USB 3.0 fraud

Discussion in 'hardware' started by Saved, Oct 16, 2010.

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  1. Saved

    Saved Registered Member

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    I see that there is now a USB 3.0 coming out and
    promises BIG increase in speed transfers. However this
    raises a question. When the 2.0 came out there was all the
    hype as to how it would raise transfer speed to 480MBps.
    However I have never met anyone who has obtained that speed
    in the real world, at least for any amount of time. Yes
    there may be some split second burst, but in the real world
    the 2.0 is lucky to average 1/10th the speed claimed, maybe
    around 40MBps, not 480MBps. My question is this. Since the
    3.0 is claiming to run up to 4.8 GBps and I saw some tests
    where the 3.0 really only preformed at about 200MBps which
    is about 1/24th of the claim why are these guys getting
    away with this fraud? Why not simply give real use times
    and speeds? Why not just be honest? I think our government
    needs to step in an prosecute these companies for fraud.
    What is your take?
     
  2. Cudni

    Cudni Global Moderator

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  3. pajenn

    pajenn Registered Member

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    Here's an explanation of the USB2.0 fraud:

    link: http://www.lyberty.com/tech/terms/usb.html

    In any case, USB2.0 is much much much faster than USB1.1 so much so that I cannot imagine using anything USB1.1 anymore. I image the same will be true with respect to USB3.0 vs. USB2.0 in a few years.

    What I want to know now is when will new laptops come standard with USB3.0 ports? I want to buy a new laptop soon but I see no point to buying one that has only USB2.0 ports.
     
  4. Saved

    Saved Registered Member

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    I realize that those claims are the excuses being used by the manufacturers, however when real time testing is done those excuses are found false. It is not possible to get the speeds that are claimed in any real time usage. They are falsely making claims that simply cannot be realized. I have tried it myself and there is no way to get the claimed transfers. Not even close. 1/24th of what is claimed is not acceptable. These companies need to be prosecuted by the AG's office for false advertising.
    Here is a video of some testing being done under ideal conditions and it is clear that the manufacturers are making false reports.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GTORxdmiRY
     
  5. firzen771

    firzen771 Registered Member

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    i think the advertised speed is the theoretical max speed of the technology more than it is the real life in practice speed
     
  6. Saved

    Saved Registered Member

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    Then these manufacturers should be prosecuted for fraud. They inflate the speed to get higher prices. If a car manufacturer gave a MPG from a theoretical number and claimed that number was 24 times the actual HWY mileage the government would prosecute them. The same needs to be done with these hardware companies. Any published numbers should be done with real world average speeds and with the 3.0 and that is about 20 to 30MBps instead of 5GBps as advertised. The 2.0 is just as badly advertised.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2010
  7. BoerenkoolMetWorst

    BoerenkoolMetWorst Registered Member

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    Remember Mb's is not MB's. Theoretical USB speed is in Mb's which is Megabit, MB is Megabyte. 8 bits is one byte, so theoretical speed of USB2 is only 60MB/s and USB3 600MB/s. Real speed depends on a lot of factors, the highest I ever got with USB2 was about 31-32MB/s with an external hard drive, but usb flash thumbdrives usually never go that high as the it's storage memory is not fast enough.
     
  8. firzen771

    firzen771 Registered Member

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    yes, so its not the technology at fault really, its the people making the hardware to connect through that technology arent making use of the available potential, so theyre claims about USB 3.0 speeds are correct for the most part, blame the hardware makers for not using it :D
     
  9. Raza0007

    Raza0007 Registered Member

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    These are theoretical speeds on paper and if you go through the technical details of for example, usb 2.0, the standard does indeed offer 480 mbps (60 MB/s) speeds. So, you can not sue the developers as they are indeed correct on this and they are not committing fraud.

    However in real world you can only get around 240 mbps (30 MB/s) on average from usb 2.0. Speed is lost in connectors, cables, losses in components used to construct transfer circuits etc.

    Same is the case with SATA-II standard and in fact almost all standards. usb 3 will be significantly faster than usb 2, but in real world you will never reach its max theoretical speed.
     
  10. Robin A.

    Robin A. Registered Member

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  11. m00nbl00d

    m00nbl00d Registered Member

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    I'll make an analogy, by making a simple question.

    Does any one buy one of those new milk packages or yogurts promising they have these or those bacteria great for your health? Well, no much difference from normal milk packages or yogurts really exists. It's advertising. That's what it is. It's catchy and will make most believe and buy. Goal is achieved. ;)
     
  12. firzen771

    firzen771 Registered Member

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    i guess u culd kind of think of it like a car, the rated horsepower of the engine is diff than the horsepower to the wheels because some is lost through the drive train and such, and even more so if dealing with an AWD car.
     
  13. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    Yes but all this is really disgusting.

    I just wonder why people have made lying and deceiving an essential part of success in business.
     
  14. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Well I guess you can protest by sticking with USB 2 when 3 is available,,,,or really show em, go back to using USB 1. The fact of the matter is it will be faster than it was. Thats good enough for me.
     
  15. BoerenkoolMetWorst

    BoerenkoolMetWorst Registered Member

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    This isn't a good test, as the speed is limited by the hard drive. Testing USB 3.0 with HDD's instead of SSD's will never show what USB 3.0 can do, as the HDD's are just to slow, even a lot of SSD's would probably still be to slow. Plus he is using a Green hard drive, which has lower RPM and consumes less power but is also slower. He says he used a WD green 1 TB hard drive, I've found a test of WD's first Green and it gets 76.5 MB/s max read speed, so the tester is probably using a newer green which can get up to 94MB/s.
    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wd-caviar-gp,1703-5.html

    One word: Greed.
     
  16. CloneRanger

    CloneRanger Registered Member

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    Maybe it's a bit like advertised internet speeds from your ISP, up to whatever ! But you rarely if ever get that :(

    So on paper it's possible, but in reality it doesn't happen.
     
  17. Noob

    Noob Registered Member

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    Your example is so TRUEEEE!!! :thumb: :thumb:
     
  18. Az7

    Az7 Registered Member

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    In addition to what BoerenkoolMetWorst mentioned.. read this to know the truth :) :-


    Some info..

    USB 3 0 ( 11132008 )-final.pdf
    S. 4.4.11
     
  19. noone_particular

    noone_particular Registered Member

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    Different specific item, same old game. Exaggerated numbers intended to make the user think that they're getting more than they really are. This same game has been going on with hard drive sizes as far back as I can remember.
     
  20. katio

    katio Guest

    My guess is that with usb2 they stated a theoretical throughput that is 3 times as high as real world averages to be competitive with Firewire.
    With USB3 if the 200MB/s of the benchmarks is true, they keep pretty much exactly the same ratio of theoretical vs real. At this speed it doesn't really matter, usb gadgets won't utilise it for some time, storage media usually is slower and the faster SSDs aren't used for anything but system drives. They could've advertised it as a realistic 1.6 Gb/s and it would still sound amazingly fast. But I suppose by doing so they would have admitted that the usb 2 speeds are flawed and very misleading.
    "B" vs "b" is another thing and so is "*iB" (see storage manufacturers). Confusing for the enduser but it's perfectly correct and therefore can't be labeled fraudulent.
     
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