Vista is coming,Do we need AVs to the end?

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by Peak, Nov 14, 2006.

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  1. Peak

    Peak Registered Member

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    Some hearsay allege Vista is strong in security so that AVs can do less and less
    Is it?
     
  2. Peak

    Peak Registered Member

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    In other words,can AV vendors still reap profits as more as possible like nowdays?
     
  3. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    With the coming of Microsoft's own security solutions, as well as the marketing push and intentional hiding of exploits to happen in the immediate future, yes, the security vendors don't stand much to gain.

    It should, however, be noted that Microsoft seems to have come to an agreement with security vendors regarding the kernel protection in Vista that was supposedly going to inhibit AVs. Microsoft will provide a special API to get around this protection.

    Although I'm not expecting good things from them, considering that just recently there was sufficient evidence to show that MS had hidden a security vulnerability in Windows from other vendors so they could get exploit detection first....
     
  4. Peak

    Peak Registered Member

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    yes,it is foggy
     
  5. dw2108

    dw2108 Registered Member

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    Oh! Trust me! Vista is as safe as toilet paper trying to withstand a strong wind! A good friend of mine bought his Duo Core PCs and bought into Micsosoft's security wet dream. Well, his network consisted only in 6 PCs -- only a few infected drives to FDISK!

    Dave
     
  6. ink

    ink Registered Member

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    In genernal, Vista is supposed to be safter, maybe it is true. If the design mechanism applied correctly, most of the malware will not install and function.
    But, who knows, where there is a will there is a way. The bad guys just have to study the new system first and change the old way.
     
  7. Peak

    Peak Registered Member

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    No,To be honesty,Vista is safe at present at least
     
  8. dw2108

    dw2108 Registered Member

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    No, Gates blew it big time. He allowed too many to beta test Vista in its pre-release versions, and it's holes are known. Gates WANTS his software to be easy to trash: MS announces the details each month, allegedly as "a public service (pack of critical updates)" with the disassembly instructions spelled out to the crapware writers.

    Dave
     
  9. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    I ran Vista Ultimate for over a month and even Microsofts own "Windows one care" wasn't compatable with Vista and wouldn't install?? Good planning huh?
     
  10. Peak

    Peak Registered Member

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    But,How do Virus&Worms&Trojans deal with PatchGuard?
     
  11. n8chavez

    n8chavez Registered Member

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    That must be their plan; if nothing is compatible with Vista and nothing will run than there should be no worry for malware. Right? Nice one M$oft. But seriously there was an article at Betanews that was on this very topic. (see here) I guess there was a little misinterpretation of his words in a previous article. He does believe you need protection with Vista. But let's not forget how revolutionary everyone thought CP was too. Just give it time and exploits will be discovered.
     
  12. VikingStorm

    VikingStorm Registered Member

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    AVs will never die as long as the OS can run applications. At the heart of the function of the AV is to act as a blacklist. Just because a user is prompted does not mean the user knows any better than to click yes. I would argue that even having to put in an admin password (like root) to install anything would not deter most malware installations.
     
  13. the Tester

    the Tester Registered Member

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    My way of looking at it is simple.
    Trust MS for security?No way.
    If it comes down to third party security programs or a new MS operating system,I'll keep XP.
     
  14. Wai_Wai

    Wai_Wai Registered Member

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    A definite no. They will still have a place.

    Security is a losing battle for the defender. It is just the nature of computing. A security guru once expressed it won't be worried about losing its jobs since security will keep being breached and breached. They need to catch up

    I'm sure vulnerabilities will be found and its security protection will be breached in future. We re yet to find a cure-all security solution.

    Some facts about security:
    - every software which is complex than HelloWorld must have bugs/vulnerabilities
    - every famous software (eg Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia, anti-virus programs/firewall/anti-spyware) has been cracked and stolen by crackers
    - it is not hard to write a malware which can bypass all anti-virus programs. A malware is just a program after all. The same code can be used in good deeds or bad deeds, so it is never easy to write a line between good-ware and mal-ware
    - There is a thread (but I forget the link) which someone found a real malware, in which it can bypass all anti-virus programs. If memory serves, this malware targets at German only (that person said the malware writer doesn't know German,and they use translators to translate from English into German).
    - Microsoft security researchers are warning about that threat. They are the threat which involve the use of rootkit technology which is almost impossible to detect using current security products. This could pose a serious risk to corporations and individuals

    I am sure the same level of bad news will happen to Vista in future. It is just a matter of time.
     
  15. mercurie

    mercurie A Friendly Creature

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    "hearsay" :p

    LOL! :D
     
  16. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    No OS can protect against malware that might do nasty things to your file, etc.
    At best it can protect the OS and critical apps from getting messed up.
     
  17. Peak

    Peak Registered Member

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    AVs will never die as long as the OS can run applications
     
  18. farmerlee

    farmerlee Registered Member

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    People will be using xp for many years to come so av vendors will still be doing strong business. Not to mention the fact that hardly anyone would trust MS for all their security needs.
     
  19. Peak

    Peak Registered Member

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    yes
    while there is scarcely a AV but has its weak side.
     
  20. QBgreen

    QBgreen Registered Member

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    From all corners, Vista will be initially much tougher for amateurs to assault. However, as I write this, some or several non-amateur hackers/groups have a pirated copy of RTM Vista and are finding holes/weaknesses. Bet on it. I'll wait the same year's time that I waited when XP was released and watch the show before I even consider going to Vista.
     
  21. FluxGFX

    FluxGFX Registered Member

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    Just though I'd share my .2 cents with everyone about the up coming vista...


    Stay clear of vista for at least 1year maybe 2. From running the final release of vista from our network here at the labs we've seen alot of problems with it. (It's not work compatible at this present time with a lot of the industries work standard outside of the Microsoft line of products). If you really get into the security of the system, sure it's more robust then XP, but believe me when I say that it still can get infected and still cause chaos. It's just a sad reality.


    I do agree that it's going to be a bit harder to circumvent the security, but as it stands right patch guard has already been defeated. (ohh there's a few Linux sites explaining how and showing video proof) cheers.

    Regards,
    fluxgfx.com
     
  22. Wai_Wai

    Wai_Wai Registered Member

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    Yes, but probably just initially due to familarity.
    As the time goes by, the bad guys will be more familar to Vista and will be able to exploit many holes like what they can achieve in Windows XP. When Windows XP first released, it is also significantly better than Windows 98. Still we need to use lots of security apps to protect Windows XP.

    Non-security-wise, we should still not jump into Vistat too early.
    Compatibility issues, I think a lot of apps can't be run in Vista, that's no point to install Vista if a lot of software developers haven't prepared for it.
     
  23. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    Folkes keep getting hung up on security holes.
    Those can indeed be plugged by proprly written OS and browsers and mail clients.

    However, there is no way to distinguish a regular app that is malicious from a non-malicious app.

    AV will always be necessary to ATTEMPT to detect malware in the latter category.

    For example, if you run the three demos at http://www.standards.com/Index.html?OfficeStuffExamples, at least 1 AV will give a false positive on one of the demos.
     
  24. Peak

    Peak Registered Member

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    Do you mean that AV in Vista will get more false-positives?
     
  25. Howard Kaikow

    Howard Kaikow Registered Member

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    Not necessarily.

    What I'm trying to say is that some malicious person might write some malware deletes files, or does other nasty things.

    On the surface, there is no way to distinguish such a bad program from one using the same functional elements in a non-nefarious way. THis is so on ANY OS.
     
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