Will there be more updates to TI9 Home?

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by tachyon42, Oct 8, 2006.

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  1. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    Jelenko's assertions might be somewhat sweeping but without getting into the symantics of "day-to-day" operations I don't think he is wrong.

    Marketers want new versions, new features, new, even if useless, bells and whistles. They don't want to be peddling an old version even if it is stable. Developers want to get onto writing the next version they don't want to be fooling around with the old stuff because some crock of a PC doesn't work. Testing, well that is a tedious chore beneath anybodies dignity.

    Support, well the last time the bean counters looked there were X people answering emails, talking on the phone and writing on some internet forum and not one of them was charging their time to the customer. With overhead costs, each one is costing at least $40/hr and that is all we get when we sell one of these things - not making much money here. This obviously is one area where some trimming should occur!
     
  2. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    All true. I don't see how this makes their work unimportant and menial. It is the day to day decisions made by marketeers which can determine whether a company sinks or swims.


    Depends on how you define 'developer'. A developer to me is *not* a programmer. It is someone who designs first (note this has nothing to do with writing code). A good developer will be looking ahead making it easy for a product to be adapted in future products. If you think this work is menial and unimportant then we really will have to agree to differ.


    Again, semantics. Yes you are kind of right. Test execution is tedious. But like you seem to have forgotten about the *design* of software above, you seem to have forgotten the creation of a test specification - which has nothing whatever to do with the tedious chore of test execution. Creating an appropriate set of tests which are able to prove and break a product requires an imaginative and creative mind. To suggest that testing is menial or unimportant is laughable imv.

    F.
     
  3. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    My comment on testing being beneath anybodies dignity was tongue-in-cheek. Of course it is important and a well designed test procedure etc is essential. That said, how many people look forward to doing it.

    You are right that marketers have to market and developers have to develop (no I don't consider a developer as a programmer but I see them linked). However, we saw in TI9 where it appeared on the market in a woeful state; it should never have been released. Who put the pressure on to get it out the door? Marketers? Bean counters? Who tried to stop it, the support people? Anybody? I don't know. I do think there is a general decline in supporting the product version that is currently released and more interest in what's coming down the pipe. In the context of jelenko's comment it is this that I see as the menial day-to-day task.
     
  4. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    That is not the point actually. The poster believes such work to be unimportant, and you concurred. I disagree.

    My interpretation of what jelenko said :
    is that he is discussing the role played by "most" 'developers/marketers', this has absolutely nothing to do with Acronis. He is clearly talking in the general, not the specific, and I think he is mistaken.

    F.
     
  5. phasechange

    phasechange Registered Member

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    As Acronis are considering the support position. I think we should follow Colin's lead and start a thread of "What should be in ATI 9 Final Update" in the hope that Acronis will pay some attention to it and at least fix the top 5 issues asked for. Let's be positive about this and try to move the argument on from the "Acronis Ripped Me Off/Ate My Hamster/etc." argument to "what do Acronis need to do to get a stable version of 9".

    In listing the problems we have to be careful about tackling Acronis not Microsoft issues. I have had a problem with restoring system disk backups which turned out to be XPs fault for confusing my IDE and SATA controllers on boot. I proved this by doing a straight XP install and getting the same problem then fixing it by disconnecting the non-target IDE drive and then XP or restores would successfully boot.

    Peace dudes,
    Fairy

    PS - Acronis, feel free to PM me a FOC upgrade to 10 for helping out I wont tell anyone and I'll love you forever!
     
  6. Ralphie

    Ralphie Registered Member

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    The cheque is in the mail, Fairy. :D I don't know what the in-house beta tester does but it's not a thorough job. I remember in one of the builds in version 9 within five minutes of my making the Rescue CD and testing the Clone function I saw that the progress bars were not showing even though the process was taking place and was successful. Go figger! :cool:
     
  7. scaa

    scaa Registered Member

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  8. tachyon42

    tachyon42 Registered Member

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  9. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    The justification for fixes to TI 9 is simple, retaining market share.

    The functional changes to TI 10 would not be justification for most folkes to get TI 10 for CURRENTly owned systems.

    Keeping those users happy with TI 9 might entice them to get TI 10 for future systems.

    And if there are indeed bugs in TI 9 adversely impacting current users, if fixes are not forthcoming, most sensible users will just move on to other products on their current systems, and, most certainly, not purchase TI 10 for future systems.
     
  10. Antarctica

    Antarctica Registered Member

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    Agree with you Howard. Right now I just relax and wait to see what Acronis will do the next couple of weeks or month.
     
  11. max0071

    max0071 Registered Member

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    Desertion by the most faithfull!!!!!!!

    It appears that numerous gurus who have been faithfull and loyal to this room are no longer prepared to post. ATI you just lost your biggest asset.

    As I understand it all they want is ATi's assurance that they will support ATI 9.1 rather than leaving it and moving on to 10. This is a reasonable request. Many have spent numerous hours helping ATI iron out their deficiences and have suggested fixes for these inadequacies. However instead of incorporating the laborous work by others they ignore em and just move on to 10......mmmmm ............. could it be the $$$$$. Me thinks that image backup in Vista is scaring you ....... although I hail your program, you have taken for granted your most valuable assets the Guru Posters.........respectfully.........shortshighted.

    ATI your best asset is the gurus within this room who have now chosen to be non participants because ATI chose not to support 9 after the construcitve work done by others. Their point is well taken. I would also not participate, however that would be no loss to anyone as I am without knowledge. But we are losing the most valuable part of this room.

    ATI DO SOMETHING..........you are shooting the golden goose!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2006
  12. max0071

    max0071 Registered Member

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    Re: Desertion by the most faithfull!!!!!!!

    After just reading the Vista backup image program.....ATI should have concerns, but instead of satisfying the many faithfull posters and incorporating their suggestions......you ignore and move on to 10. Personally I am gonna use 9.1 and then check out Vista. ATI, by your shortsightedness you may be a dinasour.
     
  13. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    Hi Alexsandr

    I think we have been a very patient lot. Just to be clear, what is being sought here is an indication on whether or not you intend to fix the outstanding bugs in V9. That is just a policy decision and two weeks have elapsed after your "few days" estimate. I would be very grateful for some information on this, otherwise I will be bowing out of this forum and boycotting V10 and beyond.

    F.
     
  14. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Yes indeed. This is clearly an Acronis policy issue that ought not to take this long to resolve. Alexsandr posted his reply on Sunday 22nd October and I intended to wait until this coming Monday before chasing up Acronis' formal position regarding this matter. As Acronis Support have stated that they are concentrating on replying to TI 10 queries, it may take a Private Message to obtain a response.

    In my Post #55, I also asked Acronis Support whether the known "hardware-independent" problems had been fixed in TI 10.0 Home. To date, I've not seen or heard anything to suggest that this is the case. Any TI 10.0 users out there able to confirm either way?

    Regards
     
  15. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    It is pointless to continue to ask Acronis this question.
    All they can say is:

    1. "We have not yet made a decision", which oft means, after some period of time, "Hey dude, don't you get it, we're not gonna do xxx".

    2. "We expect to do xxx by [fill in date]", but Acronis is obviously not (yet) willing to make this statement.

    3. "Sorry, we are NOT gonna do xxx". Acronis does not want to make this statement as it will obviously have an adverse impact on their revenue.

    IMNSHO, if TI 9 works for you on current systems, there's little need to upgrade on current systems. If you need to get a backup program for another system, consider TI 10, amongst the alternatives, and consider the responsiveness of Acronis on this and other issues.
     
  16. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    Howard

    you seem to be saying that if the product you paid for doesn't do what the manufacturer told you it would do, then its fine to part with more cash to get the next version.

    If you paid money for a car which said it came with SatNav fitted, and when you got the car home you discovered the SatNav didn't work, presumably you'd wait for the next version of the car to come out and buy that hoping that the SatNav worked in that one ??

    The fundamental flaw in your logic is that doing what you are advising others to do a) lets Acronis out of a contractual obligation, and b) sends them a clear signal that it is OK to move onto V11 before all the bugs in V10 are sorted.

    F.
     
  17. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Please credit me with some intelligence. I'm well aware of the options available to Acronis management :cautious:.

    This has nothing to do with the argument I have with Acronis. I've stated numerous times that TI 9.0 Home has more features than I need and that none of the reported "hardware-independent" problems unduly impact on my own backup scenario.

    My beef is that the problems I've hilighted are not peculiar to any specific hardware or installed applications and therefore, IM(Humble)O, their rectification should be fairly straightforward. After all, I would like to think that they have already been fixed in the newly released TI 10.0 Home. If they haven't, then well .......

    Anyway, my position remains as previously stated. Namely, if Acronis Management decide to abandon TI 9.X in its current state then I'm no longer prepared to spend my time supporting their Official Support Forum. End of story.
     
  18. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    THat's the way it is.

    SOFTWARE is nearly always improperly written and has bugs that will never be fixed, or even be discovered. Read the license, etc., there is NEVER a "contract" to fix ALL problems.

    In particular, the TI 9 license states:

    They don't gotta do anything.
    Folkes can walk away to other products.
     
  19. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    Only the marketplace can force a vendor to do the right thing.
    Walk away if not satisfied.

    IMNSHO, one way for Acronis to handle this is to have a FREE distribution of TI 10 that will work ONLY on systems with TI 9 CURRENTLY installed. TI 9 must be installed, not just on media.

    Otherwise Acronis is going to find that many folkes will not get TI 10 when they add more computers.
     
  20. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    Even more flawed logic. If all software is as bad as you say (and it isn't by the way) users would be continually "walking away" and eventually noone would buy any software. Just think through what you have said. If users were being continually short-sold on their expectations don't you think the market would collapse. It is far from collapsing and the reason is that generally software producers do a pretty good job of looking after their customers' expectations. If they didn't this thread wouldn't even exist.

    F.
     
  21. MSprecher

    MSprecher Registered Member

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    In short: TI10 is as TI9 should have been. My hardware is still the same, and TI10 works smooth and reliable where as TI9 was flimsy and buggy. It would have been just decent from Acronis to refund all users who never could use TI9 as promised with a free version of TI10.

    Hours and days of investigating "hardware-problems" which turned out to be Acronis software problems could have been avoided. At least we know after hours and days of memtesting that our RAM is fine.;-)

    As far as DVD-Imaging is concerned I am quite satisfied with TI 10. One disadvantage still is, that the burning speed cannot be adjusted (reduced) for special burner-disc combinations. But validation the TI-files on the DVD+R-discs (burned at a slower speed [4x] with Nero in UDF) either from within windows or from the rescue-disk is successful.

    My two machines ASUS P4PE (1024MB RAM and IBM Thinkpad R30 (632MB RAM) can use TI10 without any error or problem.

    So all in all I had to spend 80€ for a reliable backup solution. May be that after the launch of Windows Vista TI10 becomes obsolete. I did some testing of the complete backup solution on Vista RC2 which is very promising and absolutely safe on my machines.

    Yours
    Matthias
     
  22. Atomic_Ed

    Atomic_Ed Registered Member

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    You know the way I see this whole situation is somewhat different than just an all or nothing kind of thing. I certainly understand the people who are saying that the product with the feature which were advertised and they paid good money for does not function as stated. Regardless of company policies and such, I would realistically expect a software manufacturer to make good on the support of that particular version at least to the point of the advertised features functioning correctly before retiring the version. This is something to be expected. Now I do agree that continued development of the previous version past the point of fixing the features that were advertised is not to be expected. That is what new versions are for and is how the company stays in business.

    Now looking at if from the company's point of view, develpment takes time and resources on their part and somewhere the costs have to be absorbed and by simply leaving the previous version behind and moving development efforts towards the next version they can start selling, well that makes to them more financial sense then continuing to pay to work on the old version which they can no longer charge money for. However, with this viewpoint it becomes a solution that helps the company stay profitable in the short term but does have the negative side effect of alienating the customers who paid for and expected the previous version's advertised features to work. Keep in mind that I do not feel that in this situation Acronis is trying to intentionally cause the customer base any grief but instead it seems to me that it is a finacially motivated position, at least thus far until they respond officially as to what they will do.

    Nonetheless, in either viewpoint someone is going to be in the position of what they feel is an unfair result. Either the company has to keep paying their developers to fix something that is no longer providing any further revenue, or they just move forward as it so far seems and then frustrates their loyal customers. Because this situation is in my opinion a good example of being caused by possibly wrong choices during the original development process that now have to be dealt with after the fact. Again I do not think it was intentional but yet that doesn't change the fact that people make mistakes no matter how good their original intentions may have been.

    So to me the bottom line is how should such a situation be resolved where it is at least somewhat favorable to both parties? It is really not the fault of the paying customer for whatever reason the company could not honor the advertised features and by bearing the negative impacts of such a situation should prompt the company to examine their internal processes and implement a corrective action that would prevent them from this occurring again in future developed versions. However, this is a business decision that needs to be made on their part and it seems so far no one knows what they will ultimately do. I personally really like Acronis and their products and feel they have offered some real value to me over the years. I feel disappointed as many other do with ver 9. I also do not want to see them lose alot of revenue because of whatever the misstakes were in 9, but at the same time feel that they should certainly do something more fair then just telling people with ver 9 to buy the upgrade. There should be some type of special offer for us ver 9 owners that would be fair to the customers, but also assist them with the extra costs. Maybe something like a buy one ver 10 upgrade get one free or something. Doing something like that would take the sting out of the existing ver 9 customers having to just pay more money to get their previously advertised features working, which at the same time help Acronis in their extra costs by providing them with some revenue.

    Anyhow, whatever they decide to do will certianly have an impact on things whether it is the short term or long, but I just feel a fair decision such as what I have suggested may be the best type of action here with minimal hardships in the end for both parties.

    In the end I like many others here do not want to see Acronis have any difficulties but I also do not want to see us the customer suffer from their mistakes either. Fair is fair and hopefully they will come to a fair decision because I do believe Acronis is a good company.
     
  23. TheWeaz

    TheWeaz Registered Member

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    For me, it’s simple. I’m not going to spend another $30 for version 10. Acronis will have to make me a better offer than that.
    If version 9 is no longer supported, and that’s what I run, there’s no reason for me to hang around here trying to help people. I won’t have the version most of them will be using and … that’s the job of Acronis support.
    If people can’t get help from other users here, they’ll be SOL waiting for an even more backlogged support response. Bad business for Acronis.
    I don’t claim to be a wiz kid by any means, but I’d like to think that I may have helped a few here. As such, I think I deserve better than the response, or lack thereof, from Acronis.
     
  24. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    People do walk away all the time.

    In general, there are two pieces of software we cannot walk away from: The OS and, for most of us, MSFT Office. Anything else, walk away.

    There never has, and never will be widely used software that contractually agrees to fix all bugs.
     
  25. Atomic_Ed

    Atomic_Ed Registered Member

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    I hope you decide to stick around regardless, as you do help alot of people here and I feel that is a very admirable thing regardless of whether a company deserves it or not. It is the people you are helping that makes the difference. That was only a possible suggestion I was making and hopefully they will offer something better to your liking.
     
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