VMWare Player vs FDISR

Seasonal Greetings to all here and at Wilders.

wilbertnl and Peter.
The latest is that I have now managed to install the OS on the virtual machine in VMWare. The 3 disks and the ISO just wouldnt do it, so have put together another one using nLite, and it boots fine now. Very strange, but to be fair, VMware do say that there can be difficulties with certain hardware setups, and recommend using an ISO. No idea why my ISO wouldnt work but never mind. Anyway, many thanks for your interest and help, and I am sure I will be back with more questions in the future.

PS. Santa didnt make it here this year. He took a wrong turn and ended up lost inside an ATI image of an FDR snapshot running a VMWare virtual machine inside a......

 

happy holidays guys

I have a couple questions, regarding how I could beneficially implement vmware into my system. Currently, I have two partitions on my 1st drive: c: windows server 2003 with 3 isr snapshots, and d: partition-windows xp, just for games and basic functionality. I realize that I could've installed xp on my c: partition by using an empty snapshot from within isr, but I thought it a good idea, to actually have a true second partition, for a couple reasons:
- if an os on c: had errors, I could boot over to d: and check the c: disk and try and fix errors.
- if c: had a tough virus, I could boot over to d: and kill the virus from there
- sometimes you need to boot to another partition, to move files etc that would otherwise always be in use
- if I wanted to make a partition image with acronis, it's quicker to make an image of that d: partition, rather than the whole disc

I dont see how these things could be viably done (at least in the context im speaking of) without using an os from a true seperate partition. namely:

- trying to check errors for a snapshot from another snapshot is a no go
- I do guess you could boot to another snapshot and scan the infected isr folder from there, so that might be ok
- being able to move of work with system files that are in use doesnt work as with a true seperate partition


It seems to me, that no matter the extent of virtualization capabilities, there will always be a need for that true second partition. Who agress/disagrees on this? I'm interested in hearing supported/theoretical opinions.


Now then, that being said, reading about vmware gives me some cool ideas. I am wondering at this point if working inside a virtual machine is a smooth operation, enough so to use permanently and regularly.

As regards playing games, what are thoughts on gaming from an xp install on a second partition, as opposed to playing from an xp install on a virtual machine from within server 2003, as opposed to playing games in an xp install into an isr snapshot? My thoughts in this case is thats its better from the second partition, because I can keep it tightly defragged, partition imaging wouldnt take long, and I wouldnt need that extra memory pull needed to run the virtual machine.

At the most fundamental, these questions and others yet unasked, originate from a strong desire, to maintain system stability and wield a tight managment over the system. Theres nothin quite so bothersome, as making a small mistake, rebooting to a blue screen, and thinking "oh relax, in a month i'll have everything set up again".


Could I try ubuntu (which i've been wanting to try for awhile now) with vmware?

I know of one cool usage of vmware- I could dabble with viruses As is stands now, anytime I try to deploy a virus just for fun, nod32 kills it, or one of ten other apps does. I could make a vm with no security apps and dabble with viri right from my os, rather than having to boot to a snapshot just for the purpose, could I not?

Forgive the long rants, I am trying, to grasp the capabilities and ultimately institute a permanent structure on my hard disks- even when allocating myself a "playground" I want that area to be within an unwavering structure- if that makes sense ;(

I'd like some opinions, advice, thoughts, or just whatever, even if its not relevant to what i've discussed.

thanks!

 

You prefer a separate system partition for maintenance, and that is a valid idea, other people use Bart PE for the same reason.
There is no disadvantage of your solution, other than disk space.

I have had similar ideas, and I think that working in a virtualized pc performs well, except perhaps for resource intensive applications, like high-end games or video editing.
But why would you move into a closet for your office work?
The advantage of a VM is that you can throw it away and startover without having to reboot and/or restore your system. So I lean towards using a VM for test/evaluation purpose.
Or for an application that I would rather not install on a permanent basis. (For example Quicktime bloatplayer)
I picture a few VM's with conflicting sofware and turning these VM's on/off at will. Or run at the same time...
I suggest that you give your idea a go, and share your experience with us. Nothing is more valuable than practical experience.

I'm not much of a gamer, but I understand that gamers benifit from a setup where anything that is not required for the game is disabled.
So, I would create a Windows installaton without network/security software, etc. It doesn't matter where you do that, except that when you allocate a separate partition for that purpose, you can't use it for anything else with ease. A FD-ISR snapshot would be the most efficient choice for that reason.

Do you mean Ubuntu as host or as guest?
Both ways would be possible.

Absolute, my VM is not able to reach the host, unless I create shared folders.

Your thoughts are interesting and we all enjoy thinking about pushing the limits beyond imagination. Or imagine beyond limits. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your ideas, as long as we remember that what works for one does not automatically work for the other. But it all works in some way.

 

Great points Wil- i'm glad you could give me more ideas. For me, it's all about getting a solid structure in place and leaving it be.

The xp installed over on the d: partition is offline, with only 1 on demand virus scanner. If I use this partition for double duty ( games, basic utility+ on demand manitenance) I think this in this case overrides the convenience of isr (especially considering i've got 3 or 4 snapshots on c I can use).

So then, acronis + isr + vmware - a 3 tiered recovery layer. Use acronis for partition level restore and imaging, isr so hopefully you dont need the acronis, and vmware so hopefully you dont need the isr

For instance, rather than creating or updating an isr archive or duplicate snapshot before trying questionable spoftware, you could try it on an identically built vm, and if it worked out, you could institute those changes on your host system. (I mean perform the setup that was first tried on the vm, I know things in a vm cant be applied to the host system).

Do you know if a vm can be created based on the host os, or will I have to do a fresh os install into the vm?

Thanks for the help

 

Take a look at the VMWare Converter.
I lean towards a clean installation, though, since the virtual hardware is not identical to the host hardware.

 

Motivated by a 89 year old whizzkid I installed Windows 98 in a VM, and I couldn't get the sound drivers setup in VMWare 6.
In Virtual PC 2007 sound was working right away.

All I want to say with this example is that hardware emulation could be great is it works, but also could be challenging with some operating systems.

Here is a nice function of VM's, catching boot screens.

 

Having started to play with VM, a couple of observations/questions.
1. I was hoping to install the drivers for my video and monitor in the VM but it doesnt seem to work. It just seems to run on the VM emulated drivers. I note that you guys are using your own audio drivers in your VM's. How are you doing that? My idea was to be able to use 2 monitors and have a different VM running in each VM. I have seen that this is possible using fast-switch but it doesnt seem to work on my setup.
2. Is it right that I can not have 2 VM's running if I am using just one vitual disk? I cant see where it says this, but I get some weird error message when I try and start the second VM.
3. While the drag and drop from the Host to the VM screen works fine, the Copy and Paste does not. It is configured to do this but doesnt. Anyone else have this?
4. When I am running the VM, my connection shows 1Gbps. Not bad on a 384Mbps wireless connection.....
5. Maybe I am just too old to get to grips with the complexities of VM's Born 25years too early maybe....

 

MS Virtual PC offers the feature of differencing disks. I'm able to maintain one single base disk and create derivates that hold the modifications while you work.

Sounds like you got a emulated 1Gb NIC.

You will get more excited when you discover the power of VM and got around the setup challenges.

 

Ahhhh. I was confused because I remember wilbertnl saying he could run 2 VM's in a single vHD. I dont really understand this "differencing" business, so I got the impression that this could be done on VM ware.
So what I need to do is create several vHDDs and run a VM in each one? Take a lot of space that.

Peter. On the Video and monitor business, do you see a way of intalling these in a VM? I have tried and it goes ok but when I look at the VM settings, it is still running on the VM emulation drivers. Without my video drivers, I have no chance of running the 2 screens.

wilbertnl. How are you getting on with VMware beta?
Thanks as usual.

 

Let me try to explain this.
You need to compare differencing vHD's with differential backups.
In a separate container you store all the file changes, compared to the reference container.

I created a vHD with a complete Windows installation, updated and optimized. I call that the Windows container.
Then I create two or more work containers, that only hold the files that differ from the Windows container (Temp files, changed files, new created files, additional installations, etc). Since these two work containers have their own work space which doesn't interfere with the Windows container, I have the experience of creating unlimited VM's that are based on the same installation vHD.
The Windows container is the template for my work containers.

What I like about this concept is that I'm able to create a differencing new VM, use it and throw it away.

edit: VMware features linked clones, I assume that is quite similar.

I'm not sure, I find myself switching between MS Virtual PC 2007 and VMware 6 beta and not actually make it productive and useful so far.
I'm very excited about getting to understand the power and possibilities of this virtualization of a complete system. I'm still amazed, since I assumed that a VM would run sluggish, which it doesn't. (Except when the dynamic sized vHD is expanded)
I have a lot of fun, I installed Windows 98 in a VM, and that brought lots of memories back.
But I assume that you are interested in my assessment of VMware 6, and that I don't know yet. VMware has more features, more tweaks. probably better performance when tweaked. MS Virtual PC is easy to setup and 'runs out of the box'. With standard virtual drivers I experience that MS VPC runs snappier, compared to standard virtual drivers of VMware.

Assuming that you use FD-ISR, it could be interesting for you to install the free MS Virtual PC 2004/2007 in another snapshot and experience the difference.

 

hey pete, in about another hour, i'll have vmware server downloaded- its free-why is it free, have any idea?

 

It was meant as a 'stepping-stone' to the Virtual Infrastructure.
With Server any company interested in evaluating server virtualization has access to the leading virtualization technology and makes it easy for companies new to virtualization to take the first step toward enterprise wide virtual infrastructure.
GSX + support/subscription (12mths) is 3 1/2 thousand dollars(unlimited processor license.) VMware Server costs nothing up to eight processors and comes with no support.

 

well, I managed to get vmware server installed and get win2k3 installed into the vm, but I got a small error during installation, which i'm working on sorting out- i've got some posts over on the vmware forum. initially in an attempt to get rid of the errors, I uninstalled/reinstalled a couple times, and managed to render my system unbootable. Unfortunately, i'd forgotten to update my isr snapshot, and this was the snapshot on which I had EVERYTHING installed. So, I did a repair install of windows into this snapshot, and I had it back up and running in no time, after which I promptly created a duplicate snap of the system. It was cool, how my other small snapshots were still intact just as i'd left them


http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n294/nachtvarg/Forum_Bilder/Vmware_server.jpg




Wilbert, I put some thought into what you were saying the other day, about having a true second partition for maintenance vs other methods, and I decided on a compromise: Rather than keep a 40 gig second partition for maintenance/gaming, I sliced that 40 gig down to 5 gigs, gave the free space to c: for isr. I'll use the second partition only for emergency/auxillary purposes, and in c: I created an empty snapshot and installed xp into it, for which i'll play games if I want. It's nice to have snapshot flexibility with xp, as I do with server. As far as i'm concerned, I'm willing to devote nearly the whole of my 80 gig to isr, it's worth it for the flexibility and recovery purposes I gain. For acronis images, isr archives, and future vms, I have a second 200 gig sata. Have any further advice? Always appreciated ;-)

 

I have been listening to Steve Gibsons podcasts concerning Virtual Machines and in episode #59, he states that Parallels outperforms both MS Virtual PC and VMWare Workstation.

 

who's steve gibson? who am i for that matter, apart from someone writing this from a vmware dedicated snapshot, within a vm, within a vm, on which which isr is installed and im under yet another vm

 

unfortunately, my forte' isnt harvesting, my strong points lie moreso in the "stick the power line into the water and watch the fish float up" type approach ;(

I empathize with steve, however, as I am a self proclaimed expert in not a small amount of disciplines myself- chielfy amongst these being the ability to forget im not in a vm but on my actual host machine, and format my drive- rebooting to find i've lost all my snapshots and the os itself ;-(


j/k

 

ROFL