Would you trust Process Guard?

Discussion in 'other security issues & news' started by Just wondering, Jan 27, 2005.

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  1. Okay...Now that I have your attention.
    Would any of you, use just one product, to base your total bottom line defence?

    I've been following Deep Freeze experiences thread in the Other Security Issues section.
    The thread starter, Gerand is going to be writing an article: that by just using Deep Freeze, and one other security product i.e. Freeze X or Process Guard that will be enough for all your computer security needs.
    The way I read it....the key to the issue is that the real bottom line is FreezeX. Then if that is true....all you would really need is Freeze X, and Deep Freeze would be handy/fun option to always have a pristine machine after a reboot.

    What do you think?.....Will it work or not? Your opinions, and why.

    p.s. I do believe Process Guard is a great product, and I will be buying the
    full version when the money flow is right.
    I'm starting a new business, and want to learn how to secure this compter the best I know how, before using this computer for work, and on-line transactions.

    p.s.s. and Deep freeze is a great product for what it is designed to do.
     
  2. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    I am from the old school of a layered security defence so in case one app may be bypassed another can catch it. Putting all of you eggs in one basket has never been a good idea in my opinion

    bigc

    edit== and yes I do trust processguard
     
  3. Yes I too trust Process Guard....thats why I use it....and I willl be buying the full
    license....and also agree that layered protection is needed.

    Please read the section I mentioned....I can see a lot of good ideas.

    Oh I see he added more on since the last time I read it....anti virus and firewall

    I am here to learn, yours and other opinions are valued to me.


    I am so old.....that the only thing I've learned ....is

    that the only sure fire thing is .......THAT THERE IS NO SURE FIRED THING
     
  4. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    you are surely right there

    bigc
     
  5. What I,m looking for.....is a happy compromise between everyday usabilty
    and security....my girlfriend/biz pardner complains I've had this locked down
    so much ....that it was an ordeal to do a simple thing....like to play a game of
    solitare
     
  6. Infinity

    Infinity Registered Member

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    I fully stand Bigc's point of view, to get it right the only way to go is layered security.

    you can have a lot of info by reading this forum. and there are a lot of free utilities available to extend your security.

    Processguard is the most important piece of security on my machine.
     
  7. Pilli

    Pilli Registered Member

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    Hi, I have not tried Deep Freeze or Freeze-X but a quick scan through the thread you mentioned does require me to ask a few questions.

    The program does have Execution Protection but can it be killed by Advanced Process Termination available here: http://www.diamondcs.com.au/index.php?page=apt ? If so then what is there to stop malware from terminating it?

    Does it prevent .dll injection into running processes? If not your computer is at risk whatever security programs are running as they can be circumvented.

    Can it stop service / driver installation even if a .exe is given execution permission to run? Agian if malware can install a driver or service it is game set and match in most cases as you no longer control your computer.

    If the answer to any of these is yes then I believe that ProcessGuard would make a very good addition.

    Pilli
     
  8. rickontheweb

    rickontheweb Registered Member

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    You have to find a balance between security and use, but one that is comfortable for your purposes. I have often found that the people that make complaints like "it's an ordeal to do a simple thing" because of added security aren't often the ones that are called to spend 5 hours reconstructing that infected PC because they won't stop the kids from installing KaZaa or any other executable that happens along. Or even consider that the occasional extra click of the mouse from an added security product will save them years of frustration from dealing with identity theft.

    I personally believe in the layered security model. Your chances are always better in layers that something will trip up an exploit, particularly if no ones layers are all the same. But you will have to find a balance between usability and security or else the security becomes too much of a nuisance and gets turned off.

    There really isn't one stop all product, but that doesn't also mean you need 10 security apps running simultaneously either. Good security choices are seamless and integrated and personalized. The minimum three (in my opinion) is a good firewall (IN and OUT), antivirus and process guard to complement them both with an occasional manual scan of an anti-spyware type app. In my opinion anything less is negligence and asking for trouble. But that's just me. I personally run more, but they are unobtrusive.
     
  9. Notok

    Notok Registered Member

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    Very well put, rickontheweb :)
     
  10. Philli As to how trojans, viri and other assorted maladies that plague mankind
    on the internet work, and the instruments used to fight them...I really have no clue. There just seems to be zillions of them, and more added every day.
    To answer your question....I guess it would be best for you to read their web
    site and read their blurb and what they say Freeze X guards against and how
    it works. I do understand the principle, but alas, Deep Freeze hung up on uninstall and crashed my machine so didnt get a chance to test it much.

    I've been an advocate of firewalls and on-line privacy issues for ages, and when I've mentioned to people they should have a firewall.....all I get is a blank glazed look on their faces ...wondering what planet I've come from.

    I also learned that a person should have a "throw away" email addy such as
    hotmail....and never ...never sign in with your real name for your instant
    messaging or hot mail with your real name ....John or Jane Smith will work
    and you'll usually get what you want....IM used to have you real name on
    top of your IM box...I'm not sure if it still does.

    hmmmm not sure if i have enough room on this to reply more....I'll read your
    replies some for a while
     
  11. Pilli

    Pilli Registered Member

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    I might just do that, visit the site that is :D but I have other software to test at the moment so I'll let somene else do the donkey work ;)
     
  12. he he....must be rough to be de boss
     
  13. Pilli

    Pilli Registered Member

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    Not me, I am not employed by DCS, I am just an enthusiastic user that has the pleasure of moderating the DCS forums as is my colleague Jooske. :D
     
  14. hmmmmm Well it seems like you have a donkey around...I be both junior boss and donkey compared to de big boss....my girlfriend.

    Oh by the way....faronics is offering $500 dollars to anyone who can crack

    Deep Freeze
     
  15. AJohn

    AJohn Registered Member

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    Although I have found Deep Freeze to be an awesome program, I still feel the need to keep most my old security lineup. Tiny Windows Security(I did a custom install) seems to be a great compliment to DF because any changes I accept on a reboot apply to my entire system, if I accept a new installation I may also be accepting a new trojan. I own Process Guard, but am playing around with Tiny right now. I have not tried FreezeX yet, because it doesn't look as customizable. There are constantly new exploits being released and I don't want to risk anything after all the time I have spent trying to 'secure' my system. One thing I have done away with is my anti-spy defense. I find no need to protect against any settings or files done through my browser since they will be cleared on a reboot.

    I also use a good firewall, virus scan, webfilter, and online whitelist database(pcInternetPatrol).
     
  16. gkweb

    gkweb Expert Firewall Tester

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    Hi Ajohn,

    I didn't read at all the DF's website, but with your sentence and the name "Deep freeze" I suppose that DF revert back any modifications at each reboot ?
    If yes, it is a reactive defense and not a proactive one, which generally speaking means that a trojans could infect a computer, send data out, and be removed only later, even worse without the user knowing it.

    So if it is the case, even if in your case it may be a good addition to your existing strong defense (either ProcessGuard or/and Tiny, and AV, and firewall, etc...), I would like to avoid any confusion to anyone reading this thread by highlighting that relying only on DF (or at least on any software working as I suppose above) is not a real security in itself and cannot be used alone.
    First off, as said above a malware can do anything before the next reboot, and secondly, because to "sanitize" your computer, you must reboot (which not is always an option on a production server, so you lost your advantage).

    However if it is not how DF works, then skip my post :)

    regards,
    gkweb.

    EDIT : oh and BTW, like bigc73542 and Ajohn, I prefer to not rely only on a single security product, that it be ProcessGuard (at least a firewall and an AV in addition are necessary).
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2005
  17. Well there is at least one good thing about a crash..when I start over, I know
    my machine is clean, and I get fresh start with demo time of all the security
    products. Before I started lurking here and other forums....I had never heard of...Outpost, LnS, Ewido, Nod32, the Diamondcs line, and many others.
    Of course at first I was leery of them like I am now of Freeze X.
    Now I think I tested most all of them, and in various combos.

    Because I like to feel I am the master of my computer, and not it of me.
    My close to final set-up....not necessarily because they are the best...but within my comfort zone, and my ability to understand them.

    All un-needed services and ports shut down
    Firefox
    Reg protect from diamondcs.....free and in background.
    Ewido....Great updates....ease of use.
    Nod 32 set to Blackspears specs.....slows down my surfing some...but very
    comforting to me to see the "meter running" in the lower right corner.
    Specialty scanners...and on demand backup free scanners.
    And lastly....my two great learning tools.

    Outpost .....seems best out of the box for my needs....but mainly because
    firewalls and I do not seem to get along well, no matter how closely I
    try to follow the instructions to set them up........... I always mess them up. It allows me to have a fresh back to the "drawing board" configuration in
    seconds. I also like the ability to see what is going on in the background.

    Process Guard....Always with rundll set to allow once, and all other programs until I learn what they do.

    Optional for me...or maybe a must have...a go back program....to protect me from myself with my mad scientist experiments on this poor machine.
     
  18. Pilli

    Pilli Registered Member

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    You may like to try "First defenve" from here: http://www.raxco.com Very useful when beta testing as you can switch very quickly to a clean snapshot. I use First Defence when beta testing an Acronis for regular parrtition backups. Nortons' Go-Back and Ghost are also very good.

    Cheers. Pilli
     
  19. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    Was it FreezeX or DeepFreeze that crashed your computer on the un-install?

    Hmm. Thought this thread was about ProcessGuard, but I guess not (very mis-leading title).

    Regardless, my thought is that since FreezeX costs $24.95 (and is relatively new and somewhat - to put it politely - buggy according to this article:
    http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=28878-0 ), I'd have to say that - for $29.95 for a single home user license - ProcessGuard is the much more intelligent choice.

    It's the single program on my computer right now (of all third-party software of course) that I simply will not run without. Pete
     
  20. It was Deep Freeze that hung up on the uninstall.....and it didnt save itself from itself.....so like i said in first part of the link....


    THE ONLY SUREFIRE THING...IS THAT THERE IS NO SUREFIRE THING

    I also mentioned above ....that Gerand has also added on further security guards.


    The intent of thread was to ask...if anyone would place trust in just
    one apt.
     
  21. Pilli

    Pilli Registered Member

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    DCS would certainly never suggest trusting just ProcessGuard as "Just one ap" security :)
    Think of this, you have one application that is your firewall. AV - AT - AS, Reg Guard, Kernel Guard, Internet protector, Restorer and it works.
    Wow! Is that a big target for any hacker / cracker - I bet it would not last more than a week ;)
    Look at the big targets Symantec, MCaFee etc. Their security is being cracked all the time and requires continual patching, almost as bad as windows itself. :)
    I like the lean mean companies that are specialised and produce low resource but effective programs.

    Me, I'll stick to a layered defence thanks. Pilli
     
  22. spy1

    spy1 Registered Member

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    Neither would I trust any ONE app to protect me from everything.

    It seems to me that even the people that CLAIM that can be done are busy covering their hind ends by advising A/V's, firewalls (hardware and/OR software), proxies, SEPARATE HD back-up/imaging programs, and/or glorified registry monitors (which, presumably, you're not supposed to even really need if you're placing your "trust" in some kind of "virtual volume-type" program.

    I run here with NO back-up in place - not even System Restore, much less a disk imaging program. Nor do I have a hardware-type firewall (router). Has that bitten me before? Sure! But not due to malware of any type - it was HD failure that did me in last - before that it was sheer ignorance about some of the things I was trying to do that got me. Hey, you just start from scratch - it gives me something to do and allows me to polish things up next time around with things I've learned before the re-install (for instance, NEXT time, I'll be running things on more than JUST the "C" drive, and my sector size will be 4 bits instead of 512 bits - stuff like that).

    But here, it doesn't matter - I don't WORK on this computer, nor is there anything on this computer (personal information-wise) that would be worth having (no banking, no cc #'s, nothing).

    I use ShadowUser v.2.5 as an ADJUNCT to my other protections. It has NEVER crashed on me, not from the very first version I've tried: it has NEVER failed to un-install properly when updating versions, and my COMPUTER has never been infected with anything due to others' use of my computer ever since I've been using it. It says what it does and it does what it says - period.

    And that's ALL I ask of it. Pete
     
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