What a Fright - ATI failed me for the first time in years!

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by herojig, Apr 18, 2006.

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  1. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    Well I had a fright today, somehow my C drive went belly up (did a check disk and watched thousands of security IDs being replaced) so I pulled out my ATI CD and since I do incrementals every 2 days, no problem.Or not...the last incremental gave me a "archive corrupt" message so I just prayed for another 55 minutes while the next to last incremental finally worked. So C drive is now back in order and no big deal but my question is how could this happen. It could have been more serious, ie. I did a lot of changes in the past 4 days, or there was something irreplaceable that got lost. And how to prevent in the future? I am using v9 now and was using v8 since the beginning with little to no problems.

    Any help on this one? I would hate to turn on system restore again and go to a double backup system with something like Ghost....:blink:

    thanks,
    jigs
     
  2. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello herojig,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    Please make sure that you use the latest build (3567) of Acronis True Image 9.0 Home which is available at: http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/support/updates/

    To get access to updates you should create an account at:
    http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/my/
    then log in and use your serial number to register your software.

    Could you please clarify whether you create an image within Windows or in rescue mode?

    Please tell us where your image is saved to.

    Please also try to verify images created from under Windows using Acronis True Image 9.0 Bootable rescue CD and vice versa.

    Please let us know the results.

    Thank you.
    --
    Tatyana Tsyngaeva
     
  3. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Did you in fact restore to your original C drive? Given the circumstances you describe my first step would be to pull the old C drive and restore to a replacement drive. You could then mount the old drive and use the manufacturer's diagnostic tools to determine whether it should be binned and/or replaced under warranty.
    If your old drive has physically failed that could well explain why your most recent incremental did not work. Do you have your backups verified after the creation process?
     
  4. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    thanks all for the advice, but yes i have the latest, and I thought I have verify checked on creation (backups go to an external USB drive every other day automatically from windows). But now I think something has gone wrong with XP, as after I got an incremental from 4 days ago to work, I ran a checkdisk with /fix and I got thousands of these errors: Replacing Invalid Security ID with Default Security ID for file: xxxxxxxx. Looking on the web I see that Microsoft has a hotfix but you have to call them for it? That's not going to happen from Nepal, where the King just gave us back our mobiles. Looks like live update may have messed things up, not sure. So perhaps that was the problem, but I sure wish Acronis had just not backed up the faulty disk, and told me about the problem BEFORE I made the archive. I don't know how long this has been a problem, so I don't know if going back further will even help. I was assuming that between Acronis and Diskeeper, everything would take care of itself. I guess here's a suggestion for Acronis: check the health of a disk before backing it up!
    jigs
     
  5. beenthereb4

    beenthereb4 Registered Member

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    What hotfix do you need? I may be able to get it for you.

    Edit: PM me the hotfix and your email address.
     
  6. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    Thanks again all. So I went back an increment, ran chkdsk /f again, and I get this AGAIN: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/831374/#ECAEAAA

    The SIDS are being replaced by XP and that really hoses things up. I tried to replace all the SIDS with an MS tool, and that just locked me out of the system (never give a monkey a sharp knife). So I am going back another increment to see if the condition exists there. I know I am a conspiracy theorist, but I am starting to suspect ACRONIS! What else would be messing with these SIDs? Virus? I think not as I also a fanatic about that. Diskeeper messing with my MFT (it has an option for that)? No, have not done that one but I will check to see if it's full next time the system comes up. The reason I suspect ACRONIS is that it must have code that does this for it's cloning feature, no?

    Xpilot, I don't want to be pulling this system apart unless I have to right now (deadlines approach although they are different here in Nepal - days not hours) and I think the drive is fine, as checkdisk will replace the SIDS and things are good except XP is inop after that (programs don't have access to the files they need). I just need to figure out how to repair that problem....


    I am going back yet another increment to see if any of my archives are any good...I have a half dozen or so....

    thanks for any help...
     
  7. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    uh oh, it just gets worse. every other increment is corrupt. at least i get a message that says it is, at random points during the restore. i think it's time to grab those old ghost disks whenever i get this resolved...i tried to verify the archive but it will take 12 hours! i can rebuild the entire C drive in that amount of time, so that's useless. now i am worried....
    jigs
     
  8. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    did that, thanks!
     
  9. paultwang

    paultwang Registered Member

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    Avoid Diskeeper's boot-time defrag. There is a good chance it will mess up security descriptors. Then it's garbage in garbage out for your image archives.
     
  10. paultwang

    paultwang Registered Member

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    Do you verify images after they are created?
     
  11. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    Well, I could have sworn that I had the checkbox checked in the default settings, but I just looked, and no!

    Okay, so I am a dufuss. But now what? I had one good archive out of 7 increments! The version of C drive I am on now works great - until I run checkdisk /f and the SIDs are replaced and then the entire systeme is hosed (I think).

    Anyone know a way of repairing SIDs or preventing them from being replaced? I mean this a dream machine and everything else is fine. It's an editing bay for our studio with all kinds of special hardware/software that took weeks to construct. Reinstalling windows would be a major setback, I think if I understand the repair option in XP - looks for all the hardware drivers, and requires reinstall of all the software.

    Any help here is REALLY appreciated, as you know Nepal is a poor country ....blablabla....:)
    jigs
    :blink:
     
  12. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello herojig,

    First of all, please be aware that backing up a corrupted disk\partition should not affect the resulting image integrity in any way.

    Please also note that there is no chance of having one "good" incremental image out of 7. The point is that each subsequent incremental image is based on the initial full and all previously created incrementals (i.e. contains only the data changed since last full or incremental image has been created). Therefore if you, for example, successfully restored fifth incremental image then the intial full image along with the first, second, third and forth incremental images are not actually corrupted. For instance, if second incremental image was corrupted then you could only restore the initial full image or the intial full along with the first incremental image.

    Could you please clarify where you store your images?

    Did you create these images when Acronis True Image 9.0 Home was running from under Windows or when your computer was booted from Bootable Rescue CD?

    Please verify your images by means of the embedded Validate Backup Archive tool both when Acronis True Image 9.0 Home is running from under Windows and when your computer is booted from Bootable Rescue CD. Let us know the result.

    Please also perform a memory test using the memtest86+ utility and inform us about the result.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexey Popov
     
  13. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    I don't know if a repair install is the answer but it doesn't remove your software. It does remove all Windows Updates however. As you have an image to fall back on, you have nothing to lose.

    http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_repair_install.htm
     
  14. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    Thanks Alexey, too bad it does not make it better!:) I know, we users expect the impossible...

    Ha! Well it happened here...the middle increment was the only one that would restore the image. But I hear you, perhaps the drive the backups are on is bad, or for some reason the archive cannot be read properly? but the drive has been tested to death for any hardware problems. It's clean (all images are stored on Samsung IDE in USB case).


    All images are created using V9 while running windows, either on schedule or manual.


    Uh, ok, do you mean "Check Archive" Tool? And how do I run under windows from the Bootable Rescue CD? Looks like a fancy dos shell to me...:)


    Thank YOU Alexey! The mem test is downloaded and I am just waiting for a fresh full backup to complete (with Check Image Checked) so I will post all results in an hour or two....or maybe 12 if verify archive really takes that long!

    jigs
     
  15. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    thankls Brian, but my exp is that while it does not remove the software, it does little to make it work...reinstalls required, reactivations, etc...

    but u did give me an idea, the archive that is restored was in the middle of a cummulative security update, so maybe one of the hotfixes got hosed. i guess removing them all and starting over would not be a bad idea. i am making a fresh backup of what i have left now, and perhaps i will give it a try unless i get a better idea for repairing corrupt SIDS, that I know are there...
    jigs
     
  16. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello herojig,

    It seems to me that what you use is not the latest build of Acronis True Image 9.0 Home. The point is that starting from the build 3567 the embedded Check Archive tool was renamed to Validate Backup Archive tool. This tool was named Check Image in versions 7.0 and 8.0 only.

    Actually, there is no need to run Bootable Rescue CD from under Windows, especially since it is not possible. I meant that you should try checking\verifying\validating image archive using Acronis True Image from under Windows then boot your computer from Acronis True Image Bootable Rescue CD, check this particular image archive once more and inform us about the results of both tests.

    I'm afraid that it is just not possible. If the "middle" incremental image was the only one that would restore the image archive then the initial full image along with all previously created incremental images are not corrupt. If selecting the next to the "middle" incremental image resulted in the error message stating that the image is corrupt then this particular incremental image is corrupt and therefore can not be restored as well as any other incremental created after this particular corrupted image.

    Yes, the faulty hard drive, controller or cable might be the reason.

    Based on what I said above, I would recommend you to update or upgrade (if you use an older version) to the latest build (3567) of Acronis True Image 9.0 Home, create new set of images and let us know if the problem appears again.

    Please uninstall any previously installed build\version by following Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Add or Remove Programs -> Acronis True Image, prior to installing build 3567.

    Note that you should create new Bootable Rescue CD after installing the update.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexey Popov
     
  17. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    Re: What a Fright - BUT ATI NOT AT FAULT

    Well Alexey, u were right, I had an older Recovery CD mixed in with the new. So now all verifies with new cd, but ya have to understand from my V8 expeirence with all those USB problems that I had, I would find a good build and keep the CD! So now, it's not Ati that's failed, but in all my backups I have this corrupt SID problem. I don't know what to do, I only have two weeks backup and a fresh install image from months ago, and the gap inbetween is critical to the business at hand. But then again there is another country-wide strike tommorrow, so perhaps it's time for a reinstall...unless there is anyone out there that knows a better way fix this SID problem...

    Again, thanks, you guys are great and I am truly sorry I ever mentioned going back to ghost, that's a real hell, I remember.

    jigs
     
  18. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    Just saw this post, and it seems the most likely explaination, I guess I should go to that forum and ask Diskeeper support for some advice. all my archives had this problem. I figured out a way to reset all the SIDs: convert C: ntfs to fat32 and then back to ntfs using norton partition magic, but that causes other problems with installed software. hmmm....o_O

    anyone know the risk of just running the primary OS on a fat32 drive? that would also solve my problem. thanks,
    jigs
     
  19. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    NTFS is more robust and provides, encryption, access-control, files >4GB, etc. However, if none of these is a showstopper then FAT32 is fine. I personally know people who run FAT32 for everything without any problems.

    I run NTFS but I can't remember really having any serious trouble with FAT32 in the past, at least nothing the occassional chkdsk or equivalent couldn't fix. Not like the older days when cross-linked files in FAT16 and earlier seemed to be a common problem. That's where Peter Norton gained his fame and fortune.
     
  20. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    Well, the reality is that I cant go to fat32 at the moment, as it messes up other programs big time, like BORIS RED, which won't reinstall after I convert to fat32. I guess they use the SIDs for authorization or something. So, I am faced with figuring out a way to repair/delete the SIDS without using chkdsk, which after using with /f, destroys the system. I have a deadline at the moment, a large video project, or I would just reinstall windows and most of my programs. So is there a quick fix out there? thanks!!!
    jigs
     
  21. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    Could be that Boris Red wants NTFS just because a 4GB boundary for a video file might be rather restrictive.
     
  22. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    that makes sense! I bet I have a lot of programs like that, as this is an editing bay. the point is that i can't go there, so now what? everyonce in a bit i see that windows automatic updates is trying to download a fix, i hope this is the one.... i am okay as long as i remember to cancel chkdsk when i reboot, but now Diskeeper won't defrag until chkdisk runs so i think this machine is falling apart rapidly. arg....
     
  23. pol098

    pol098 Registered Member

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    I don't know if this helps, but there's a free tool for changing the SID of a Windows computer: "NewSID is a program we developed that changes a computer's SID. It is free, comes with full source, and is a Win32 program, meaning that it can easily be run on systems that have been previously cloned. NewSID works on Windows NT 4, Windows 2000, Windows XP and Windows .NET Server.

    Please read this entire article before you use this program. "

    http://www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/NewSid.html

    I haven't myself used this program, but Sysinternals are very good. HTH!
     
  24. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    I just noticed this post.

    I had a similar experience recently. A used boot C drive on one of my Windows XP systems died. I had a backup made the day before which I had verified, but it wouldn't restore. It verified later also after I restored another image that was a few days older.

    My guess is that the drive was corrupt when I made the unrestorable image the day before the failure. Of course, that was the day when I was working fast and didn't error check the drive before backing up. If I had, I would either have been able to fix the errors and have created a restorable backup, or I would have found the serious problems before the surprise crash a day later.

    I always advise my clients to do an ErrorCheck before creating an image. I guess I give good advice and should take it. :)
     
  25. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

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    Well folks we should problally close this thread down now as the problem was not with ATI per se, but with bad Security IDs that were backed up over and over again. This was finally fixed by converting the drive to Fat32 and back to NTFS using norton partition magig v8. That left just one program inop, BORIS RED, that must have used the SID for authentification. The program won't reinstall now, but I will take that up with their support staff.

    My only regret is that ATI does not check first for this situation, bad SIDS that would get replaced/deleted when chkdsk /f runs. Perhaps in a future release....
    jigs
     
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