Virtual PC softwares...

Discussion in 'sandboxing & virtualization' started by Atomas31, Jan 5, 2007.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Atomas31

    Atomas31 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Posts:
    923
    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    Hi,

    I would like to know if Virtual PC softwares will work with Rollback RX?
    Also, is there any good and free Virtual PC softwares that can works with Rollback Rx?

    Thanks,
    Atomas31
     
  2. chrome_sturmen

    chrome_sturmen Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Posts:
    785
    Location:
    Sverige
    I think basically using rollback rx wouldnt be an issue- it would have nothing to do with using a virtualization utility, as the virtual machine functions as a true pc. Anything that works on a regular computer should work on a virtual machine.

    Regarding price, vmware is free, as is microsoft virtual pc, and I think parallels is free also- all good virtualization utilities. See this thread where some of us are discussing the usage of virtual machines:

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=157504

    best of luck
     
  3. Atomas31

    Atomas31 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Posts:
    923
    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    Hi Chrome_Sturmen,

    From the three you mention only Microsoft virtual Pc seems to be free. VMWare workstation is 189.00$ US and Parallels workstation is 49.99$ US.

    Also, I don't know if I understand right but Microsoft virtual PC must be install on a Windows XP pro wich mean it doesn't work on other Windows XP than pro? Also, if I created a virtual machine with XP, I will also need a new licence for it, is it right?

    Thank's
    Atomas31
     
  4. King FN Kong

    King FN Kong Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Posts:
    134
    vmware server is free
     
  5. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Posts:
    3,187
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    isn't there significantly reduced functionality?
     
  6. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    8,697
    Hello,

    Not really. The only difference between server and workstation is the number of snapshots you take - only one. This means to achieve the same functionality like station, you need more copies of the software you're using - and if it's Windows, then more licences.

    So, if you're using server for free and Windows - you get only one snapshot at a time, this means up to 2 versions for testing. If you want 10 versions, you need 5 licences of Windows.

    If you're using station, you get unlimited no. of snapshots for 1 licence - so it pays financially for Windows testers.

    If you're a Linux fan or you don't give a squat about legal issues, then server is more than enough for you, since you can replicate your virtual machines over and over - as much as hdd space you got.

    Player is also nice - but it lacks in the drivers support, which can make some of the machines run at basic settings / performance / no 3D acceleration.

    Mrk
     
  7. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,047
    Can you do clones with VM Server? That's another way around the license issue, which indeed is an issue.
     
  8. Atomas31

    Atomas31 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Posts:
    923
    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    Hi all,


    @Mrk : When you say snapshot are your talking about virtual machine?

    I am a little bit lost so I will turn my questions (I only have Windows XP home - one licence) :
    If, for exemple, I want to make 2 virtual machine and let's say with Windows XP home (one with my actual configuration and one with just a few of my actual software on it). And from those virtual machine make test and beta test some software and have the possibility to rollback at a point before I test those beta software.

    Considering that I have Windows XP with SP 2 home (one licence) and that I don't want to invest big money :
    Wich software virtualization will respond do what I am looking (do what I want and at no cost ;-) and works on a Windows XP home as the host?

    In my scenario, will I have the need to buy extra licence of Windows or is there a way to do this without the expensive cost to buy new licences?

    Thank you very much,
    Atomas31
     
  9. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    8,697
    Hello,
    What's a clone? Copy paste the .vmx and .vmdk into another folder?
    I really can't tell you.
    Mrk
     
  10. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    8,697
    Hello,

    Atomas, you posted the same moment as I.

    Licensing - I really don't know what evil EULA MS has cooked for us. I really don't. I have bought several licenses for various Windows in my times and I feel like a sucker.

    Possibilities are: use a license that is NOT installed on real hardware and then install it in VM. Then, you can snapshot this - from within the VM - and refer to each snapshot - depending how many you have - server / station - and use the two as references for different testing. The thing is you cannot run two snapshots AT ONCE, so it's most likely ok with MS. I guess like real Windows, you can install on several machines, but only one copy will be legally usable at any give time - call it parallel instead of serial installation.

    I don't know if it's legal to copy the virtual machine and use two or more copies of it, as parallel installs, if you only have one license. This is something you should check with MS. Call them, explain your situation. It's not as if someone is going to barge into your home and check if you have several virtual machines installed.

    Maybe it is possible, but then you are allowed to use only one at the time? Who knows? Just like imaging your system. Aren't the images copies of your operating system? But you're only using ONE of those at the time, the one installed on your PC. Aren't you allowed to backup your installation CD, in case it gets damaged?

    So, it's murky and I really don't know the technical legalities to the last detail. My logic tells me you can have copies - call them backups if you wish - but may use only one at the time. This applies for emergency backups of your OS, imaging software, and also maybe VM. Similar to snapshots, they are probably legal, as long as you use ONE at the time, whether due to software limitation - VM limits you to running one snapshot at the time - or moral abstaining from breaking the law, if at all.

    Best solution? If you have money and can afford it - spare Windows for real install and VM. If you can't, call the Big Brother.

    BTW, in some countries MS permits more than a single pc install.

    P.S. I noticed I went from UK spelling of licence to US spelling of license, forgive me.

    Mrk
     
  11. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,047
    Cloning in VM Workstation, literally makes a copy of the VM. There are several flavors of clones, full, linked, and teams. Enough to boggle anyone's imagination.

    As to licensing. At least for XP, the first created VM is a new machine, and XP had to be activated. I don't think the hosts machine copy would activate. However once the first machine is running if you do a full clone, there is no activation issue, as the machines are identical

    As to snapshots yes you can have a ball. But there is a disk space penalty.

    I have a two disk VM one is 20Gig and the 2nd 10gig. Every snapshot adds a file about 1.4Gig in size.

    You also need resources. I am running a 1024gig ram VM so when I look at the host the VM process is HUGGGGGH!!
     
  12. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    8,697
    Hello,

    I run VM on two comps, one single cpu with 2GB, one with dual 1GB ram. Crazily enough, the dual core utilizes the VM much more efficiently despite the ram efficiency - two cores eh?

    I like to make small VM, about 3-4GB, at most 5-6Gb. Snapshots take much less when taken offline - when the machine is not started - only a few hundred megs rather than Gigs.

    Mrk
     
  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,047
    Hi Mrk

    Thanks for the heads up on snapshot time. I'll have to try that.

    Pete
     
  14. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Posts:
    3,187
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    lol, so are the two mutually inclusive :D I knew it. !!
    Hehehe. This is of course possible. The unbooted VM is just a file system. you can zip it as well. Any file based back-up should be able to do this. BING and IFW will image/copy the host and VM file system to an image if req.

    On a serious query: I also have some q's about installing XP to a VM.
    If I use VM converter, will my xp need to be reactivated. ??
    I dont really know the ins and outs of the million page MS EULA either, but it seems reasonable that if I want to use my XP on MY box then I should be able to.

    Regards.
     
  15. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,047
    I haven't tried a copy and paste as the files are large. That might not work as it might be seen as a totally separate machine rather than a clone. Might affect the activation issues.

    I would bet if you use VM Converter that yes your XP will need to be reactived. It is indeed different hardware. As to the EULA, if you check Microsofts site under the virtual PC, you will find indeed you do need extra licenses for each copy of XP running on a machine. A VM box is considered a different box, as you have two copies of XP running. Different then say with FDISR where only one copy can run at any one time.

    Pete
     
  16. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Posts:
    8,697
    Hello,
    If you have two copies, but run only one at any give time, do you need 2 licenses? For example, you have a virtual machine on a DVD in storage and another copy of it running on some PC. What about that?
    How about disk images and backups? They fall in the same category. OR at least, virtual machines should - as long as you run only one at any given time.
    Mrk
     
  17. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    Posts:
    3,187
    Location:
    Sydney, Australia
    Thanks Pete

    Damn. :(

    What about other paid softwares that require activation and or licence/key? Same issue?

    This could get expensive. :ouch:

    Also: I cant see exactly if this has been addressed: If I install VMWare, will FDISR on the host machine be able to snapshot/archive/copy/update the partition/'C' drive with the VM not booted as per normal usage?

    Regards.

    Edit: @MrK:
    Exactly.

    Anyone know where we can go to find out some of these issues?
     
  18. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2003
    Posts:
    17,047
    Images don't matter, you restore them on the same hardware. If you restore an image of say ATI on a new machine with universal restore, it will want reactivation..

    Check the MS stuff on virtual pC. It is pretty clear. You install XP on a VM and you need another license. Running both at the same time is irrelevant. I have 3 actuall pc's here. Right now one is one. I still need licenses for the others. Same with VM. Only when you clone the machine do you get around that. But clone a machine and change to VIsta and yes you'd need the license.

    I haven't loaded anything else that needs activation, but yes, it could get expensive.

    Pete
     
  19. Atomas31

    Atomas31 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Posts:
    923
    Location:
    Montreal, Quebec
    Exactly! Too expensive to my taste... And, I don't know if it is also the case with vmware but Microsoft virtual Pc need to be install on a Windows XP PRO not on a Windows XP HOME :(

    Best regards,
    Atomas31
     
  20. Alphalutra1

    Alphalutra1 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Posts:
    1,160
    Location:
    127.0.0.0/255.0.0.0
    No, it works on XP Home(microsoft just won't provide support for you).

    I have used it before, so I am speaking from experience here.

    Cheers,

    Alphalutra1
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.