Best AV, Schmest AV!

Just pick a couple good security products, add a hardware firewall, relax and be happy. Life is too short to sit around worrying if there is a trojan around the next corner .

You don't need to license 10 security products to have a protected PC.

 

Rich, Yes, all these is important, but being technically proficient is the most basic requirement of all, without which, it is all for naught.

As for your other remarks, it's pretty obvious that one would never dream of saying 'harden your OS' to a newbie, but here among relatively skilled users, such terms can be thrown about freely with a high possibilty of both sides knowing what is being specified to a high level of accuracy.

And again, if you only have a vague idea of what is meant by this, don't by shy to ask.

Common sense appears to be a catchall term for a common pool of basic computer practises that all experienced computer users acquire. Some of which you have already listed. Though , there is obviously some room for debate, by and large most of the principles and practices are not disputed.

Admittedly, the knowledge is not as "common" as hoped, though it should be, at least around these parts.

There is some judgement involved, I suppose, since people might dispute over whether a site is a porn site or not

Your list is fine for a complete newbie, but a higher skilled user might add a few qualifers to your list. For example not all attachments are as dangerous as others, the difference between an expected email and one not expected.

And so it goes.

It is not perfectly defined as you can see, and some people have higher degrees of knowledge (Do you use a hex editor to look at a file first?) but it's relatively trival to look at someone's behavior and conclude with a high level of agreement whether he has "common sense" or not.

Someone opening an unexpected exe file from someone unknown could easily be classified as lacking 'common sense', or basic computer security knowledge or he just doesn't care.

Anyone who lacks even the basic knowledge on how to protect himself is doomed for failure, regardless of the software he uses.

The basic knowledge has to be there before adding security software. Unfortunately, there's a much easier tendency to blame software for failing to protect one's computer (Norton sucks etc.), then to admit one's own responsibility for the failure.

 

Hello all


Here is one thing I mentioned here before & is a fact.
Before 911, Most state run agencies IT people), those that housed social workers didn't even keep their AV Defs up to date. Then when their workers computers got infected they were blaming the poor workers. After 911, the gov started cracking down and wanted to make sure gov info was being
guarded. What did they do? well they installed computer minitoring programs on their workers. Most of the infections came by way of e-mail.
What I also found the the young punk IT personal didn't want to listen to sdvice given to them by the workers , whci some of the workers got from people like myself. Some of these It personal even took care of the olice computers at the same time. Now that is one scarry thought isn't it?
Like many of the AV gurus will tell you, All that is needed is to change an entry point or some other file altering way in order to evade AV's.
Drive by downloads are becomming more sinister. P2P downloads are so very popular & are infecting millions all the time.
I do think public computers should be controled with software such as Microsofts shared computer toolkit.
and it sure doesn't hurt to have it on home computers along with other protection such as PG set to never allow new drivers ect. I think PG still needs some tweaking to make it more user friendly to common home users.
CD bootable Os's are nice but you have to resetup everything everytime you boot. Such as knoppix. I have used it and like it.
Windows rootkits are the future for right now without alot of solutions.
it is nice to see so many now using imaging software.

controler

 

What is your current setup? And would you equip a noobie differently than yourself?

 

Can you be more specific? Which two security products would you recommend? And which hardware firewall? "Good" is very subjective and my guess is that it is possible to find a group of people who would consider any given security product as being "good". This would imply just choosing any two security products which I don't think is your intention (but I could be wrong). Thanks.

Rich

 

Good is relative as well. For me, I want the lightest and lowest footprint AV's possible on my personal machines. Not because my machines are slow - quite the opposite, all of my machines are 3Ghz or higher. I just don't like conflicts or products that increase drag.

My security consists of SMC Barricade SPI Hardware Firewall, Dr.Web or VBA32, and Safe'n'Sec+AV.

On noOb machines I setup, I install GDATA AVK(KAV and BitDefender engines on) and Safe'n'Sec (non-av, set to trusting). I've yet to have to find any threats on any of the hundreds i've setup this way - and prior to this - these were infested.

I also install, and encourage the switch to Firefox, which helps fend off a majority of infestation issues.

 

Thanks SDS909 for the additional info.

Rich

 

I only agree with this statement if it is qualified. i agree if the statement is worded this way:

"It is not perfectly defined as you can see, and some people have higher degrees of knowledge (Do you use a hex editor to look at a file first?) but it's relatively trival to look at someone's behavior and conclude with a high level of agreement whether he has "common sense" or not, IN MY OPINION."


A extremely high percentage of the statements that I read on this board appear to be nothing more than a relative opinion. Time appears relative and if you add that to the equation, for someone that lived in the time of Jesus Christ, it might not be "common sense" to be afraid of someone having a loaded gun pointed at them because it was not in their framework of knowledge to know what a gun is at that period in earth's history.

Just as today...there are some that don't know what trojans, viruses, keyloggers, spyware are and if you go out into the jungles of Borneo, the people there might not know or care but then again some of the inhabitants of Borneo might be able to survive out in the jungle for a lot longer period of time than anyone on this board. Do I lack commonsense for not being able to survive in the jungle? From my relative point of view, "I don't think I could survive in the jungle long" but I do think I lack the knowledge on how to keep myself alive.

In my opinion, a word like common sense is meaningless. What does have meaning is levels of knowledge. There may be in this seemingly infinite universe the possibility that someone with limited or unlimited knowledge (and everything in between) that might require ten different security softwares at a given point in time and knowledge.

I used to think I had all the answers at one point in my life but then again, I learned over time that there is simply too many variables for me to accurately predict a situation 100% of the time.

To me...Common sense appears to be only common in the mind of the beholder. In my opinion, it is best for everyone to seek the best solution for them considering all of the factors that they consider important to them.



Starrob

 

Hi Starrob,

Yes, I agree. Rather than to tell someone to use commonsense, I suggest specific advice that are actionable and can be reviewed by others as well as tested. "Commonsense" is not specific, it is not actionable, it cannot be reviewed or commented on, and it certainly cannot be tested. What's more, what is considered "commonsense", as you pointed out, changes from place to place, moment to moment, as new information is gathered.

As for expert knowledge, technical knowledge is useless, if it is not applied and communicated correctly. Technical expertise is just one aspect among other equal aspects. If it is not communicated and applied to a specific problem in the correct way, then it not only is useless, it can be quite harmful. That's commonsense.

Cya,
Rich

 

Hi,
The biggest problem with people is the gap between mental and physical abilites. Anyone can buy a computer. But you need no qualification whatsoever to use it. Internet driving has so many unlicenced drivers out there, people who do not even know how to properly reboot, and yet, they surf and donwload things and use p2p and then they wonder what's wrong.
Common sense should be teaching people how to use their computers. 99% of people are virtually computer illiterate. They have the ignorant sort of common sense, which says I'll click anyway, what can happen.
I cannot understand how can someone surf and not even know what a trojan horse is. That's like driving and not knowing what a stop sign is.
That's my speech for the moment.
Mrk

 

Hi Mrk,

PCs are marketed as such (very easy to use) - and people believe it. Unfortuntately, we all go through these "learning lessons" in life. However, within a short time, I think people begin to realize the difficulties and seek solutions. Very similar to buying and owning a house.

Cya,
Rich

 

Starrob, what possible relevance is this?

This is a security forum, not a philosophy forum for you to push your Relativism on the rest of us.

For some who believes that there is nothing but opinions, you sure like to rebuke everyone and push your opinions on others.

 

So says one who doesn't have any techical expertise.

 

I only make comments like everyone else. I don't push my opinions on anybody. Whether someone believes I push my opinions is in the mind of the beholder.

This is a security forum and to me security appears to be very much a philosophy. There are many different philosphies on how to secure computers on this board and I make comments like everyone else.

Some accept my comments. Others reject my comments and others are neutral. It is up to the individual.

One belief that I do have is that everyone should be able to decide what security that they want on their own computers. Some disagree with this notion....like possibly Microsoft. Sometimes, I read about things that are disturbing to me concerning Longhorn....like possibly Microsoft and/or partners wanting to control more of what is on my computer.

I am not sure if this is true or not. We will have to see when Longhorn comes out.



Starrob

 

As an ordinary PC user (with admittedly some extra computer background in my career), I need to determine for myself whose advice to investigate. Usually, when I look for advice, I take the demeanor and approch of the advisor quite seriously. For example, (and just as an example), I am always quite interested in Starrob's comments (among many others on this forum) because I understand his approach and he is quite clear on what he is trying to say (at least from my perspective) and - he is never condescending. This is important to me when evaluating advice.

Rich

 

I only make comments like everyone else. I don't push my opinions on anybody. Whether someone believes I push my opinions is in the mind of the beholder.

 

Are you shocked to know that Starrob thinks you are far more wrong (70%-80%) than you are right?

 

No, I am not surprised. 20 - 30% agreement in this world is pretty good. Better than I have with most of my friends. However, since you are speaking for Starrob, (probably based on confidential discussions) and he is not speaking for himself, I will leave it at that. "Wrong" and "right" are extremely subjective.

As I said, I choose who I listen to. This does not mean I blindly follow any one person's advice or preference. I take a little from here ... and I take a little from there ... and that is how I develop my own preferences. As I said demeanoer is one quality I look for. But there are lots of people on this forum who have very nice demeanors and still can disagree. There are many things that Starrob does that I do not do. And that is the way the world turns.

BTW, I am sure that Starrob is pleased that you are now speaking on his behalf.

 

If and when I need more security advice richrf is probably one of those I will seek out. The reason being ,that as one of the illiterate great unwashed horde out there, I know that I can ask what might seem like the dummest question and not get a condesending answer or a quick dismissal. I have learned a lot reading his posts and he does not seem overly impressed with himself.

 

Well, I would comment but I have to leave this debate. It is my last day in Singapore. I have to go out and have some fun in the real world before I leave.

Maybe I'll flip a coin and decide to comment when I get home or maybe not....LOL...I don't take all this as seriously as some people. I only take computer security seriously when it comes to my own computer. I leave it to others to decide what they want to do.....Bye until I hit the USA!!!


Starrob leaving Singapore