Uninstall debacle?

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by OzRon, Mar 10, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. OzRon

    OzRon Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Posts:
    40
    Location:
    The land of Oz
    First post from a seasoned IT veteran who just recently discovered True Image. I started with great enthusiasm, thinking that I may have found a better alternative for my business and its clients than the PowerQuest product that was taken over by that bloatware company.

    But the enthusiasm is quickly turning into frustration. I guess the purpose of this post is to find out whether I've missed something, or if the disappointment is justified.

    The story so far...

    Purchased TI9 retail CD and did a "no frills" installation (no Secure Zone). That was build 2302. Created one uneventful backup before realising that a later build was available, so I downloaded it (2337). Checked the website FAQs where I read that there is no need to uninstall a previous version when installing an update. So I didn't.

    Installed the update, only to then find that the product continued to claim that it was still the earlier build. Submitted an online support case on February 4th, asking about this. Received an acknowledgment email six minutes later, but waited a further month before getting a reply (after I sent a follow-up email).

    The reply suggested that I uninstall the program, then re-install the later build. At this point I discovered this forum, where one of the "sticky" posts states that the best way to apply an update is to "completely uninstall True Image", reboot, and do "a clean installation" of the latest build. Somewhat inconsistent information, ne c'est pas?

    Never mind, thought I, I'll do what I'm (now) being told. Finding no uninstall option in the Start menu, I uninstalled (or so I thought) using Control Panel's Add/Remove function. Only to then find that this is anything but a "complete uninstall" - the only obvious components that went south were the serial number, and the entry in Add/Remove Programs. TI program files, a zillion registry entries, and even the Start Menu entries were all still there.

    Believing that that doesn't constitute a "complete uninstall" in anyone's language, nor that in that state I would be performing a "clean" install of the later build, I started despairing about having discarded the PowerQuest program and cringing at the prospect of another month-long wait if I tried Acronis support. And how would I convince them that my pristine XP Pro PC has nothing wrong with it, and that I hadn't botched up the uninstall, or either of the prior installs?

    Aah, I wonder if anyone else has had the problem? Back to this forum, where a search on "uninstall" in post titles brought up some 25 threads, many dealing with similar problems (both unrecognized new builds, and incomplete uninstalls). OK, at least I'm not alone.

    But while I can't claim to have meticulously studied every thread, the hour or so spent looking didn't reveal any real solutions. Aside from the odd patronizing answer, and more than one "Why do you have to uninstall?" response (we have to justify ourselves now?), I did find a couple of references to the "official" post that documents how to perform a manual uninstall - a long list of registry hacks and file removals that several subscribers claim still leaves a lot of stuff behind.

    Sorry folks, but that's what I expect from unsolicited malicious spyware, not from a reputable commercial program - much less a "version 9"! The only similar uninstall procedures I've encountered with other reputable software have been to cater for system crashes or corruptions - and not intended as the only way that any user can "completely uninstall" in order to do a "clean installation" of an update (or simply remove an unwanted program). I don't see any excuse for this having to be a substitute for a proper, automated uninstall process - and worse if it's incomplete anyway.

    I'm still hoping that someone here will (validly) shoot me down in flames, and/or tell me that I am missing something, and that my frustration and disappointment are not justified.

    Until then that new build ain't getting installed - and neither is the untried Disk Director suite that we purchased at the same time, also intended to replace its PowerQuest counterpart, and purchased sight-unseen based on what we perceived to be good reputation.

    Anyone prepared to help restore the faith? Or alternatively to support my observations and opinions?

    RB
     
  2. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2005
    Posts:
    2,318
    Uninstall via "Add remove programs" is quite sufficient to enable a proper installation of the latest 2337 build. To poke around further with registry hacks etc. is a waste of time and is totally unecessary.

    Xpilot
     
  3. OzRon

    OzRon Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Posts:
    40
    Location:
    The land of Oz
    Thank you Xpilot.

    I appreciate your reassurance about the requirements for that update.

    It doesn't address a number of other issues in my post that I'm still hoping will receive some other comments or responses. (Conflicting information, slow support, and most importantly the apparent inability to properly uninstall the program - for whatever purpose.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2006
  4. Chutsman

    Chutsman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2005
    Posts:
    1,181
    Location:
    Brandon, Florida, USA
    In addition to what XPilot said, it wouldn't take long to search through the Registry manually to remove any references to Acronis or True Image. Or if it is XP you are using, perhaps a restore to a date before that first install would suffice.

    In any case Ver 9, build 2302 works for me. I'm not upgrading - to a different set of problems.
     
  5. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2005
    Posts:
    2,318
    As a not very seasoned veteran as far as computing is concerned I have never come across a single application that can be COMPLETELY uninstalled using Add/Remove or the Apps own uninstaller.
    Try removing any of these :-
    Norton system works.
    Windows Defender Beta 2
    Windows anti-spyware Beta 1.
    Photo Shop.
    Zone Alarm.
    And on and on !

    Anyway sleep well. Enjoy running True Image as much as I do.

    Xpilot.
     
  6. Chutsman

    Chutsman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2005
    Posts:
    1,181
    Location:
    Brandon, Florida, USA
    At the top of that list should be AOL. :rolleyes:
     
  7. OzRon

    OzRon Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Posts:
    40
    Location:
    The land of Oz
    People, I'm grateful for your comments and intentions.

    But forgive me if I remain unconvinced. I'm coming to realise that this may not the best place to raise this type of issue. I expect that many people participating in these forums are enthusiasts, home users, users that don't mind a challenge, and/or people that may take some pride in knowing the "standard workarounds" for common problems. The trouble is that the typical users I am concerned with - people that I make recommendations to and subsequently have to support (both the user and the recommendations) - have a different profile. They are mostly business users who just want to get on with their jobs, and don't know about or care for "tinkering".

    That said, some comments on the well-intended replies received so far...

    Chutsman, I know that a qualified user can go through the registry and remove all relevant entries. My point was: I shouldn't have to.

    As for using XP's System Restore, this assumes that I'm happy to lose any other non-Acronis changes made to the system since the install. And again, I shouldn't have to.

    Xpilot, I agree and disagree. You are right, of course. But in my last reply to you I did not complain of the inability to COMPLETELY uninstall the program - I said "the inability to properly uninstall" it. To me that's a significant difference.

    I haven't used all the programs on your list. But I have uninstalled System Works and Photo Shop many times. The former in particular is annoying, and many of us have come to learn that when you try to uninstall certain Norton products, some secondary components (and other debris) get left behind. For example, if I install Norton AntiVirus, why should I have to uninstall NAV + LiveReg + LiveUpdate? (Symantec has a slightly-valid answer: the other components are used by other Symantec programs. But in some later versions they now check to see if other apps are there, and if not, they do remove the secondary components.) But hey, didn't I start off by saying that I got here by thinking that I had found a better alternative to Symantec?

    I could post a list far longer than yours of programs that don't COMPLETELY uninstall. But NONE on my list (including System Works and Photo Shop) leave their executables in "Program Files", their shortcuts in the Start Menu, and a program that continues to launch (but complains of a lost serial number). And that's only what's visible to my average user - never mind how the registry has been left.

    I didn't have expectations that the Acronis product would be better in this regard than others - but neither did I expect it to be this noticeably worse. As I said in my first post, it's what I have come to expect from malicious spyware, not from reputable commercial software.

    I trust that I'm not going to attract defensive replies - I wouldn't be bothered writing this if I didn't think the product had merit. I have the capability to properly remove a program that won't do it itself. But my clients and users do not. In my humble, a good product is being spoilt by what appears to be a very sloppy uninstall facility. It should not be hard for a software company to provide an automated uninstall that doesn't leave the user thinking it has failed.

    Doesn't ANYONE agree?
     
  8. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Posts:
    25,885
    Hello OzRon,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    Please accept our apologies for the current inconvenience.

    Please follow the instructions provided in this previous post of mine. It describes the alternative way to uninstall the software.

    As far as I understand, you have already sent a request to our Support Team, please correct me if I am not right. Could you please let me know your Acronis request # (e.g. [Acronis #123456]) which was sent to you in autoreply to your letter? I will find out how the investigation of your issue is going.

    Thank you.
    --
    Kirill Omelchenko
     
  9. OzRon

    OzRon Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Posts:
    40
    Location:
    The land of Oz
    Thank you, Kirill, but it seems that you may have misunderstood or misread the issues.

    There is no outstanding/pending request to your Support Team. I did say that I had raised one, but I also said that I received a reply. The point I made was that it took a month to receive that reply. ( #482308 )

    The main issue in this thread has been the absence of a proper uninstall procedure. Neither you nor anyone else so far has said that what I observed when trying to uninstall TI9 is not the way it always works. If it is not, and the suspicion is that something went wrong in my case, then your reply seems appropriate. But if what I described is "standard", then your suggestion that one needs to run Microsoft's Installer Cleanup Utility only reinforces the point I have been making.

    Your suggestion also raises two further questions...

    (1) Are you implying that Xpilot's first response was incorrect, and that an Installer "cleanup" is required?

    (2) Both Microsoft's KB Article 290301 and the Cleanup Utility itself warn the user that if the utility is used, the user may need to reinstall some or all of the other applications that were installed using Windows Installer. That is a pretty heavy warning. Do you know for certain that this cannot be the case if the utility is used to cleanup an Acronis installation?

    Ron B (OzRon)
     
  10. herojig

    herojig Registered Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2004
    Posts:
    127
    Location:
    Kathmandu Nepal
    it's actually worse than this, try an upgrade from V8 to V9, keep V8 on the machine, install V9 to a new directory, uninstall V9 (via control panel) cause you see no benifit in the upgrade, and then find out you have NO ATI at all. It's a cruel joke,
    jigs
    :blink:
    but to be nice, ATI is the best there is...but I am sticking with 8 until I see things like:
    * direct backup to DVD (no way am I going to use UDF software like INCD, another cruel joke.
    * integrated file/folder/image backup
    * reduced image file sizes with incrementals, try using ATI and Diskeeper together!
     
  11. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Posts:
    25,885
    Hello OzRon,

    Please accept our apologies for the delay with the response.

    The point is that we have experienced some problems with our mail server when we received your first letter. These problems resulted in your letter being lost and therefore remain unnoticed. That is the reason why your request was answered only after we have received a follow-up e-mail from you which attracted our attention to the "lost" letter sent from the same e-mail address. We are really sorry for your inconvenience. Usually, response time is no longer than 36 hours.

    Please be aware that the older builds of Acronis True Image 9.0 have some minor problems with their installer. However, these problems have already been investigated and fixed starting from build 2323. In other words, if you already have build 2323 or higher installed then each new build (e.g. 2337) can be properly installed over the older one without the need to uninstall previously installed build. Please accept our appologies for this inconvenience.

    Actuallly, Kirill is not completely correct. Windows Installer Cleanup Utility is not an alternative methods of uninstallation. In fact it does not uninstall the program, but remove all entries related to this software from Windows regsitry. It will not delete any files or folders. Anyway, this utility is a very handy tool for troubleshooting several sorts of installation issues.

    In this particular case using Windows Installer Cleanup Utility is not required. As Xpilot has already mentioned above, "uninstall via "Add remove programs" is quite sufficient to enable a proper installation of the latest 2337 build".

    Yes, we aware of this warning. However, our Testing Team has tested Windows Installer Cleanup Utility thoroughly and never encountered any problems with another software after using this utility to cleanup Acronis related Windows registry entries. We also have not received any complains regarding this utility from our customers.

    You can find more information on how to use Acronis True Image 9.0 in the respective User's Guide.

    If you have any further questions concerning Acronis software, please feel free to submit a request for technical support or post any of them on this forum. We will certainly try to help you in resolving any issues.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexey Popov
     
  12. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Posts:
    25,885
    Hello herojig,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    Please accept our apologies for the delay with the response.

    Please be aware that both versions use some common modules, folders, registry entries, system files and so can not coexist on one computer. In other words, Acronis True Image 9.0 can only be installed over Acronis True Image 8.0 (replacing the older version installation).

    If you want us to change the behaviour of Acronis True Image in any way or add some new features to this product, please feel free to post any of your suggestions in Acronis True Image WISH-LIST thread.

    If you have any further questions concerning Acronis software, please feel free to submit a request for technical support or post any of them on this forum. We will certainly try to help you in resolving any issues.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexey Popov
     
  13. Chutsman

    Chutsman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2005
    Posts:
    1,181
    Location:
    Brandon, Florida, USA
    Oh, absolutely, I agree ... but what are ya gonna do in the meantime. :rolleyes: The frequent posters here are all unwitting and unpaid beta testers. :D
     
  14. OzRon

    OzRon Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Posts:
    40
    Location:
    The land of Oz
    Thank you, Alexey. I would have responded sooner, but I have had no "Post Reply" email notifications since March 12th, though my default mode is set to "Instant email notification". (Forum problem?)

    Also my thanks to Chutsman - nice to have at least one person support the points I made.

    Alexey, I would like to try to clarify where this leaves us...

    We seem to be saying that my initial problem (where the build number was not updated when I installed build 2337 over the original 2302) should be solved by using "Add/Remove Programs", ignoring what is left behind, and installing build 2337.

    You also say that installer problems were "fixed starting from build 2323". Does this affect the main complaint I have made in this thread, that uninstalling TI9 seems to only remove the "Add/Remove Programs" entry and the Serial Number, while appearing to leave most everything else behind?

    If this has been fixed, it seems strange that this was not apparent when I "uninstalled" after applying build 2337.

    Or if it has not been fixed, does Acronis Support at least acknowledge that this is a problem? And if so, are there any plans to fix it?

    Thanks again,
    Ron B
     
  15. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Posts:
    25,885
    Hello OzRon,

    Yes, this problem has been fixed as well. To be completely sure I've just uninstalled the latest build 2337 of Acronis True Image 9.0 from my workstation (Windows XP Professional) by following Start -> Settings -> Control Panel -> Add or Remove Programs -> Acronis True Image, rebooted the computer and found no items related to Acronis True Image neither in Start -> Programs -> Acronis (I still have another Acronis products installed) nor in Program Files (even Acronis True Image folder was deleted). There are still some entries in Windows registry. However, we have already discussed this fact in the previous thread named Acronis True Image 9.0 Trial Version Uninstall.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexey Popov
     
  16. OzRon

    OzRon Registered Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Posts:
    40
    Location:
    The land of Oz
    Thank you Alexey.

    I am surprised, however, that until now no-one has said... "Hey, that's an old problem that has now been fixed".

    Also...

    I guess I should assume then that whatever caused the build number to not change (when updating build 2302 to 2337, and receiving no error messages) also caused the installer fixes to not be installed?

    I appreciated the remaining information, and I look forward to my next attempts at uninstalling and/or updating being trouble-free.

    Ron B
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2006
  17. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Posts:
    25,885
    Hello OzRon,

    Yes, this is correct.

    If you encounter any problems while using Acronis True Image 9.0 please feel free to report them to us either by submitting a request for technical support or posting a new thread for each separate issue on this forum. By doing this you will ensure that these particular problems are known by Acronis and we'll do our best to analyze and fix it as soon as possible.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexey Popov
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.