Windows Bluescreens when creating image

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Catamaran, May 24, 2006.

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  1. Catamaran

    Catamaran Registered Member

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    TI9 Home Build 3633

    System is setup as follows:

    1 x Internal disk. 2 x Partitions. 1st Partition - System & Software. 2nd Partition - Data

    1 x External disk. 2 x Partitions. Used for Backups

    1 x New disk (still in manufacturers box)

    The internal disk has a small bad sector. Chkdsk has been run on the disk (many times) and the bad sector is as far as I can determine "isolated". The main reason that I purchased TI was to enable me to move the System & Software from the disk with the bad sector to a new disk.

    I made images of the Data partition and they are fine. Image verifies and everything seems OK. So I assume that in general terms my particular setup of hardware/software is compatible with TI Build 3633.

    Before attempting to make a system image I physically disconnected from the Internet and shutdown all background processes like AV, Firewall, SpyWare... etc

    I then tried to make an image of the System. (Reading the many postings on this Forum it seems that this is the preferred route rather than Cloning). The process starts OK but then suddenly Bluescreens. Looking up the Windows error code gives the reason as "...unable to access disk...".

    After Bluescreening Windows restarts normally and all seems OK.

    I don't want to confuse the issue here. It may be the bad sector that is causing the problem, but then again it may not. If it is the bad sector then it is difficult to see a way around it. But if it is not the bad sector then there may be a remedy.

    Any thoughts :blink:
     
  2. Chutsman

    Chutsman Registered Member

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    Make the bootable TI Rescue CD and use that to do your Image Backup and Restore.
     
  3. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    Ayup.

    Bad sectors can cause BSOD.

    First thing is to download drive manufacturer's diagnostics, run them.
    See if they will fix problems.

    Also, if ANY of the drives are Seagate, you can use the Seagate diagnostics. Download 'em.

    Depending on WHERE the bad sector is located, you MIGHT be able to resize the partition with Partition Magic to eliminate the bad sector from the partition.

    Most importantly, tho it's OK to make an IMAGE backup, under NO circumstances restore the IMAGE, instead, restore ALL FILES from the image, otherwise the foolish restore may mark a good sector as bad on the replacement drive.
     
  4. Catamaran

    Catamaran Registered Member

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    Tks for the suggestions.

    Answers to questions.....

    * Under normal operation system never BSOD's so the bad sector is "isolated" from a Windows perspective
    * Windows Backup utility runs without problems and the archive is good
    * Disks are Maxtor. Manf. utils don't report or do anything more than chkdsk

    And more questions....

    ***
    I am concerned that if I boot into the Linux kernel and do the Image/Restore from there that TI9 might image a "virtual" bad sector to the new disk. Could this happen?

    ***
    I have PM so I could attempt to resize the System Partition. At a guess I would say that the bad sector is near the beginning of the partition, because when it occurred I could not boot into Windows normally, I had to boot into Safe Mode and then run the disk utils from there. Once the sector was isolated normal Windows booting resumed.

    How risky is it if I inserted a small partition (say 5GB) in front of the System Partition? This still means that Windows would start well within the 8GB boundary. If the bad sector was within the first 5GB then it would be eliminated from the System Partition and I could then image the System Partition. On a scale of 1 to 10 how much of a risk is there that I would end up with an unbootable system?

    ***
    I don't understand the bit in your reply
    This is the System Partition. If I restore the "ALL FILES" the partition on the new disk won't be bootable.

    ***
    If I created a Clone of the disk would TI9 "clone" a "virtual" bad sector to the new disk leaving me with exactly the same problem on a brand new disk?

    o_O
     
  5. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    the drive manufacturer's utilities will replace bad sectors from the spare sector pool and NO software would ever see those sectors.

    Seagate took over Maxtor.

    First, call Maxtor tech support to see what they suggest, and ask whether the SEagate diagnostics will now run with Maxtor drives even tho you have no seagate drives.

    And more questions....

    ***
    TI has stated this could happen and I mentioned that possibility IF you do an IMAGE restore.


    ***
    Do not GUESS, there's no way to tell without running the proper diagnostics.

    Disk diagnostics cannot be run from within Windows.

    You need to run proper drive diagnostics that will remove the bad sector from the sector space.

    If you restore all the files, that does not affect the size or bootability of a partition. It avoids TI mistakingly marking a good sector as bad.

    TI has stated this could happen and I mentioned that possibility IF you do an IMAGE restore.
     
  6. Catamaran

    Catamaran Registered Member

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    Tks Howard for your very detailed reply, I really appreciate your time.

    Not surprising that Maxtor was taken over by Seagate. Maxtor disks are good products but customer service is enough to make a grown man :'(

    The disk checking utility does no more than chkdsk without the /f switch. PowerMax is the Maxtor power-utility for disk diagnostics. Unfortunately Maxtor did not think it worthwhile to integrate support for some popular motherboards or even disk technologies. PowerMax v4.22 has just been released and is the first version to support SATA disks.... BUT.... it does not support the MSI KT range of motherboards with the VIA chipset (which are a very popular and common component used by many OEM's) and of course that is exactly what I have - SATA disks with the KT800 mbrd and VIA chipset.

    Even if my setup was supported the instructions that come with PowerMax are scary. The process is run outside of Windows from a boot floppy - which is understandable - but there appears to be very little user control after bootup and from what I understand if a problem is found PowerMax will attempt to fix it but the process seems to be a destructive process with the loss of all disk contents. The instruction to "...remove all other disks from the system prior to use..." does not exactly fill the user with confidence!

    So I will now have to devise a Plan-B :(
     
  7. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello Catamaran,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    We are sorry for the delayed response.

    Please take a look at this post of mine describing how to avoid transferring bad sectors to the new location.

    Thank you.
    --
    Aleksandr Isakov
     
  8. Catamaran

    Catamaran Registered Member

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    OS : Windows XP Pro SP2
    TI9 : Build 3633
    ------------------------

    Hello Aleksandr

    Thank you for the information.

    Firstly: I have overcome the problem of the bluescreen by booting from the TI CD and imaging the system partition to a .tib file. The process worked smoothly and the image verified.

    Secondly: The problem now arises how to restore this image to another disk. As a new user to TI I am uncertain as to what I should actually do. You say in your linked post...

    1. Does this mean that the user should do ONE or BOTH of these actions? (Clone the disk AND create an Image Archive. Clone the disk OR create an Image Archive)

    2. If the user chooses the 2nd option
    How must the resizing be done? And how does resizing eliminate the bad sector? Chkdsk does not report exactly where the bad sector is. All it reports is the size of the bad sector (e.g. 4KB). So the user will know that there is a bad sector in a particular partition - in my case the system partition on Disk_1 drive C: - but there is no address as to where this sector is.

    I don't understand how resizing overcomes this problem. And when resizing must the the destination partition be resized bigger or smaller? And by how much?

    :(
     
  9. Catamaran

    Catamaran Registered Member

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    Reply to Howard Kaikow

    Howard, I am still having difficulty in understanding your advice.

    In your first response:
    In your second response:
    I really cannot understand how restoring "All Files" will make a bootable partition. So perhaps you would be kind enough to go through the process with me.

    I activate TI Recovery and then select "Restore Specified Files or Folders" and then select all the files and an appropriate new destination. Let us assume that the .tib file was an image of the system partition on Disk_1 with designation C: Let us also assume that the destination partition is on Disk_2 with the designation E:

    At the end of the restore process when I look at E: what I see is that TI has created a Folder on E: called Drive (C). If I open this folder then the contents of drive C: are inside. But this structure does not allow E: to be bootable.

    I now move the contents of the Folder "Drive (C)" - created by TI - to the Root of E: I edit the boot.ini file on E: so that the correct paths are written into this file. I now restart and press F11 and select Disk_2 as the boot media, Windows won't boot because the structure of E: does not conform to a boot disk.

    o_O
     
  10. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello Catamaran,

    I'm sorry for not being accurate enough in my explanation.

    You should clone the whole hard disk drive to a new one resizing the partition with bad blocks OR create the image archive of the partition under consideration and restore it with resizing.

    2. Please note that the restoration of the image archive of the hard drive without resizing the partition(s) performs sector-by-sector. Therefore, in this case the information about secotors of the new hard drive will be the same as on the original hard drive (the one with bad blocks) - they will be marked as bad in the file system. The restoration with resizing the partition(s) performed another way, in this case only information (data) restores (without information of the sectors). So the location of the bad sectors does not really matter in this case.

    Please note that you can either increase the partition space or reduce it (to any size). The resize should be done in order to overcome the issue with transferring bad sectors to the new location.

    I hope this explanation answers your questions.

    If you have any further questions concerning Acronis software, please feel free to submit a request for technical support or post any of them on this forum. We will certainly try to help you in resolving any issues.

    Thank you.
    --
    Aleksandr Isakov
     
  11. Catamaran

    Catamaran Registered Member

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    Hello Aleksandr

    Thank you for the more detailed explanation.

    And..... Good News :D

    As you instructed I performed the Image > Restore process with a reduced partition size and I am very pleased to say "au revoir mauvais secteur".

    So it took a little while but the end result was what I had hoped for.....

    So many thanks for your explanation.

    :thumb: :thumb:
     
  12. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello Catamaran,

    I'm really glad to hear that you are were able to complete this operation successfully.

    Thank you.
    --
    Aleksandr Isakov
     
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