Windows10 Update question

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by amarildojr, May 9, 2016.

  1. amarildojr

    amarildojr Registered Member

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    I've completely disabled Windows 10 automatic updates, which worked for some time, but it seems I'm running into confusion.

    I've disabled automatic updates via gpedit.msc, then updated the policy. I've also set all connection parameters (via regedit) to metered. I've also used "O&O Shutup 10" to disable automatic updates, just to make sure, but it seems this have disabled the windows update service, which is causing problems.

    Here's a screenshot of my Wupdate settings: https://i.imgur.com/Y3ScEga.png
    Here's the service disabled, which is caused by O&O: https://i.imgur.com/FBnJjXk.png
    Here's the problem: I sometimes get the error 80070422, saying it can't install updates and asking me to retry (which doesn't work). This, BTW, is when I click "check for updates".

    My question: Given all my settings from gpedit and regedit, if I keep the Windows update service enabled, will it respect all those settings?
     
  2. driekus

    driekus Registered Member

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    I wouldnt count on Microsoft respecting anything.

    Personally I use TinyWall. They have a setting to block Windows services at the network level. Windows update runs but cant connect to the server. I have been running this for a few months with no problems or complaints.
    I have confirmed with wireshark that Tinywall does block the connections.
     
  3. MisterB

    MisterB Registered Member

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    You have to enable the Windows Update service to search for updates. It can be disabled again when you're done. Windows update needs two services, Windows Update and BITS, to work. BITS downloads the updates and they won't download without it. If you use services.msc to disable the Windows update service or BITS in Windows 10, they will be enabled again on reboot. O&O shutup has to do something else to keep it disabled. I change ACLs on the service's .dlls to do that.

    I have heard of some privacy settings being reset on upgrades, not updates. I've had all of my group policy settings carry over on updates and upgrades so far but I'm not giving Windows 10 much attention right now.
     
  4. TairikuOkami

    TairikuOkami Registered Member

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    It should, because Pro version is mainly for companies, which need to prevent Windows Updates from running at will.
    Deleting tasks for checking updates might help too, deleting, because when disabled, they get re-enabled again.

    schtasks /DELETE /TN "Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator\Schedule Scan" /f
    schtasks /DELETE /TN "Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate\Scheduled Start" /f

    For the record, WU also need DHCP and Windows Firewall (though firewall can be turned off).
     
  5. MisterB

    MisterB Registered Member

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    The forced updates are unacceptable to some of us who want to own the OS, not have the OS own us. Those who don't want the cloud core model and still want to use Windows 10, have every right in the world to do so even if that requires a bit of technical expertise to disable the parts of it that we don't want. This has been done with every version of Windows, it is nothing new. It is really just a small minority of users who do such radical customizations.
     
  6. Umbra

    Umbra Registered Member

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    You use the FREE home version, you accept the forced updates ; you refuse them , then you can BUY the pro/enterprise version. nothing is free in this world. You can't own a software if it is not open source, and Windows is way too far from being open source.
     
  7. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    I take an entirely different approach. I only use Windows when I need to. But when I do, I let it do whatever it wants. However, it doesn't know who I am, or where it is. And it only lives as long as I need it.
     
  8. Joxx

    Joxx Registered Member

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    How do you manage that.
     
  9. TairikuOkami

    TairikuOkami Registered Member

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    I understand Microsoft's approach to security, the problem is, that Windows updates are completely unreliable, in 10 more than ever. Bad updates, which broke something happened time to time, but in 10 is became a custom, about once a month for all and during every update for some. MS should let the option to disable updates normally at least via registry or something. I have Pro and Window restores Schedule Scan task, so I have to remove it every day. There is no way to control 10 normally, MS took it away, only let the illusion of control via GPO and such.
     
  10. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Torrents, Tor and VPNs :)
     
  11. Joxx

    Joxx Registered Member

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    yes, but....
    doesn't the installed OS knows where it is no matter what ? Can't it always detect your ISP's IP ?
     
  12. Umbra

    Umbra Registered Member

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    I clean-installed Win10 hundreds of time , never got a single Win Update issues. I just let it install everything it want. after i upgrade my drivers.
     
  13. MisterB

    MisterB Registered Member

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    I speak of "ownership" in terms of having control over the OS and what services and processes it uses, not in legal terms. The first thing I did with Windows 10 is to figure out how to disable forced updates. If I choose to make a stripped down version of Windows 10 with a bare Windows kernel capable of running Windows software and perhaps a VM or two that I manually update every 6 months, that is my right earned my my knowledge of the inner workings of Windows.
     
  14. deBoetie

    deBoetie Registered Member

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    If you think of browsers as smart-dumb terminals onto a (webserver) mainframe, doing their bidding, then W10 is a kind of extended smart-dumb terminal in that sense, except it normally has far higher privileges to your host and data, and is obviously chatting away in the cloud. It's a form of cuckoo that you invite into your hardware, same as browsers but more powerful. You may find free is way too expensive, that is the way of the world.

    However, as always, these things benefit from compartmentalisation, particularly in terms of running most applications in Virtual machines (W10 can be one of those virtual machines).

    The difference now is that I would not consider W10 as the host for a VM setup, the only option going forward is Linux or a hypervisor. So be it.

    One thing I would note is that at least on Vmware with a W10 VM clean upgrade from W8.1, the performance is unbearable (in comparison with the W8.1 VM instance). I have not tracked that issues down so far.
     
  15. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    What VMware product. I saw the same thing on VM Workstation, until I did the VMware defrag, and also installed a defragger on the VM machine itself.
     
  16. deBoetie

    deBoetie Registered Member

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    Thanks @Peter2150 It's Workstation 12, up to date. Did defrag, and consolidated disks as well, not much better. Also ran VM on ssd (have oodles of ram and cores), improved, but still much worse than the W8.1 instance. Something "funny" and low-level which I had expected MS & Vmware to have sorted frankly, and I have little interest in adopting W10 since I abhor social media anyway (plus the ridiculous withdrawal of functionality like AppLocker that was in W7 Ultimate, now only available in W10 Enterprise which I ain't doing).
     
  17. MisterB

    MisterB Registered Member

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    I've been running Windows 10 mainly in a Virtualbox VM. I've had no major performance issues but it does have a periodic freeze where the screen goes dark and it is unresponsive for a few seconds. I only have the Pro version which is also a free upgrade. I have it multibooting with Windows 7 and Linux on several computers but I rarely boot it, Windows 7 works much better in terms of hardware, driver compatibility, and power consumption on all of them. I've also found some ACL settings in the WindowsApps folder that cause me some concern and the Modern Apps are broken if I tighten them so the Modern Apps will be completely removed if I ever start using Windows 10 on a real machine on a regular basis.

    In terms of using Windows 10 as a VM host, all my multibooting computers have shared Virtualbox VMs that can be run from either Windows 7, 10 or Linux. Linux is the best host but Windows 7 is certainly acceptable although there is a performance hit. Windows 10 works but it took several Virtualbox updates to sort out the issues. I am, at some point, going to experiment with the built in Hyper-V hypervisor in Windows 10 and if I see any reason to keep using it, I will indeed strip down the Windows 10 host to its bare essence. I already have both Windows Update and the Telemetry disabled but there is much much more I would strip out to use Windows 10 as a VM host.
     
  18. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Well my host is Win 7, and sometimes my W10 machine is peppy and sometimes not. Haven't figured it out yet.
     
  19. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    The problem is, most users do NOT wish to "share" all their personal and private information and data. You better clarify and define what you mean by "sharing network".
     
  20. Kerodo

    Kerodo Registered Member

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    If you doubt what I've said, why don't you take a poll and ask all the Wilders users if they wish to share all their personal and private information and data with just anyone? Let's see what they say. :)

    PS: This will probably be my last post to you here... this looks a lot like Troll Time to me. ;)
     
  21. login123

    login123 Registered Member

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    "So.....it is about ownership, not security!"

    You're looking at the wrong end of the donkey, there, HKEY.
    It's not about ownership or security. It's about control.

    I do own it, lock stock and barrel, I can get the cd out and look at it, I can install and uninstall it, modify it, unmodify it, and nobody can take it.
    But I don't really care who owns it, when I can no longer control my OS I'll use another.
    Apparently many feel the same way: Win 10 has been given away free for months now and only about 16 percent of computers use it.
    This in spite of the unprecedented effort to persuade or trick win 7 & 8 users into installing it.
    http://gs.statcounter.com/#os-ww-monthly-201504-201604
     
  22. amarildojr

    amarildojr Registered Member

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    If that's your definition of control, then I can only be sorry for you :p

    Control is being able to chose not to install any updates at all, to install only certain updates, etc. On W10 Pro that is partially possible via gpedit.msc, as you can see in the image I linked in my first post. There should be a REGEDIT equivalent for W10 Home users, but the only one I could find is to make all connections as "Metered", which supposedly prevents Windows from automatically downloading updates.

    None of these offer full control, though, we still can't chose which updates to install. Hopefully someone (AutoPatcher, I'm looking at you ;) ) will make a tool to chose which updates to install.
     
  23. Umbra

    Umbra Registered Member

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    MS give the home version for free, don't compare the current Win10 FREE home version with the previous PAID Windows versions. If you want more control just BUY Win10 Pro (or Enterprise) as you would do with any versions of the previous Windows. MS gives you something that was previously sold in exchange of less control; imagine it like you are using a free version AV instead of the paid version (less features, less control). You want keep the control, just buy the right version that fits you. If i had enough money i would buy the enterprise version, unfortunately i can't so im sticking with the home version. i don't mind loosing some control since i don't have to open my wallet.


    Share with who? i share nothing with anybody , MS just collect usage datas, they don't pick your docs or pictures and throw them on the net for everybody to see them...

    I guess he means that updates/upgrades will be only delivered online via MS servers or other computers in your network already having the updates/upgrades.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
  24. amarildojr

    amarildojr Registered Member

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    A couple of points:

    • "Free" really doesn't apply, because if the user gets W10 from the upgrade than Microsoft is still making money out of this user via telemetry;
    • Is Home really free now? I mean, if I fresh install W10 on any computer, will it activate automatically?
    • Microsoft gives the Pro version for free as well, that's the one I have;
    • Paid or not, Home or Pro, users should be in command of updates;
    Why should that be a requirement in order to have more control over the OS?

    Not really a good comparison. In any antivirus, be it free or paid, nothing is forced on the user, the user can decide to disable the scans, or updates, or anything.

    Overall, this "it's free, suck it up" argument is really bold and not very good.

    I see Microsoft actually got into your mind :) You're actually willing to spend more money just because of control :argh: Keep it up, soon you'll accept Microsoft products in exchange for microphones and cameras on your home. I mean, they're "free", right?
     
  25. Umbra

    Umbra Registered Member

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    I will answer with red typos


    Because it is business. if you own a company you would never give free stuff without some sort of compensation/gain. not saying, if you gives the features/control of the paid version to the free version, what is the point to sell the paid one. Win10 home is the stripped version of Win10 Pro.

    some solutions don't gives you full access to the settings in their free version.


    That is not about being good or not; it is just the plain truth of our world. You have all the rights to disagree but then you are not forbidden to move to other solutions.
    You are thirsty , you go in a restaurant , they will give you free water, you want something nicer that fit your taste, just pay or leave. simple as that.


    Not only control, have you ever heard of the extra features unavailable in home versions? i won't pay for just having control of some updates but for all the extra-stuff the higher version gives. like before when people bought Win7 Ultimate instead of Win7 Home. got it?


    Are you serious with that statement?!!! as if i don't have the intelligence to evaluate what i will give or not...come on..i hope you were joking, if not i won't spend more time answering you.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
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