Unable to Boot after System Restore

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Lewis68, Jul 2, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2004
    Posts:
    4,661
    Location:
    Menorca (Balearic Islands) Spain
    Hi again Lewis68,

    Nice work. Glad you managed to suss it out.

    This previous thread titled <Reflections on Build 3567 and MBR> could possibly fill in a few gaps for you, particularly the additional Acronis Support clarification provided therein.

    Regards
     
  2. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Posts:
    954
    Just one small comment Lewis68,

    If you need to restore the system (OS & Programs) partiton on a working drive, say after a software trial session, you don't have to restore the MBR as well. Restoring the C: partition will do. I do it all the times.

    Regarding a new drive you are correct.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2006
  3. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2004
    Posts:
    2,295
    Location:
    Cromwell Country

    Sorry - I have never had to restore the MBR. I make system and data images
    separtely and frequently restore the system image ( eg when testing new software - make a system image - install the new program - test and then restore the old image)
     
  4. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2005
    Posts:
    2,318
    Well I use a different philosophy entirely.
    I use TI to protect my main disk from corruption or mechanical failure. It contains systems and data. So I backup the whole disk each time and this automatically includes the MBR. Restores are made of the whole disk whether to the original or to a replacement. In fact, as I swap disks, they are always done to a replacement, which is the most risk free method possible.
    Working this way nothing can get out of sync. It needs no thought or involvement once set up.
    I like to think of a restore as refreshing the hard drive as that is what happens.

    Xpilot
     
  5. Tabvla

    Tabvla Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Posts:
    649
    Location:
    London, England
    Agree in principle with Xpilot's method.

    Images can (and do) fail even if they verify OK. Contrary to views sometimes expressed in this Forum, an image failure is not necessarily a shortcoming with TI. The verification process and restore process are obviously different and image restoration failure can result from a variety of causes, none of which are directly attributable to TI.

    If you use TI to restore an image then the moment that you click on "PROCEED", the existing data on the destination partition (or disk) is deleted. If the restoration of the image fails then the data on the destination partition (or disk) is irrecoverable. If the destination partition (or disk) is your primary system or data then you will have lost this information.

    When restoring data you should always do a test-restore of the image to a separate partition which has been set aside for this purpose. The restored image can then be checked for integrity before you restore it to your primary data partition (or disk). If the restore fails you will still have your primary data intact. Common sense dictates that the test-restore should be done immediately after the image creation to ensure that the image is good.

    Restoring a system partition (or disk) requires a different approach because in a Windows environment you cannot have 2 "live" versions of Windows on the same system that share the same license. (You can have 2 separately licensed versions in 2 separate partitions - but this is not cost-effective). One solution to ensuring a fail-safe backup strategy is to have 2 separate system disks, only one of which is installed in the PC at any given time. The image of SysDisk_#1 is restored to SysDisk_#2. SysDisk_#2 now becomes the current system disk and SysDisk_#1 is put away as your backup system disk. The process is repeated every time an image is made of the system disk.

    Using removeable disk rack caddies eliminates the need to open the PC to access the disks. These are cost-effective, convenient, safe and very quick and easy to implement, which makes them ideal for the work environment or for those who are not technically confident.
     
  6. Christopher_NC

    Christopher_NC Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Posts:
    293
    Location:
    North Carolina USA

    I'm glad to have found this thread, as my attempts to restore and test an image to a 2nd HD yesterday were quite eventful...seems that even with OS Selector, my skill level is too low at present to create a bootable 2nd copy of XP Pro SP2, using TI 9.3677 to restore the image of my system partitions to the second drive.

    Seems I went wrong by not using an empty 2nd drive, and only restoring the system, programs and data partitions to that 2nd drive (which precludes the MBR). I have not been imaging my entire 1st drive, since it has other partitions, such as one full of TI archives of its own partitions. And, the second drive I tried this test on also has data and photos, on several partitions, so I didn't want to wipe it clean.

    Is there a way, short of imaging the entire system drive (all partitions), to copy the boot information, Restore it to a second drive, and test this to see if it boots/loads Windows? Along the way, I have managed to mess up my boot info, so that I now need to use the Acronis Loader on my boot disc to even boot to Windows.

    Seems like, from what I've read, that I need to repair my MBR, by disconnecting all HDs but the system drive, and repairing that, using either the Acronis fix mbr on floppy, or XP's recovery console. Then, reinstall OS Selector (which I uninstalled, thinking that might help). I tried to fix the mbr yesterday but managed to lose all the partitions on my 2nd drive, and was only able to recover 2 of 4. The important ones, but, this is a sobering process.

    I'm starting to think that one needs to be fairly saavy to use these programs. And I'm trying to get there, though, this is challenging. :doubt:

    I would like it if Acronis offered an option, in each program, to show the actual changes about to be made, as to the boot.ini or MBR, before committing to an Operation. And, a way to back out -- my approach last night was to restore my C:System partition, and MBR, to get Windows straightened out.
     
  7. Christopher_NC

    Christopher_NC Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Posts:
    293
    Location:
    North Carolina USA
    Searching these forums for ways to make a 2nd working copy of XP to use after a HD failure, I found this reply from Acronis Support, in the Disk Director support forum:

    Re: CREATE DUAL BOOT - BOTH XP

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=764299&postcount=3

    Can this really be this complicated?!? o_O If so, I'd best skip this until I become much more adept technically. :blink:

    I thought when buying the Acronis suite of programs (TI 9 / DD 10 / & OS Selector) that multibooting would be easy. If I have to reconfigure XP and re-write the boot.ini files, that doesn't sound easy.

    After all, tis said:

    In an effort to revive my once bootable HD, I am about to follow the oft suggested steps:

    I plan to do this with only one Win XP internal HD connected...with luck, I'll let you know how it goes...
     
  8. Christopher_NC

    Christopher_NC Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Posts:
    293
    Location:
    North Carolina USA
    BOOTCFG /rebuild seemed to get me back on track. Or FIXMBR.

    I'm booting swell again. :thumb: Seems that DD has some bugs, too.

    Still aiming for system stability. Who knows, one day I may be able to write to an external HD from TI running in Windows! Well, I best not get greedy.
     
  9. Tabvla

    Tabvla Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Posts:
    649
    Location:
    London, England
    Reply to Christopher_NC
    -----------------------

    Christopher,

    If I understand you correctly what you want to do is to have 2 instances of Windows XP on your PC. This is possible and is easily achieved via Acronis True Image.

    However, it is very important that you understand that the License that you have for Windows allows you to have ONLY ONE instance of Windows installed on the same machine at the same time. This is not just a legal requirement (see note below), Microsoft has wired Windows up in such a way that Windows may become unstable if there are 2 instances of the OS "visible" simultaneously. By having 2 instances of Windows on the same machine at the same time you run a considerable risk of instigating so much instability in your system that it may become unusable.

    In practice the way around this issue is to have 2 system disks each a mirror image of the other - size, geometry, partitions, contents..... etc. Only ONE of these disks should be installed in the same machine at the same time. (Obviously the disks can be physically installed simultaneously but the data cable is connected to only one of them at any given moment).

    ---------------

    Note

    Not releveant to Christopher_NC's problem, but it is interesting to note that this issue of one user on one machine requiring a separate license for every instance of Windows that is installed on that machine has been a point of discussion for some considerable time. Assume a user installs software to create Virtual Environments for example for creating a test environment, the user has to have a separate license for each virtual instance of Windows that is installed on the same machine. These are not even "real" installations but they exist only in the "virtual" world!! Representations have been made to Microsoft to change this requirement and there are indications that at least some elements within Microsoft are sympathetic to this request but to date there does not seem to be any intention to incorporate this change in Vista.
     
  10. Christopher_NC

    Christopher_NC Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Posts:
    293
    Location:
    North Carolina USA
    Tabvla,

    Thanks for clearly spelling out both the how-to's and the underlying reasons in your excellent reply. Acronis would do well to hire you to suggest paths to dual booting XP, and likely many other user quandries. I appreciate your explanation of the underlying priciples as well...which I find helps me decide when a particular suggestion will produce the results I am after.

    I've been hesitant to invest in hard drives just for redundancy; though it does sound like one of the safest ways to ensure that one will be able to boot up and continue running programs after a virus or system failure. If unplugged, the backup hard-drive should be safe from harm.

    On a lighter note, this reminds me of what I've often wished for...since I don't enjoy being around the dust and bother of any home repairs or improvements, I think it would be grand to have a duplicate house next door, set up identically. Then whenever things needed attention, we could just move next door.

    As long as I'm dreaming, how about two identical computers, regularly mirrored. Then, if anything goes wrong, just slide my chair over, power up the spare PC, and carry on. I suppose Microsoft prohibits just such a configuration...I'd have to pay for two full liscenses of XP, and Acronis TI & DD, for that matter. Well, since funds wouldn't be the issue...;)

    Back from fantasy land, I do appreciate your advice, and will likely put it to use. A spare hard drive is relatively inexpensive, and sure beats messing with driver and chipset conflicts eternally. Though, there is still the issue of backing up my photographs...and only so many hard drives in the budget.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Wouldn't it make sense for OS Selector to understand the XP liscensing issues, and hide partitions as needed to allow dual booting? Perhaps it does, and this much less than expert user just hasn't figured out how to use it yet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2006
  11. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Posts:
    4,751
    I disagree with the need to always restore the MBR when restoring a System (Windows) partition. If you are restoring your C partition to the same drive it came from, there is no need to restore the MBR.
     
  12. Tabvla

    Tabvla Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Posts:
    649
    Location:
    London, England
    Seekforever wrote....
    Seekforever is correct. The following tip may be useful to some as a general guideline :

    1. Always include the MBR if you are making an image of the entire disk (all partitions, all content)

    2. Always restore the MBR if you restore the entire disk (all partitions, all content)

    3. Don't restore the MBR if you are only restoring a single partition. If the partition that you are restoring is the system partition and the disk won't boot after you have restored the system partition then go back and restore the MBR providing that you are 100% CERTAIN that the MBR that you are restoring contains the correct information for the geometry of the disk to which it is being restored. If you are not certain it is preferable to run the Windows utility "fixmbr" from the Recovery Console.

    I accept that the above is not applicable to all situations or all installations, but as a general "rule-of-thumb" it may be helpful.
     
  13. Tabvla

    Tabvla Registered Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2006
    Posts:
    649
    Location:
    London, England
    Now that must surely rank as the #1 idea that we have had on this Forum in years... I love it :cool:

    As a final comment...... your photographs are irreplaceable. Disk drives are cheap as chips. Disk or photographs? No contest, photographs win every time. :D
     
  14. Lewis68

    Lewis68 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    Posts:
    16
    Actually, I agree it MAY not be neccessary to restore the MBR if you are restoring the System to a drive from which it came. Hence I should have said, "The only case where you would not want (or need) to restore the MBR, is if you already have (or had) a working System drive."

    However, my point was that the MBR that TI stores does NOT contain the Partition Table. Therefore it will not HURT to restore the MBR along with the System Image. Although, it COULD hurt if you are not restoring the System drive, but some other (Data, Media).

    Also, I keep seeing this point posted for which I do not agree.

    It does NOT matter if you restore the MBR with the System image to a disk drive containing a different geometry, because TI does not store the Partition Table. I am not saying Windows will not get confused if the drives are not the same, however. But if you restore the System and all Apps to the correct Drvies, it won't matter what other partitions you have or don't have. I've made multiple restores to different size and number partitions with no problems.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.