Uninstalling AVs...

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by SimonCC, Sep 18, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SimonCC

    SimonCC Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    London
    Hi all,

    recently I have heard a lot of bad stuff about uninstalled AVs leaving behind registry values that cause conflicts. Since install, I have uninstalled Norton (came pre-installed), installed nod32 and then uninstalled it for KAV which is what I have settled with. Do you think my registry is buggered? I use Crap Cleaner, will that have made a differance?

    If I need to manually delete old AV entries, I would appreciate lots of advice on how I would do so, what to do/what not to do etc...

    thanks all,

    S.
     
  2. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    5,101
    Hi SimonCC,

    Vist The Elder Geek and click on R to seek out registry information. It is a good idea to start with the registry backup information first. I use ERUNT to backup my registry before installing new 3rd party software.

    Its very easy to do two things with registry edits:
    1) make a change, and
    2) screw up the registry if you are not very careful when making a change - always double, triple check the change to make sure it is correct.

    The "dot reg" file method, i.e. with a file suffix of .reg, can be used with notepad to open the file to read its contents (rather than double-click!!!), then after exiting notepad, double-click on the .reg file to integrate it into the registry.

    As for removing left-overs from an uninstalled AV, use regedit.exe from the Run command window, and the Find function from the Edit pull-down menu to search for the name of the AV, e.g. Norton or NIS or similar names like nod32.

    Just be careful, and always take a backup before making edits to the registry - you'll be glad you did!

    -- Tom
     
  3. Paranoid2000

    Paranoid2000 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Posts:
    2,839
    Location:
    North West, United Kingdom
    The best way to ensure proper uninstalls is to use a Registry monitoring utility like Total Uninstall (version 3 has a 30-day trial but version 2 is free) which takes before and after snapshots (just make sure you run the program after installing it, since many add registry entries when being run). The downside is if the install involves a Windows restart, then you have to filter out all the Windows-related changes which are considerable...
     
  4. Don Pelotas

    Don Pelotas Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Posts:
    2,257
    Hi Simon

    Nod usually uninstalls pretty cleanly IME, but Norton does not always. So if you want a trouble free Kaspersky experience then i suggest you do this.

    Download and install install RegSupreme, it's a regcleaner and IMO the best and most safe.

    Download a fresh copy of Microsoft Windows Script, don't install yet, the reason for reinstalling is because sometimes a Norton uninstall messes with this.

    Download the Norton removal-tool for the version you had installed, for 200-2005 symNRT, for 2003 or earlier Rnav2003 you can see all the Norton removal-tools here .

    And the latest version 5.0.388 from here if don't have that already.

    Now for the fun part............ Uninstall Kaspersky, reboot.

    Go into the programs files folder using explorer and delete the Norton and eset/nod folders probably still there. If it resists, then don't take no for an answer and use Unlocker for this (rightclick on the folder & choose Unlocker)

    Then run the Norton removal tool, after this run RegSupreme in "Normalmode" and when it is finished rightclick & choose "select al", then click "Fix" at the bottom or rightclick again. It will ask you if you want to backup and you want that, just in case.

    Now you can install Windows script and reboot. Install Kaspersky, reboot and you're done, now that was easy wasn't it? :D

    Post back if you have questions and remember that you will need your key for this operation. If you use a software firewall (other than Kaspersky's own) then take a look at this too.
     
  5. SimonCC

    SimonCC Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    London
    WOW! Thanks for the info everyone, I have copied and pasted much of it so that I can use it for future referance. I searched the registry and found no NAV remnants whatsoever. There was an entry for nod32 only. So currently, I do not know if I will go down Don Pelotas' route as its seems excessive - although as I said, it will no doubt be used one day! But I will check out regsupreme, as I have been looking for a reliable reg cleaner for quite some time now.

    Paranoid2000, you mention total uninstall and then mention one of its downfalls, could you elaborate on it as I do not quite understand what you mean; bit of a noob you see.

    I really appreciate the in-depth advice given by you all, its a great help and is also very interesting to learn more about how to deal with these things.

    S.
     
  6. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    Another solution is to beg the AV company on your knees to write a decent un-installer for their software.
    An un-installer that
    - closes the AV automatically, so that the user won't forget it.
    - deletes any object of the AV (registries, files, ...) from your harddisk
    - deletes the main folder and all sub-folders of the AV from your harddisk
    - deletes all items in the program menu and icons on your desktop related to the AV
    - reboots your computer
    As if the AV scanner was never there on your computer.

    The un-installers of AV scanners just don't get enough attention of the programmers.
    It's always their lowest priority, because it removes the AV scanner.
    No wonder that many security softwares have a bad un-installer and that users got used to this and consider it even as a necessary evil, because they don't know any better.
    What has been installed, can also be un-installed, if the un-installer is well programmed, even when the AV has been corrupted by some malware, which is often a cheap excuse of AV companies.

    Any corruption can be avoided, when AV companies would do an integrity check of their own software on a regular base, that verifies all valid AV objects and removes any object, that doesn't belong in the AV folders.
    I wonder how many AV companies do that.

    AV companies just don't care enough about their un-installers and we users have to suffer again and clean their mess.
    If less-knowledgeable users have to this, you can imagine how many mistakes they can make and delete the wrong stuff.
    Is that called security and you even have to pay for this ?
     
  7. SimonCC

    SimonCC Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    London
    Amen! Very well said indeed Erik! I hope some AV vendors take note.

    S.
     
  8. Don Pelotas

    Don Pelotas Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Posts:
    2,257
    It may seem excessive, but won't more than 10-15 minutes and you're not the first to say"I searched the registry and found no NAV remnants whatsoever" To turn around when trying this and say something like "Wow, i could not believe how much it found", believe me they are there, otherwise they wouldn't be making a removal-tool available, i speak from experience and Kaspersky puts it's hook in deap, but it's your choice of course. :)
     
  9. SimonCC

    SimonCC Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    London
    ok, I will give it a go. Do I have to uninstall windows script before installing the new one?
     
  10. Don Pelotas

    Don Pelotas Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Posts:
    2,257
    No, you're just updating it. :)
     
  11. SimonCC

    SimonCC Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    London
    ok, and im still running KAV trial, so when I reinstall, will it just resume the trial right?
     
  12. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    If they would create decent un-installers, you wouldn't even need these extra removal-tools.
    If these removal-tools are able to clean the mess, why are AV un-installers not able to do the same thing ?
    Combine both in ONE un-installer and you won't need these extra removal-tools anymore.
    These extra removal-tools just confirm how bad AV un-installers are and of course you need them to clean the mess, but that doesn't mean they are the right solution and certainly not professional.
    I call that bungling when you fix errors with an additional tool and don't fix these errors in the original un-installer.
    You just don't do that and certainly not in computers.
    Programmers make mistakes, because they are human too.
    At work we never blame our programmers for making mistakes as long they correct them.
    If the un-installer isn't working properly, just FIX the problem.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2005
  13. Don Pelotas

    Don Pelotas Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Posts:
    2,257
    It's not that i don't agree with you, ErikAlbert, but if you used TotalUninstall, you would quickly realize that no program uninstalls completely, FW's & AV's are some of the large programs which also goes deep into the system, i guess this is one of the reasons they sometimes create trouble when you ínstall other brands of FW's & AV's. It would be good if the uninstallers in programs would uninstall everything, i just don't see it happening anytime soon and therefore prefer to use an uninstallerprogram, in my case TotalUninstall, it is also very handy when betatesting.
     
  14. SimonCC

    SimonCC Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    London
    anyone know the answer to my above question...regarding KAV and the trial key? :doubt:

    S.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2005
  15. Paranoid2000

    Paranoid2000 Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2004
    Posts:
    2,839
    Location:
    North West, United Kingdom
    Agreed. The problem seems to be that most software uses third party installers (WISE, InstallShield, etc) which track what changes the installation makes but do not account for changes the program itself makes when it is run.

    Of course, some vendors do deliberately leave remnants behind to prevent people from getting multiple uses of their trial versions. However, in the case of anti-virus software (and any other product needing regular online updates) data on usage (trial keys, etc) can be held on the update server and used to block such behaviour.
     
  16. RejZoR

    RejZoR Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Posts:
    6,426
    Never had any problems with uninstallation of: AVG,avast!,AntiVir,NOD32,Kaspersky,F-Prot,McAfee (VirusScan Enterprise),BitDefender,Norman,DrWeb and ArcaVir.

    Had many problems with Symantec (especially their NAV2004,they seem to completely muck up installer for this version) and once with Panda Titanum 7 (that promo version).
     
  17. Don Pelotas

    Don Pelotas Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Posts:
    2,257
    Yes, it will. :)
     
  18. SimonCC

    SimonCC Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    London
    Ok, all done. It all went smoothly. Thank you so much don pelotas for that. Its good to now that KAV is now operating without any hindrances.

    Lastly, I notice that KAV has installed, after update, 5.0.383. Has it not installed 5.0.388 because it is a trial? Or would I have to install that newer version manually?

    thanks again
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2005
  19. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Posts:
    9,455
    I agree with that too, but an AV company could have programmed its own installer, if necessary and certainly the un-installer.
    They just choosed the cheapest solution and created a number of other problems for the users, which are of course not their problems.
    That's why users need tools like TotalUninstall to clean the mess.

    This would be the only and right solution and certainly for the AV company.

    When an user would re-format his hard disk every 30 days, he would be able to install the trial versions again.
    So keeping these remnants behind to prevent multiple uses of trial versions, isn't the right solution.

    There is also another problem, that could be solved this way.
    Most trial versions can be cracked and you don't need to be an expert to crack trial versions, because you can get these cracks all over the internet along with stolen serial numbers.
    The AV update server with the right data could verify this and not provide any updatings anymore and even disable the AV, because the user is using an illegal copy and that would be end of cracked softwares.

    It's all about not using the right solutions and the less-knowledgeable user is always the victim.
     
  20. Don Pelotas

    Don Pelotas Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Posts:
    2,257
    You're welcome, Simon.

    Yes the trial has not been updated to the latest version and yes, you normally have to download the latest version and uninstall old version, reboot and install new version.

    However if you go to programupdates as kaspersky.com, you will notice there is two installers one with & one without databases, the one without is for installing ontop, normally this trouble free, but i always recommend uninstalling/reinstalling. :)

    If you wish to try 5.0.388 then use this trial-key:http://forum.kaspersky.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1330 , if you then download the full version from here:http://www.kaspersky.com/productupdates and do the uninstall/reinstall routine again. If you place the key and the installer in same folder (like documents) it will usually find and add the key auto.
     
  21. SimonCC

    SimonCC Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2005
    Posts:
    72
    Location:
    London
    thanks don pelotas, again its much appreciated. I think I will just stick it out with the version I have until I buy my license in a few weeks time. I have done enough installing/uninstalling for one day!

    S.
     
  22. Don Pelotas

    Don Pelotas Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2004
    Posts:
    2,257
    :D Yes, i figure that much, but wanted you to know anyway, just use it with the default recommended settings and you're good (exept the updater, if you have a fast connection). :)
     
  23. Spyros

    Spyros Registered Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Posts:
    74
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.