VPN provider that doesn't log and it's a FACT?

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by Gnikf, Nov 20, 2012.

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  1. Gnikf

    Gnikf Registered Member

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    I have an issue with simply having to trust someone on their word. Usually trust is the weak point where most things fail.

    So is there a VPN provider where we know for a fact, that they don't log?
    Is there a way for any of them to actually prove it technically?
     
  2. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    No, there's not.
     
  3. The_Scour

    The_Scour Registered Member

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    Ultimately, there is just no way to determine that. Commercial VPN providers really should subject themselves to independent security audits to back up their claims. Sadly, we don't see that. The end user can only take them at their word, and that's ultimately very dangerous. A VPN is ALWAYS a network of trust. Some may certainly be more credible than others, however.

    To be sure, "No Logs" for many, is nothing but a shameless marketing slogan.

    Consider that depending on jurisdiction, VPN providers may be required by local laws to log certain information, albeit simple connection logs that perhaps are only retained for a short duration.

    VPN's also must have the ability to stop spamming, dissemination of viruses, DoS attacks, and perhaps more, that use their service as a platform. It is difficult to imagine how that could be accomplished without some type of logging. That said, it makes tall claims like "No logs" very suspect, indeed.

    Further, it is also worth considering what a VPN's compliance policy may, or may not be. In other words, to what extent will they comply with investigations, subpoenas etc. What information are they required to hand over to the authorities, under what circumstances,and to whom? So much of that simply is not known.

    You trust your bank with your money and your financial records. And you are trusting a VPN with your traffic.

    That is the weak link in the chain. We can only be betrayed by someone we trust.
     
  4. LockBox

    LockBox Registered Member

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    Would you ask if anybody knew of a pharmacist that dispensed the right prescription cough syrup - and it's a fact? Even in that heavily regulated industry, there's no way anybody could state with 100% certitude that the medicine inside a bottle is what the pharmacist said it was. Trusting others is a part of life. No way around it. So, to your question, mirimir said it best: No, there's not.
     
  5. JimmySausage

    JimmySausage Registered Member

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    Good point on the pharmacy analogy. However, when it comes to security -as Steve Gibson says, "TNO". Trust No One!
     
  6. Taliscicero

    Taliscicero Registered Member

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    Perfect-Privacy & BolehVPN are my most trusted as they both to my knowledge keep all user payment data off-shore where none of their VPN servers are UP.
     
  7. The_Scour

    The_Scour Registered Member

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    This isn't particularly new, but Indymedia reported some pretty chilling news about Perfect-Privacy last May.

    http://de.indymedia.org/2012/05/330387.shtml

    Operators like that certainly don't suit my tastes, and maybe it is that political affiliations have little to do with one's ability to run a secure high quality VPN service.

    But I did walk away with the conclusion that at the end of the day, there's probably more that we DON'T know about VPN services than what we DO know.
     
  8. LockBox

    LockBox Registered Member

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    Dirty little secret #1: Many VPN services are run by people with unorthodox politics, social viewpoints, etc. They run the service to crowd their own traffic. Politics aren't discussed on this board anyway.
     
  9. The_Scour

    The_Scour Registered Member

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    Thanks, Lockbox. Your point is absolutely valid. There are VPN services that do so to provide cover traffic for their own activities.

    But "politics?" We don't discuss politics? Au contraire'. This isn't about politics, per se, this is a free speech issue regarding transparency about VPN services, what we know about them, and moreover what we don't know. This is information that is certainly available to everyone should they wish dig deeper and look for it, but this is the type of thing that people would certainly want to know when choosing a VPN service. And the Perfect Privacy story goes a whole lot deeper than that. By the way, I have no grudge against them. But ultimately, who they are, and what certain individuals have done must stand the light of day. That applies to all VPN services.

    But I'll take your cure and zip it up.

    :)
     
  10. marktor

    marktor Registered Member

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    As everyone else had pointed out there is really no way to be 100% sure that a VPN provider does not log. That being said I have alot trust in BolehVpn other ones I believe really do not log are PRQ,IPredator and AirVPN. If a VPN accepts bitcoins I also believe that can possibly be a good sign they really are concerned about your anonymity. Also BolehVPN even offers instructions on their own website on how to connect to connect to their VPN through Tor. In other words the logs on their end even if they kept them would show the IP of the Tor exit node instead of your IP. A VPN that gives you info on how to do this right on their website in my book really cares about you having real anonymity. While you cant be 100% sure of a VPN not keeping logs I believe there are things you can look for that are signs the provider really does care about anonymity. Just my opinion though.
     
  11. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    Good point. This topic is closed.
     
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