their tests to be taken seriously by the antivirus industry.

    > I have been a faithful user of NOD32 and have now went back to testing some other AV's even purchased a few, but due to resouces want to go back to NOD32, but with peace of mind that maybe NOD32 isn't just hype.

    My advice ... go back to NOD32. Grab a copy of v2 Beta5. It's the antivirus of the future. (No hype!) :)
  23. rodzilla
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    rodzilla Registered Member

    > NOD 32, does only good on one test, that is the VB test, I don't care for the test myself. NOD 32 is all hype, until it can compete with the big boys, on all tests, not just one VB.

    I guess the fact that NOD32 has been named "Best Antivirus of 2001/2002/2003" by various other testers must have escaped your attention.

    > If NOD 32 was more than just hype, you would see it kicking behind, on all tests, but do you? of course not. You see NOD 32's behind being kicked, NOD 32 could be a good product, and maybe in the future it will be, but not at this time.

    You see NOD 32's behind being kicked by who ... and in which reputable tests ?

    > When you see NOD 32 coming in the top 5 on all AV tests, Like McAfee, KAV, AVK, and so forth, then NOD 32 is no longer hype. VB results should be taking with a grain of salt, had the test been great as NOD 32 claims, NOD 32 would clean up on every AV test out there, they don't.

    NOD32 clean sweeps Virus Bulletin tests with monotonous regularity ... and regardless of whether you care for it or not, the VB100 is the most sought after award in the antivirus industry ... the one every antivirus vendor wants to win.

    > The author gears NOD 32 toward passing an easy test which is VB, That would be OK, for a few tests, but you must have higher goals, and not be afraid to compete with the big boys, on all AV tests.

    Hahahahahahaha! Tell me, Mister Security Expert ... if the Virus Bulletin test is so "easy", why do so many of the "big boys" fail to pass it so often ?

    =====

    My one and only rule here is "Don't use the forum to trash other antivirus programs."

    In your case I'll extend it to "Don't use the forum to trash NOD32 unless you know what you're talking about." ... because you don't know what you're talking about!

    Come back and see us again when you have some facts to back up your codswallop!

    =====
  24. rodzilla
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    rodzilla Registered Member

    > In my personal opinion, the tests published by Gega IT sometimes show some really strange results.

    Extremely strange results!

    > Just compare the results of NOD32 in some tests performed by Gega IT (especially in bat, script viruses) where result was once on about 87,5 pec cent and the latest test from german Pc welt (http://www.pcwelt.de/ratgeber/viren/29660/, done by the very same Gega IT and the same Andreas Marx where the result in the same filed is at once on 2 (TWO) per cent.

    This has not escaped our attention.

    GEGA IT's test set needs an overhaul by someone who knows what they're looking at. Anyone who expects respect as an antivirus tester from the antivirus industry itself must adhere to a proper testing methodology and test products only against validated and verified viruses. There is no place in antivirus product testing for simulated/broken/renamed/inert or otherwise "dead" viruses. To a real antivirus man, it's either a virus or it's not. There are no grey areas.

    > This is a really indepentent smell of Cnet, what do you think ?

    Eeeek! No comment! :)

    > Anyway, there are rumorz, Andreas Marx offers for a lumpsum "independent" test with results "as you wish"....

    I've heard the same rumors ... but that's all they are ... just rumors.

    It's no secret that I haven't regarded Magdeburg/GEGA IT's tests very highly for many years, but this is based on my doubts about the validity of their testing methodology, not concerns about their honesty.

    I doubt that Andreas would try to "sell" a favorable test result to a vendor. There are very few secrets in the antivirus industry, and if he had ever offered to do this, everyone would know about it.

    "Careless" ... OK ... I'll accept that.

    "Dishonest" ... no, I don't believe it.

    > I can tell you, with my experiences in the field of antirus system testing, with some effort I can produce doctored test sets where result would be as your request.

    Sure ... it can be done. I have no doubt that it has been done. However, no ethical antivirus vendor (yes, there are a few) :) would be a party to this kind of snake oil.

    I don't think that even the shonky test figures posted by the antivirus wannabes who haunt security forums are deliberately doctored to make a particular product look good ... I think they're simply the result of amateurish testing procedures on what we refer to in the antivirus industry as "crud" virus collections.

    Some years ago, when there were only around 15000 known viruses, I scoured the fledgeling Internet and downloaded over 55000 samples from various VX sites ... all "tested and guaranteed to be real live viruses". After eliminating duplicates with Frans Veldman's TbWeeder and running them through ThunderByte I ended up with just over 4000 live virus samples. Over 35000 of the "guaranteed real live viruses" were "crud".

    Q. Where does a wannabe virus expert who has no access to a verified virus test set get his viruses ?

    A. From VX sites!

    I rest my case! :) :) :)

    > I personally do not care about zoo viruses which are very unlikely to attack my 'puters. But singe i am using nod32, i had for ages no virus incident which is what counts. Any other opinion...

    Between January 2003 and March 2003, every one of the more than three million viruses intercepted by MessageLabs in transit across the Internet was an In the Wild virus. No Zoo viruses were detected. That's a pretty high ration of ItW:Zoo. :)

    > I am waiting for ESEt guys comments and ESET posotionm to this issue

    We're not sitting on our hands. We've had a lot of internal discussion, and moves are being made even as I type this reply. Anton (our beloved CEO) will no doubt make a public statement about it once we get everything sorted out.
  25. rodzilla
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    rodzilla Registered Member

    > A link would be nice, also seeing no other NOD 32 users is praising the results, I bet they don't show NOD as champ do they? please provide a link.

    http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,978452,00.asp (in English)

    > After reading your post again, even you admitted NOD 32 did poorly on the test by PC Magazine May 2003,

    I must have missed that part.

    > See anyone can read between the lines, had NOD 32 done well or came out on top, you would, have posted a link, and the results, not quote a small one liner, by some one.

    "NOD32 offers blazing speed and rock-solid virus protection that make it best for experts but not an ideal choice for beginners" says it all.

    In view of your choice of antivirus program, the next logical step for you is to change your tag to "Security Beginner".
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