VPN payment

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by soty, Jan 14, 2013.

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  1. soty

    soty Registered Member

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    Hi

    I was interested in buying a VPN, wel it was Boleh VPN but unsure beause they only accept paypal.

    Just wanted wanted to know whats the best method for paying for a VPN ? paypal ? is any other VPN providers would anyone recomend?

    thankz
     
  2. happyyarou666

    happyyarou666 Registered Member

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    i would never pay with paypal EVER!!!!!!

    ask is they offer cash over mail or bitcoin, they should if theyre members anonymity is of any importance to them at all


    mullvad and airvpn offer cash over mail and airvpn includes bitcoin as well, mind you it takes a couple more hoops to go through to pay anonymously with bitcoin but its very much possible
     
  3. PaulyDefran

    PaulyDefran Registered Member

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    Mullvad does BTC as well. I didn't know Air did cash...you sure?

    PD
     
  4. happyyarou666

    happyyarou666 Registered Member

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    oh sheeat , totally forgot air only does bitcoin , lols got that mixed up with mullvad , my bad, but maybe they would if contacted youd have to send em a pm , since i dont know i only pay in bitcoins, btw good to hear mulvad does coins as well ,
     
  5. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    I may get flack about this, but I don't think that it's worth trying to pay for your primary (connected to directly) VPN anonymously. Anyone observing your ISP traffic can see that you're using FooVPN. FooVPN knows your IP address, and it wouldn't be very hard to get your name etc if they filed an abuse report with your ISP. Maybe they'd also need a subpoena, but that's not too hard if you're being a jerk.

    In addition, whatever "anonymous" payment method that you use for your primary VPN is more vulnerable to compromise, because you've created a fairly direct connection. IMHO, save your "anonymous" payment methods for other VPNs, that you only use through the primary VPN.

    Also, I would be very careful about using "anonymous" payment methods for VPNs that you would use through Tor. I would only use cash through the mail for that. And I'd mail the cash very far from where I live. And I'd be very careful not to leave lots of my DNA on that cash, and make sure that it's loaded with random public DNA. Otherwise, I'd be deanonymizing Tor.

    With free VPNs, even if they log everything, they don't know who you are.
     
  6. happyyarou666

    happyyarou666 Registered Member

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    every bit of anonymity counts even when it might not seem worth the extra effort, thats why as i said its possible to anonymize bitcoins, just gotta whirl em through a good washer 2-3 times over tor and you good , how to get da coins, well as ive explained once, just buy em through mail using a valid randomly generated digitized stamp instead of address ,more hoops = better, hardly backtrackable if you ask me

    btw you pay for your vpn over tor , not with your real ip , you can do this for both your primary and secondary vpn, now i know you connect to your first vpn with your isp ip , but still id rather not involve any risks

    the second vpn will never see your real ip anyhow and thats the one you use for net


    no dna obfuscation required, if you want you can use gloves ,lols
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  7. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    What Bitcoin for cash through mail service do you use?

    I "accidentally" drop the money I'll use in a fast-food place, and then "accidentally" walk on it. I pick it up using a fresh napkin, and put it in an envelope. Then, using gloves, I transfer it to a clean envelope, working outside.
     
  8. luciddream

    luciddream Registered Member

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    Cash money... with no personally identifiable info. given in the process (i.e. envelope via physical mail with no return address)

    Unfortunately... such services aren't exactly easy to come by. In fact I know of only 1 off-hand.
     
  9. luciddream

    luciddream Registered Member

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    LOL... got a nice chuckle out of that one.

    Not a bad idea though, if you're out of town doing something anyway, to mail your payment in from there while you're at it so the postmark is from somewhere else.
     
  10. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    I got the DNA idea from some cypherpunk novel. It was by Doctorow, I think (or maybe Gibson).
     
  11. happyyarou666

    happyyarou666 Registered Member

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    i use the ilusive , buy bitcoins from an reknown seller that i contact over temporary tormail account , both identies unknown to eachother , he give me the mailing address over privatenote one time click disposable link, i add the address to the envelope , then i go and buy a random generated digitized poststamp thats non backtraceable over tor at our mail office website with a prepaid card bought with paper bills, ive charged onto my anonymous phone card , receive the sms ,add the digits to the blacked out envelope ,thats


    the inside aka you cant tell just by looking at it or feeling it that theres money in it , then i add the money that ive gotten fresh from the atm machine ..with gloves at night time , the rest is self explanatory as ive already explained above , that way youll never ever get any dna or possible cam recording that would be of any relevance on you while at the bank, thats unless your messy while packin the money in the envelope but thats up to you , be creative , anonymisation through layers :cool:



    "I "accidentally" drop the money I'll use in a fast-food place, and then "accidentally" walk on it. I pick it up using a fresh napkin, and put it in an envelope. Then, using gloves, I transfer it to a clean envelope, working outside."


    lmfao that was a hilarious picture just now and i asume for every time you renew your subscription you visit a different fast food place,they must know you by now , the guy that walks all over his money while dropping it around randomly , lols xD
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2013
  12. ComputerSaysNo

    ComputerSaysNo Registered Member

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    LOL you guys....

    I pay by paypal, nothing wrong with it. Besides it helps the suites out with paperwork LOL :argh: .
     
  13. happyyarou666

    happyyarou666 Registered Member

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    paypal ...for vpn purchase , oh hell no ,over my dead body ,when its one thing NOT to purchase with paypal its a vpn , for everything else that doesnt require anonymity sure go ahead use paypal , never had a problem with it , again not for vpn purchase , DO NOT DO IT!


    btw once you get your bitcoin wallet up and running its like paying with paypal , just takes a couple extra hoops to get there , thou hardly an effort ;)
     
  14. PaulyDefran

    PaulyDefran Registered Member

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    Cool last posts :D Look, for 99% of us upstanding people on here, we just do this because it's fun to practice. But if it's ever needed...

    I agree with mirimir, but also agree with happy :D

    I still think it helps when *you* aren't the target on a direct connect, one-hop. There's nothing in their bank records, so that's one less 'trail'. Are there others? Sure, probably, but every little bit helps IMO. It's still legal to pay anon, so why not, it's fun to do it...we're all 'Power Users" :D

    And remember, there are a lot of people who think it *wasn't* Bruce Ivans...so those methods above, should be just fine, LOL.

    PD
     
  15. ComputerSaysNo

    ComputerSaysNo Registered Member

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    You know there are a few people sitting in a dark room somewhere putting together all your bitcoin transactions
     
  16. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Yes, I've read that paper :(

    Ron and Shamir (2012) Quantitative Analysis of the Full Bitcoin Transaction Graph
    -http://eprint.iacr.org/2012/584.pdf

    What's rather frightening, actually, is that my Bitcoins are so well laundered that they're associated with everyone but me. And some of them are totally up to no good ;)

    Edit: It's actually worse. They're associated with others that go out of their way to thoroughly launder their Bitcoins :eek:
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  17. ComputerSaysNo

    ComputerSaysNo Registered Member

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    Whats the point? They will put a track and trace on your line and they will know what VPN you use. It's fine laundering but then your placing your trust in another party, I'd laugh if they ran off with your bitcoins.
     
  18. luciddream

    luciddream Registered Member

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    Oh, I love Cyberpunk... one of my favorite genres (books & films). Big fan of Gibson's "The Sprawl" trilogy.

    Anyhow, this thread is getting downright comical now. Glad I didn't click on this link whilst drinking milk...
     
  19. luciddream

    luciddream Registered Member

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    Yeah, and money even has those little strips in them, or used to anyhow. I remember pulling them out. They can probably uniquely identify you that way... find out which bank it came from.

    ... then hunt down each person from there on out that came in contact with it until getting to the end of the line. From some convenience store, to a bar, then in a strippers g-string, to a nail salon, then used to buy a bootleg copy of Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer staring Stacey Keach... they'll get to you eventually.

    So you see there really is NO absolute, 100% way to pay anonymously.
     
  20. happyyarou666

    happyyarou666 Registered Member

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    100% ....maybe not , but 99.9 , thats good enough for me

    btw computersaysno

    no nobody ever ran off with my bitcoins, bitcoins is the same as every other payment service , you gotta know who to trust and who not to , just like with vpns , takes time and research and lots of questioning and listening ;)

    @theyll put a track and trace on your line and they will know what VPN you use@



    hell if your that paranoid , might as well use a one time bitcoin wallet per transaction that only pays over the tornetwork connection with laundered bitcoins mind you its recommended to atleast have em go through 3-4 x minimum and more depending on paranoia


    @You know there are a few people sitting in a dark room somewhere putting together all your bitcoin transactions@


    good luck with that
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2013
  21. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    That's true. But first, they'd need to decide to look at me. And IRL, I don't attract much attention. I've never been arrested, I pay my taxes, I have a Facebook page, etc. I do connect to a VPN service, but I also use VPN connections for work. Although I've tested several VPN services, that's always been through my primary VPN. And I've never connected directly to Tor, I2P, etc.

    Could they trace back to me from Wilders? I'm sure that they could, but it'd require the joint cooperation of multiple providers, some of whom are very hard to even find. And this is the least secure setup that I'm still using.

    So, will they find me? I don't know. But really, why would anyone bother? Just because I'm hiding?

    I have been ripped off a couple times. But it's a risk that I'm OK with. I never bet more than I'm willing to lose ;)
     
  22. bolehvpn

    bolehvpn Registered Member

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    We accept Liberty Reserve too btw but we're looking into accepting Bitcoins :D
     
  23. happyyarou666

    happyyarou666 Registered Member

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    good to hear that , keep it up boleh
     
  24. PaulyDefran

    PaulyDefran Registered Member

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    Good deal Boleh!

    Wow, I'm surprised that every member of Anonymous hasn't been rounded up by now...what with the omnipotence of our overseers :D

    Ah well, your opinion is as valid as mine, cheers!

    PD
     
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