Wireless Settings Missing in Restored Image

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by MichaelY, Feb 27, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. MichaelY

    MichaelY Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Posts:
    12
    I am new to Acronis and am helping set it it up for a friend on his computer. I have the backup working the way I want it to work. However, when I tested the restore, the settings for the wireless connection were missing.

    Windows XP Home SP3
    Acronis TI Home 2009
    Backup to 2nd HDD Drive D:
    Restore to System HDD Drive C:
    NETGEAR WG311v3 802g Wireless PCI Adapter

    Anyone have any idea what is wrong.

    Thanks
     
  2. Antifreeze

    Antifreeze Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Posts:
    67
    I take it this was a 'system state' backup? It's interesting that you mention this, because when I was reading about system backups yesterday, I did wonder if there were any system settings or files that could be inadvertently 'missed'.

    Sorry, i don't have a solution - just an observation.
     
  3. MichaelY

    MichaelY Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Posts:
    12
    Antifreeze,

    I too am wondering what else might be missing.

    I did a complete backup of the C: partition on drive 0. I have done this for years on my computer and on other computers using DriveCopy and later DriveImage 5. My friend for whom I did this has been having lots of difficulty with software failures on his hard drive (probably a bad drive or DI 5 is causing problems when it backs up the drive) Using DriveImage 5 I set it up to backup every night and he had numerous times when he had to restore. And restore it he did without any problems.

    Now he is making changes to his computer replacing his hard drive such that DriveImage 5 will not work for him. After PowerQuest was swallowed up by Symantec they dropped the DriveImage product but I don't like Ghost, the replacement software from Symantec.

    So I am trying Acronis. If it is something I did that I can change to correct the problem that would be fine. However if this a problem that can not be overcome without reconnecting the wireless network after each backup I will deem that True Image is not satisfactory mostly because I have no idea what else doesn't work.
     
  4. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Posts:
    3,329
    Location:
    San Rafael, CA
    By a complete backup, are you certain that you didn't select a Files and Folder backup by mistake. A entire computer / partition image has always included all the NIC and wireless settings in my experience.

    Have you run CHKDSK C: /R on the drive to be sure there aren't drive errors?
     
  5. MichaelY

    MichaelY Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Posts:
    12
    jmk94903,

    Thanks for replying.

    Yes I did!

    Yes I do a backup using My computer (Create an image of the entire disk or partition) and select the C drive.

    However I think I found the problem. In my Pre Command I execute a batch process to force the closing of running programs (using NirCmd Killprocess.) to eliminate any interference with the backup which is a scheduled task. Alas, I also stop the DHCP client service to prevent any network access since I close my firewall and virus checker. (Too clever for my own good.)

    I will try running again with that command disabled and see if it works. This will take all night and into the morning to run the backup (7 hours with validation) and restore (3 hours).

    I will post back on my results.
     
  6. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Posts:
    3,329
    Location:
    San Rafael, CA
    I can see why you want to take precautions, but have you tried running the backup without any of these precautions? Unless you know there is a problem between one of your running processes and the TI scheduler, you may just be making things more complicated than needed.

    Lot of folks run scheduled backups without turning off the DHCP service, firewall or antivirus programs. Of course, some people have problems with scheduled backups, but it may be due to other programs.
     
  7. Antifreeze

    Antifreeze Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Posts:
    67
    Glad you're on your way to a solution.
     
  8. MichaelY

    MichaelY Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Posts:
    12
    jmk94903,

    I spent the better part of 30 years writing programs and one thing I learned was that if something can go wrong it will. I may be overly cautious but by training I can imagine all sorts of things going wrong and I was trying to forestall them from taking me by surprise.

    For example, one night I had the scheduled backup running and at 3:00AM the automatic installation of a Microsoft update occurred so that after running for 4 hours, the backup terminated when Microsoft update rebooted the machine.

    If you know more about how the backup system works maybe you can tell me what happens to data that changes during the update, especially emails that may be received while the backup is running. Can I lose them if I restore?

    I can still close down the browser and email client and other programs while I leave the firewall and virus checker running. My thinking was to release as many resources for the backup so that it wont slow down as it already takes 7 hours to run.

    I can live with that if stopping the DHCP Client is in fact what is causing the problem.

    Thanks loads,
    Michael
     
  9. MichaelY

    MichaelY Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Posts:
    12
    Hey Antifreeze,
    I guess you edited your posting before I got to it because the posting emailed to me doesn't match what is here.

    I did look at the link you sent to me to backup my network settings. However, I think that I will stick with the possibility of just not turning off the DHCP Client and leave my virus check and firewall running. If that works.

    Thanks for the info.
    Michael
     
  10. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,647
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    MichaelY,

    A "snapshot" is taken in the second or so before the backup image commences. You can install as many programs as you like after the backup image has commenced and they won't be present in the backup. And if you stop services before the "snapshot" is taken, they will be stopped when you restore the image.
     
  11. MichaelY

    MichaelY Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Posts:
    12
    Brian K,

    When you say snapshot do you mean like when you create an XP restore point? An XP restore point does not take any picture of my data.

    To be specific, if I get an email or a virus update or an OS update, etc. after the backup starts, do I lose it?
     
  12. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,647
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    That is correct. It won't be present in the image.
     
  13. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Posts:
    4,751
    From what I recall, in simple terms, TI takes a snapshot of the disk and notes the sectors used. It then queues up write requests until the sectors involved are written to the archive then they are released for write operations. You should not lose any data but the changes will not be written to the archive. However if the machine is rebooted by a process during the archive creation then I wouldn't count on anything.

    There are very, very few problems reported on this forum that are a result of making an image from within running Windows.

    I always image with AV, firewall, email, network runnng. I know of others who continue working with various applications but I prefer just to have coffee ...
     
  14. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,647
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    I'm in that group.
     
  15. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Posts:
    8,647
    Location:
    NSW, Australia
    That is ambiguous, isn't it. The files won't be in your image but they will be in your computer as normal. You won't miss reading the email etc.
     
  16. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Posts:
    3,329
    Location:
    San Rafael, CA
    Me too.

    If we are successful, we'll get Michael so confident that he will get in trouble. :)

    OK, I think we are all saying that the Windows feature to allow imaging open applications and the Acronis backup functions work well, so stopping programs is generally not necessary.

    As I recall, the one exception is database programs that may be accessed during a backup operation.
     
  17. MichaelY

    MichaelY Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Posts:
    12
    Not to worry. 30 years of training is not easy to overcome. This is all the more true as the latest test of of the backup without disabling the network did not correct the problem.


    To be more specific, when I say I have to reestablish the network connection after a reboot this is what I mean.

    The network connection is set up by using the NETGEAR WG511v2 SMART WIZARD - Wireless Assistant. I do not use the Microsoft Wireless Network Setup Wizard. To reconnect I have to run the NETGEAR SMART WIZARD which searches to find all available wireless networks (in this case since he lives in an apartment complex, there are up to 12 neighboring networks that show up.) I then have to select the network, supply the WEP key, save the configuration, and select Apply to connect.

    For me this is no big deal but my friend is not as computer literate as are several others that I help out and this is an extra complication for them to handle. Also, as I previously stated, I wonder what else is not backed up that hasn't showed up yet.

    In addition, there is another problem with running the backup to provide for 3 backups on successive days. Don't tell me that 3 successive backups are not necessary. One friend had his drive go bad in the midst of doing his nightly backup which deleted his only backup before the disk went bad and now he has sent his HDD out to try to have his data retrieved at a cost of $600.00.

    But the Acronis successive backup is a problem I have not yet researched and should be the subject for a new thread.

    Michael
     
  18. Antifreeze

    Antifreeze Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2006
    Posts:
    67
    > Also, as I previously stated, I wonder what else is not backed
    > up that hasn't showed up yet.

    Hmm... when I mentioned that, I thought you were talking about the 'system state' FILE backup.

    I don't quite understand how you can be missing settings from an IMAGE backup, unless those settings are not kept in a file or registry setting on your disk (ie. written to memory on the network card)?

    Or perhaps the network settings are being backed-up and restored by ATI, but the network card just doesn't like the process, and resets everything during one of the formats or boots?

    What about taking the card out just before you start the wipe/restore process?
     
  19. MichaelY

    MichaelY Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Posts:
    12
    If I were to do that it would be only for testing and understanding the process better, i.e. determining that the settings are stored on the wireless card instead of on the computer. However, DriveImage did not have this problem and unless he recently changed wireless cards it means that it is a True Image problem. I will ask him and report back.
     
  20. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Posts:
    4,751
    This isn't a typical problem but it does sounds similar to the MS-Office issue where .bak files were being excluded from the image by default. Check the backup wizard's screen that deals with exclusions to make sure nothing is selected (other than perhaps .tib files). Could be settings are being saved in a file with an poor choice of extension.

    I don't have Netgear stuff but on my Toshiba the wireless connection is handled by Intel Pro Wireless and a Linksys router instead of Windows either it works fine with TI.

    Only other files TI doesn't backup are the swapfile and hibernation files but these are recreated upon any reboot.

    Have you tried making the backup with the TI rescue CD? This deals with a static HD and takes Windows and applications right out of the picture.
     
  21. MichaelY

    MichaelY Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Posts:
    12
    First, I checked and the Netgear Wireless card has always been in the computer and DriveImage never had the problem that TI has with the network connection. But read on.
    I removed the .bak files from the exclusion list early on. However, everytime I went to edit the scheduled event, the .bak was added back in as were the other exclusions duplicated. I eventually changed the default option.

    It is difficult for me to imagine that the parameters for connecting the Netgear card to the network would be stored in any file excluded by *.~ or *.tmp. Who would do such a stupid thing? So I did a search and sure enough the parameters appear to be stored in a file named WG511v2_OEM.tmp. This is crazy and so I will have to test the backup and restore one more time. Another day, another 10 hour test.
    It is not possible to do an automatic backup using the rescue disk and so even if this did work, it would do me no good.

    SEEKFOREVER: I don't know whether to thank you or not. Just kidding of course.

    I will report back sometime tomorrow.

    With great thanks,
    Michael
     
  22. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2004
    Posts:
    3,329
    Location:
    San Rafael, CA
    As Acronis has made TI "smarter" allowing files to be omitted from an image backup, this is just the sort of result that I'd expect. Instead of an image which implies that everything on the disk is included, some files are missing becaue they are omitted by default. What appears to be very smart programming to eliminate the large pagefile and hibernation file, leads to problems when the idea is extended to .tmp files. Some programs do use the .tmp extension for useful storage. Omitting these by default was just asking to create problems for some individuals.

    You are very lucky that you tried to restore a backup. Most users only try a restore when they actually need it. They will discover the problem when it's too late to easily recover.
     
  23. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Posts:
    4,751
    I must admit that if I'm cleaning up some files, I (used to) delete files with .tmp or .bak extension without much thought but that has changed given the TI saga.

    IMO, this blame for this situation lies with MS, Netgear and anybody else who uses the defacto standard extensions of .bak and .tmp for data that should not be considered as backup or temporary.

    While I'm preaching, to me an image should be just that, an image of all the partition contents but I think the swapfile and hibernation file omission by TI is justified. Since there is a body of users who don't like the idea of partitioning their disk so they can keep data files elsewhere, I can see why they would want to do file exclusions to make an image job run faster if there are lots of huge data files. I prefer to divide and conquer by partitioning.
     
  24. K0LO

    K0LO Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Posts:
    2,591
    Location:
    State College, Pennsylvania
    Didn't Acronis change the default file exclusions in the latest TI 2009 build?
     
  25. MichaelY

    MichaelY Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2009
    Posts:
    12
    Many thanks to all who helped me with this problem: JMK94903, Antifreeze, BrianK, Seekforever. As expected the last test worked just fine.

    To JMK94903: I don't think it is luck that I caught this problem. It is as I said 30 years of experience. Remember: Never assume.

    MichaelY
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.