You tell me why not Returnil and nothing else

Discussion in 'sandboxing & virtualization' started by trjam, Dec 8, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Posts:
    9,057
    Location:
    North Carolina
    Ask yourself. In the last 3 years, just how many times did you get infected. Not you hard core folks but just everyday users. For me, it is once. One time and I have spent hundreds of dollars on products to detect one trojan.:doubt:

    Something just doesnt make sense. I have spent the last week really trying to read into threads posted here about malware and detection and protection. I really dont think it is as prevalent as some want you to think. And a lot of it is basically harmless. Yes there are some nasties that can take you down, but really, the chance of popping one is like being struck by lightning.

    AVs are really only half protection, that is the truth. And for most, that half may keep you so called secure for years. Why? Because the product was soooo good, or, because you did not go somewhere that allowed you to get infected. When was it your fault?

    I dont know. But I feel products like Returnil and ShadowDefender are really all you need. I like Returnil and hope to see it further developed. But I honestly feel all the other security products are nothing more then hysteria hype. Do as you feel but I am finsihed wasting money for protection I dont need based on my habits. A simple reboot and I am fine. Malware hysteria. Malware hysteria. Malware hysteria. Got to have a job, dont you.;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2008
  2. Nightwalker

    Nightwalker Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Posts:
    784
    Re: You tell me why Returnil and nothing else

    Yeah i think virtualization is the way to go. I use Shadow Defender in my old pc and it runs fine with no slowndows at all * fell secure* like you said a reboot and all is gone. No antivirus can protect us in this way.

    OffTopic
    trjam , maybe Avira tomorrow or Eset , maybe Shadow Defender or it could be Prevx Edge ? :argh:
     
  3. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Posts:
    9,057
    Location:
    North Carolina
    maybe Returnil and that is it. Going take a vacation from here for awhile. Bye.
     
  4. Nightwalker

    Nightwalker Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2008
    Posts:
    784
    I expect your return to Wilders good vacation ... I was not criticizing you ,it was just a joke I know you Jeff a long time ago here in Wilders. Someday i expect to only use Shadow Defender and enjoy my computer with peace of mind:thumb:
     
  5. Threedog

    Threedog Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2005
    Posts:
    1,125
    Location:
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    I still like to have something that is good at detecting when you have caught something. Cleanup doesn't matter to me as a simple reboot takes care of that.
     
  6. andyman35

    andyman35 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2007
    Posts:
    2,336
    Returnil is fantastic at ensuring you start up each time with a clean,malware-free slate.However it offers no protection against malware infection during a single session,so keyloggers or password/data harvesting ,etc. are the risks you run.
     
  7. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Posts:
    4,219
    I couldn't agree more, and have adopted this strategy for a few years now(ShadowUser on my XP laptop, ShadowDefender on Vista). In my experience what has been a real waste of time was the energy I have invested in HIPS and trying to rationalize their function/usefulness: A good tool for people interested in controlling the inner processes of their computer. I personally will never use them again.

    A virtualizer + a reliable imaging program is all one needs. I do have an AV at the moment to test flashdrives plugged into my computer, and I must admit it adds to my peace of mind.
     
  8. glentrino2duo

    glentrino2duo Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Posts:
    310
    I use Returnil to protect my system drive (C:) and SandboxIE to protect all my other drives...

    So, for me, it's Returnil+SandboxIE and nothing else...

    Well, okay, F-Prot has always been there (organization policy requires it, but it's so light I barely notice it) and DRWeb CureIt occasionally just to make myself feel better... and nothing else... really... :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2008
  9. NAMOR

    NAMOR Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Posts:
    1,526
    Location:
    Arkham Asylum
    What happens if you get a PW stealing nasty and log into you bank account before killing your currect returnil session?
     
  10. Franklin

    Franklin Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2005
    Posts:
    2,517
    Location:
    West Aussie
    That's where a hardened sandbox where nothing can run and or connect out from within a sandboxed session except what's allowed compliments Returnil nicely.
     
  11. farmerlee

    farmerlee Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Posts:
    2,585
    From what i've read its possible that a piece of malware could bypass returnil. I've seen it done with other virtualization software however i reckon it would definitely be a rare event that this would happen in the wild.
    But if you enable returnil's anti-execute and driver protection then i'd say you're fairly well covered.
     
  12. farmerlee

    farmerlee Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2006
    Posts:
    2,585
    Thats where common sense comes into play. If you want to log into your bank do it first thing after a reboot not after surfing the dark side of the web.
     
  13. Saraceno

    Saraceno Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
    Posts:
    2,404
    Returnil or Shadow Defender, plus sandboxie to prevent anything staying/lurking on your system between re-boots, plus a free AV such as Avira or Avast to scan the files you want to keep.

    Returnil, sandboxie, Avira/Avast!
    or
    Shadow Defender, sandboxie, Avira/Avast!

    = :)
     
  14. glentrino2duo

    glentrino2duo Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2006
    Posts:
    310
    ...and a good imaging software... :)
     
  15. chris2busy

    chris2busy Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Posts:
    477
    You have been there before,about 5 times mate..Do not ask me about the hundrends of $ u spent,i see no sense in that,taking into consideration that the top notch are free(including the one you use here).I'm good with just LUA+SRP(OS built in)+OA(free version)+sandboxie(free also) and i get the protection that not even 200$ can give me.I just come here to keep myself informed so i can remove-add-change combos ONLY when something more convenient comes out that better fits my online personality(habits,behaviour,morality e.t.c) and looks like ur beggining to get an online identity too.well done(but if you ask me you didn't have to post it in here)..
    Security is more about sense..uhm..more like the opposite of american defence systems :D "last year 10 man died of terrorism actions and 2 million from heart deseases.good so next year we will build another 10 gazillion worth military bases".

    P.S if you are gonna play more bare bone,try updating your router firmware more often,maintenance is more essencial with less layers
     
  16. NAMOR

    NAMOR Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Posts:
    1,526
    Location:
    Arkham Asylum
    That was the point to my question. :) I just didn't phrase the question too well...


    This method may be fine for my personal laptop but, the family computer would be getting ALOT of reboot action. :D I think adding sandboxie or defensewall to a returnil or shadow defender setup would be the way to go.
     
  17. Taliscicero

    Taliscicero Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Posts:
    1,439

    Trjam, The guy who changes his security products like a drunk wise man changes his stories, i do however find him funny, and also believe virtualization is good.
     
  18. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Posts:
    2,295
    Location:
    Cromwell Country
    So do I get in trouble for saying the same thing for the last few years ? I have almost forgotten what AV/AS firewall software and HIP programs look like.

    My preference is for shadow defender but otherwise I agree with trjam or he agrees with me ?
     
  19. Dark Shadow

    Dark Shadow Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Posts:
    4,553
    Location:
    USA
    I look at this way. Returnil,Shadow Defender will hypothetically keep you clean 100 percent if nothing defeats either program.Keeping in mind everthing you do theretically is on your machine until rebooted,Hence if you pickup any variants along the way they remain there prior to a reboot is performed,So lets say your system is up for days running while something of a more seroius nature lurks on your machine,would you trust this entirely,How would you know its there.Then there is committing changes to a system,How to verify files are clean even if a simple window updates was tainted though not likely, How does one keep these changes not known if there clean or not.IMO its better to at least keep a OD scan handy for files in question to keep or not and besides all the top tier Antivirus would produce much better results RT or OD then a 5o percent.If your never going to update or download or No purchase transactions or banking and the like and reboot often, I would say perhaps returnil or SD all is needed.Just something to consider and think about.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2008
  20. jmonge

    jmonge Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2008
    Posts:
    12,883
    Location:
    Canada
    good idea;) very simple and secure:thumb:
     
  21. NAMOR

    NAMOR Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2004
    Posts:
    1,526
    Location:
    Arkham Asylum
    I haven't had an AV installed on my main computer for about a month now. Currently, I'm running a shadowdefender/sandboxie setup. After surfing various sites I kill my web browser and delete the sandbox before I start a session for banking, etc. For me, this seemed as a more viable solution than rebooting my computer before each banking session. I tend to leave my computer on for days... When I download programs from the internet I usually use cureit or an online scanner to check if the file is ok, if i am not sure myself.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2008
  22. twl845

    twl845 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2005
    Posts:
    4,186
    Location:
    USA
    Would you say that Returnil and Shadow Defender are basically doing the same thing the same way? I am now using Returnil home version, and just checked out the Shadow Defender home page. It seems to be simple enough to navigate. Why did you choose SD over Returnil? Thanks for your response in advance. :)
     
  23. idbit

    idbit Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2008
    Posts:
    43
    Location:
    Florida
    I'm so disillusioned... :(
     
  24. Dark Shadow

    Dark Shadow Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Posts:
    4,553
    Location:
    USA
    Your soultion is perfect IMO,Especially sandboxie that does not require a reboot to trash is contents,with strict internet access and shadow defender just to back it up and the scans if unsure cover all the bases.:thumb:
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2008
  25. chrome_sturmen

    chrome_sturmen Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Posts:
    785
    Location:
    Sverige
    There's one reason I prefer storage craft's shadow server over all other virtualization apps - the ability to continue a shadow session after reboot, ending it only when you want to (with the option to commit changes upon exiting):thumb:

    Snap1.jpg
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.