Would a Google shutdown destroy the Internet?

Discussion in 'privacy general' started by JackmanG, Aug 15, 2013.

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  1. JackmanG

    JackmanG Former Poster

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    This is an interesting topic that was raised in this post, and I thought it might make for some interesting discussion.

    If Google shutdown (and even better, Bing and Yahoo as well)...would that really mean the end of the Internet? The fiber optic networks would only be good for IMing and VoIP?

    Certainly I've got my own ideas, but I'm curious to hear how people respond.
     
  2. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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  3. JackmanG

    JackmanG Former Poster

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    :p well that's no fun.

    I was at least hoping he'd come in here and try to defend himself before something like that happened.
     
  4. J_L

    J_L Registered Member

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    No, but it would be a step back until somebody else steps up.
     
  5. Nebulus

    Nebulus Registered Member

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    That is exactly what I think it will happen as well. Though I think that this step back will not be very long, and another company will replace Google very quickly. Maybe a better one :D
     
  6. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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    No need to defend myself really, and I never said it would "end" the Internet. What it would do is make using the Internet for the things we take for granted pretty freakin difficult. If you'll note, I mentioned every company shutting down instead of following government desires, not just Google and MS. You do that and yes, for any actual activities we do on a daily basis, you could "kill" the Internet. Who cares if the infrastructure is intact if you have no reliable search engine, no file services, no email, no updates to your OS (Want to imagine Mac/iOS suddenly vanishing? How about Windows?..on the bright side, hey look, Linux desktop usage shot up!). Without services, the Internet is nothing but a collection of computers and a hell of a lot of wiring. The "damage" would also come from businesses not being able to conduct a lot of their business, not to mention the economical damage that would be caused if these powerhouses went down. Yet again, things are being made too simple and either/or.

    The problem is nobody else is really stepping up. We get the once in a while new search engine..that's dead in months if that long and still usually uses the search results of other providers (see Yahoo/Bing, Startup/Google).

    By the way, who are you going to use as your VOIP provider and your IM service if everybody says "Screw government spying, we're shutting down"?

    Luckily, we won't have to face such an issue because no one but the small companies who don't really have much to lose is stupid enough to go that far.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  7. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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    And how many have come and gone? Google is going nowhere for a long time, they're a dictionary term now for godsake. Bing, well, it could easily drop dead in the not so distant future.
     
  8. Nebulus

    Nebulus Registered Member

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    I think you misunderstood me :) I answered the question "Would a Google shutdown destroy the Internet?", not "Will Google shutdown?".

    That is one of the reasons I hope Google will meet it's demise sooner than later (I know the chances are really slim, no need to remind me). To make room for something new.

    The new ones that will appear in their place, and which hopefully will have a more sensible approach when it comes to users.

    I wouldn't call standing up for your rights as being stupid, but I would call Google and all the others that are not doing anything cowards.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  9. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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    Well, it is 4am, lol. But no, Google by itself wouldn't do any real harm to the web, though the economic price would still be there.
     
  10. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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    A better thing for Google to do than shutting down would be to disavow what they have proclaimed far and wide, i.e. that "no user has a reasonable expectation of privacy" (which is a prime example of hubris on Google's part that intends only to protect their revenue stream based on user data) and to do something proactive to champion privacy. It's about time - don't you think?



    -- Tom
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2013
  11. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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    Why would you hope that Google meets its demise? Getting rid of one company to make room for another, only for the new company to have to follow the same government policies isn't changing for the better. People seem to think it's a Google problem, and it isn't.

    As to replacing these other companies, eventually, sure. But until that time, if you were left without a Google/MS and whomever, we'd have problems. Large, reliable companies don't grow on trees or overnight.

    Rights, the abused word surfaces again. As far as the company is concerned, your rights end with the TOS of said company. As far as the government is concerned, your rights end where ever they decide them to end, for better or worse of course. To keep this thread from getting locked up over one post..again..we'll just keep it to the TOS of a company.

    Google tells you precisely what they do with your data. I'm not going to sit here and say I'm a huge fan of it, but, again, compromise. Government actions are an entirely different matter and no, going to court and trying to fight an entity like the FISC and the NSA is far from cowardly. Going to court is all they can do. Google is big, but trying to change things like secret spy programs instead of, say, general privacy practice is an entirely different world and not simple.

    @Lotuseclat79: And do what instead, start telling everyone one thing and doing the opposite? That got them in hot water before too. I hate to break it to you, but every major provider would tell you the same thing in regards to privacy. Actually, the best answer would be that if you're on the Internet, nothing you ever do is really private.

    I'll say it one last time, people are making these issues way more simple than they really are. If you want any real change, getting mad at Google for doing what they do and for not "fighting hard enough"..ain't gonna get it. If it were just Google or just MS or just such and such company policy, change would be pretty easy. But it isn't.
     
  12. Nebulus

    Nebulus Registered Member

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    Mostly because I believe that monopolies have no place in our society.

    Google is a problem, but you are right when you say that even if they would go out of business, they will probably be replaced by the same kind of corporation, which will act roughly the same as Google.

    Actually, it is simple, but then the profit and the shareholders get in the way... And because there is no real profit loss for Google (or any other big data corporation) even if they are "selling" their users to whomever they want (from government to any other 3rd party), then why would they change their ways?
     
  13. Taliscicero

    Taliscicero Registered Member

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    I would like the internet more if those things closed down. It would reclaim the internet for smart people.
     
  14. Sadeghi85

    Sadeghi85 Registered Member

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  15. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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  16. Nebulus

    Nebulus Registered Member

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    No.

    This makes me think Taliscicero is right when saying: "I would like the internet more if those things closed down. It would reclaim the internet for smart people."
     
  17. CloneRanger

    CloneRanger Registered Member

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    It wouldn't destroy it, but as much as i dislike their tracking etc, which can be avoided, & is by me & lots of others on here etc, it is one of, if not the best SE's for results.

    It never ceases to amaze me how quickly, & with just a short phrase, it's able to locate something accurately i'm looking for out of millions/billions of data !

    If G shutdown, it would take YouTube with it, which considering how much junk is on there might not be a bad thing. The thing is, it's not all junk.

    So G is here to stay, i'm sure.
     
  18. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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    Instead of shutting down, just what could be more effective for the user than a company that adopts a principled modification of its behavior and becomes a champion of privacy? The catch-22 is whether other Internet influential corporations would become so like-minded.

    What, you "hate to break it to me" and don't think that I am well aware of the obvious?

    Privacy can be obtained on the Internet, just not under the assumptions of the common user that thinks corporations are acting in their best interests. Sadly, only the expert users will be able to approach having a reasonable modicum of privacy on the Internet which will be mostly too complicated from a technical point-of-view for the casual user that just wants a computer to boot up and be useable for surfing the Internet/WWW.

    When users indeed "own" their own data, and can either opt-in to sell it to corporations (as at least one venue is starting up now) or opt-out and not be hounded by advertisers and tracked for their online behavior by corporation reselling and sharing of user information - then maybe the users will get a fair break - which now seems highly unlikely as the engines of Commerce are what gets the oil when our Economies are lagging with Recession and lack of jobs.

    Maybe Google and other corporations could cut the user in on the profits it makes from the sale of the user's data? Or, why not make it a law - just try and get that passed through our constipated Congress - fat chance, but a fair treatment of users which in the long run would benefit us all and the Economy.

    The vacuum created by a Google shutdown (are you kidding me?) would be quickly filled by other service vendors waiting in the wings for the business opportunity. Do you really think that other corporations believe Google will shutdown/or be shutdown by the Gov'mt and actually have business plans in-place to accommodate such an occurrence? Fat chance! There would be a scramble like never seen before.

    -- Tom
     
  19. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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    Then I just don't know what else to tell you.
     
  20. Mman79

    Mman79 Registered Member

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    The thing is though, there are no others "waiting in the wings", unless they are truly hiding. So yes, there would be a vacuum if both Google and Bing killed their engines. All other engines are special purpose or rely on both of those corporations for the data, and simply tweak things, like Startpage. How quickly do you think an up and comer would have to act? Pretty damned quick quite honestly, as in days. Then, there is handling the traffic of the world. It's a billion dollar plus job, and how many billion dollar search companies do you think there are?

    In order for us to ever own our digital data again, you're going to have to start at government level and change it. That's where the "fat chance" comes in at. You've pretty much said all there is to be said as far as laws go, a snowball has a better shot in hell than users do of being treating as anything but a product or a number.

    Sure, you can try to obtain privacy on the net, but when the government is the one determining what privacy is and how much of it can be had, all the tools in the world won't help you.
     
  21. safeguy

    safeguy Registered Member

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    Google is a company. It started out as 1 thing, branched out their business scope with acquisitions (Youtube, DoubleClick, etc) and gradually become what it is today.

    If it ever shuts down, then other companies with their own areas of specialization/expertise will try to fill in the gaps with what they have to offer to end-users. Just look at what happened when Google decided to discontinue Google Reader. Did RSS die? No it didn't. Services like Feedly took in quite a number of users whom migrated.

    Of course, there will be some form of disruption and users who are heavily dependent on Google services will be affected more than others. The transition period may even prove to be trying for some but then again, things do not happen or change overnight. It takes time. I believe things will work out eventually though because the human race are creatures of survival - we create and we innovate when faced with problems.

    As for the privacy concerns, we already have a lot of those discussions. It all boils down to 1 thing. You either trust, distrust or choose to ignore it. Pick your poison because if there were to be a company that fully replaces Google (in all aspects, not just 1 part of the equation), I honestly think it will eventually act the same.
    "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
  22. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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  23. mattdocs12345

    mattdocs12345 Registered Member

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  24. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Right. If Google shut down, people would use Bing, Yandex, Baidu, etc.

    Eventually, something like Google would be resurected by its former staff.
     
  25. LowWaterMark

    LowWaterMark Administrator

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    yeah, yeah... lots of speculation... not too much in the way of facts.

    When Google is forced to close their doors... We'll talk. :isay:
     
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