Two OS runs not perfectly

Discussion in 'Acronis Disk Director Suite' started by Wrasse, Jun 23, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Wrasse

    Wrasse Guest

    Hi,
    somebody pls. help me ! I have a notebook and like install two OS on two primary Partition (Two XP Pro). I have partitioned with Acronis Disk Manager Two 10 GB Primary Partition the first is Primary and active the second is Primary and hidden. Long time ago I used the Power Quest boot manager and this do it so that when the first OS run the second was hidden (cant see from the windows), and when the second OS run the first was hidden. This run great because the two OS cannot see the another, but i have SATA Raid HD and the PQ boot magic dont working with disks. I have tryed the Acronis boot manager (look wonderfull) but didnt working so as i need :(. I can hidding the second primary partition for the first OS but cannot hidding the first partition for the second OS (the hidding checkbox unavilable by the first primary OS), and when i booting the second OS i can see The first primary partition with the first Windows this is dangerous because i can delete files or by installing software make miscallenous problems. It is possible hidding for the actually running OS the another Primary partition (i plane for the future more OS to install for more primary disks)?
    Thank you the answer and sorry about my wrong English !
     
  2. Wrasse

    Wrasse Guest

    Hi, i am again.
    I tryd the software System Commander 8.1 this working perfectly, but the acronis look is mutch nice as the SC. I woud like use the acronis when its possible !
    Thanx !
     
  3. mjliteman

    mjliteman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Posts:
    11
    I have the same situation and am trying out the software, but I have a couple of questions I haven't been able to solve either through the documentation nor these forums to my satisfaction.

    I set up a dual-boot of completely separate XP Pros without any boot manager for testing purposes. What I've done for booting is use Partition Magic to activate one or the other then reboot and both OSes boot perfectly. I install DDS9 along with OSS from the current active OS (XP-1), the other OS is, of course, hidden. When I reboot, OSS sees 2 installations of XP (I'll call them XP-1 and XP-2). This would be correct. I select the properties of XP-1, click Partitions and it shows me all the partitions on that disk. I click on the partition for XP-1 and the Active box is checked and the Hidden box is not checked, but both are greyed out and I can't change them. I click on the partition for XP-2 and the Active button is unchecked and the Hidden button is checked and neither are greyed out. All this would seem correct.

    The problem is on the other OS (XP-2 which was originally hidden when I installed OSS). I click on Properties for this, then select Partitions. I click on the partition for XP-2 and both Active and Hidden boxes are checked and greyed out. This wouldn't seem correct and in fact if I try to boot to this OS I get a Stop error, or the system hangs. It seems that when I installed OSS from XP-1 it reads the XP-2 partition status as hidden since it was hidden from XP-1. I cannot boot into this OS using OSS. I must deactivate it first, then use Partition Magic to activate the other OS and reboot.

    My questions are these:

    1. How can I edit the properties of XP-2 so that only Active is checked and not Hidden as well? When a partiton is set to Active it should not be able to be set to hidden too (and should automatically select Hidden for the other OS partition IMO). Do I need to install OSS from the boot CD so it's outside of Windows? Or do I have to first unhide all partitions when installing OSS? I don't want to unhide the other OS partition before installation because Windows will assign it a drive letter which I do not want it to do.

    2. In what way does OSS automatically detect OSes? If it messes up I see no way of manually adding an OS to the boot menu. What if I accidentally delete an OS from the boot menu, how do I get it back? Do I go through the Boot from Floppy option even though a second Windows is already installed? The documentation just isn't clear about this aspect. From the forum, it appears that an older version of OSS had this capability, but newer versions do not.

    I've read a lot of posts regarding this subject and many promising posts dead end either without any response at all or with "create a support file". This doesn't help those of us trying to find answers on our own when others have had the same problem but the solution isn't posted. If it appears I've hijacked this post, in reality I'm experiencing the same problem started in this post, but thought I could expand it. If anyone has any ideas or those who've had your similar problem solved, please respond. And of course any Acronis support members too. I'm sure there are many of us who already have dual-boot setups who would like to swap out our current boot manager for the Acronis product because I, for one, love the interface (as others have posted as well), but then again looks aren't everything - it does have to work correctly. Sorry for the novel, but hopefully I gave as much information as possible. I'm testing DDS9 build 524 (I know it's not the latest, but I've not found any evidence that this particular issue is corrected with newer builds).

    Thanks,
    MJ
     
  4. Wrasse

    Wrasse Guest

    Thank you mjliteman, my problem is exactly this what you tell before and I hope that the support give for us an correct answer !
     
  5. mjliteman

    mjliteman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Posts:
    11
    After extensive testing I've learned some answers:

    Regarding my first question: when installing OSS all hidden OS partitions must be made visible or OSS will mark them hidden and you will not be able change it, nor will it boot from OSS. To me, this is a severe limitation. Any OS marked as Active should never also be marked as Hidden.

    For Wrasse and any who already have a dual-boot configuration and do not wish Windows to see the other OS partitions - do NOT install OSS from within Windows. This is the way I've found to install OSS without Windows assigning drive letters to the other OSes and fouling everything up:

    1. Install DDS - but do not install OSS - and create the bootable rescue media as part of the installation.

    1.1 If you've already installed DD9 along with OSS and created the rescue media, uninstall OSS then proceed to the next step.

    2. Reboot with the rescue media in the drive and start Disk Director. Find any OS partitions marked as hidden and make them all visible. Ignore the warning that drive letters may change (DD gives them letters but this is not permanent and Windows will not see them).

    3. Leave the rescue media in the drive and close DD (it will automatically reboot). Now install OSS from the rescue media. When it's finished, remove the rescue media from the drive and click OK. It will reboot and now OSS will load, displaying your operating systems and you will have the ability to hide/unhide OSes properly (through Properties/Partitions) with none marked as Active and Hidden.

    To Acronis:
    Would you please investigate this issue? When an OS partition is marked Active it should disable the option to mark it Hidden, nor should OSS retain that property if it's installed from within Windows. At the very least, you should clarify the documentation regarding this.

    My second question regarding manually adding an OS to OSS still remains however.
     
  6. Wrasse

    Wrasse Guest

    Acronis support sleeping, i dont understand why dont write this situation in the manual. I thing its a wery important part by an OS selector program !

    Lot of Thanx mjliteman !!! You are GODLY Great ! All what i want its now working perfectly nice !! One more time Thank you wery mutch.
     
  7. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Posts:
    25,885
    Hello Wrasse and mjliteman,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Multiboot Managing Software.

    If you install one copy of Windows and then install another one the loader of the second copy will be located at the same partition where the loader of the first one. It means that you cannot hide the first copy from the second one because in this case the second copy of Windows won't see its loader and won't be able to boot.

    However, you still can do what you want. First of all, you will need to copy system files (boot.ini, ntldr, ntdetect.com, bootfont.bin, ntbootdd.sys - some of them may be missing) to the partition where the second copy of Windows is installed. After that you will need to edit boot.ini on both partitions. On the first partition you will need to delete the string that looks like

    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

    and on the second partition please delete the string

    multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

    In Acronis OS Selector please change in the second copy of Windows properties active partition: set the partition where the second copy of Windows is installed as active.

    After that please reboot the computer, and when you get Acronis OS Selector menu please change each operating system properties hiding the partition with other operating system.

    To add the operating system you need to install it using Acronis OS Selector as it is described in the User's Guide (Chapter 8, point 8.2).

    Thank you.
    --
    Ilya Toytman
     
  8. mjliteman

    mjliteman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Posts:
    11
    Ilya, I appreciate you responding, but I'm afraid the response doesn't apply to this situation and I guess I did not communicate it correctly. All I wanted to do was try out OSS by swapping out my other boot loader for OSS. I'm already dual-booting using a third party utility with each OS installation completely separate. Therefore, no matter which installation of Windows I'm currently in, the other installation is totally hidden. So when installing OSS from within Windows, it sees the other OS partition, but sees that it's marked Hidden and retains that hidden flag in the OSS properties which I cannot change. This would be something that's easliy duplicated if you wish to test it.


    This statement is correct, but not for my setup. I did not use the Windows boot loader at all - both Windows installations were done independently of the other (meaning the first OS partition was hidden when installing the second) for the very reason that I did not want the boot loader for both OSes in the same place. I used a third party boot loader to select which OS to boot into. Since I am not using the Windows boot loader, the problem isn't that I am hiding the first partition containing the boot info of the second partition, but that OSS is retaining the hidden parameter of the other partition as well as marking it Active and not letting me change it if I install OSS from within Windows. Let me repeat: An active partition should never be allowed to also be marked hidden in OSS. It just doesn't make any sense! Unless I'm completely off-base about this. But I know from direct experience that the OS marked Active and Hidden in OSS WILL NOT BOOT. That not only is this is possible at all in OSS, but that it does it automatically when installing from within Windows on an existing dual-boot setup is counterintuitive. If an OS partition is marked Active in OSS, it should then disable the option to mark it Hidden (leaving it as unchecked). If nothing else, at least allow the Hidden check box to be changed always and don't grey it out. We're advanced computer users, let us have control over every option. And for those who may not be considered advanced users, spell out in the documentation the possible dangers of some of the options (such as marking an OS Active and Hidden).


    Yes, this is correct if I'm freshly installing another OS, but in this case I already had 2 OSes installed. Are you saying I should delete a perfectly good installation then reinstall just so OSS can be properly configured? It just seems that you haven't taken into account that there are those who already dual-boot and wish to use this product. It appears that, at least from just a documentation standpoint, you've only considered first-time dual-booters who will be installing another OS from scratch.

    I hope you don't take so much writing as harsh criticism, but that I love the Acronis products and only want to make them even better.

    Also, I'm stilling wondering about if an OS shortcut in OSS is deleted, how I can then get it back. Maybe OSS scans each time it starts and if it finds one not listed it will add it? Hmmm. I guess I'll go test it out myself (good thing I got a test machine, eh? :cool:)

    MJ
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2005
  9. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Posts:
    25,885
    Hello mjliteman,

    I am sorry for not niticing you were using another boot loader. The problem is that we cannot guarantee the correct performance with any third-party boot loaders. However, it is possible to set dual booting even after both (or any other number of) OSes are installed. When you install Acronis OS Selector it finds all the supported operating systems and creates the shortcut for each of them. To get back the deleted shortcut you need to disable Acronis OS Selector and then enable it once again using the appropriate option in "Tools" menu.

    Thank you.
    --
    Ilya Toytman
     
  10. mjliteman

    mjliteman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Posts:
    11
    Ilya, thanks for responding.

    I wasn't worried about the performance of some other boot loader, I was just illustrating that I already had a dual-boot setup that when I'm in one OS the other OS partition is hidden.

    This is the whole issue I'm talking about. Yes, OSS does recognize both operating systems I have installed, but since when I'm in one OS the other OS partition is hidden OSS remembers that hidden status and marks its properties/partitions as Active AND Hidden AND it's greyed out and unchangeable. Thus I cannot boot into it with OSS. Can you recreate what I'm talking about so you can see for yourself?

    Thanks for the above clarification.

    MJ
     
  11. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Posts:
    25,885
    Hello mjliteman,

    Am I right that you have two active partitions: one per each hard disk, each active partition having its own copy of Windows? Could you please try to unhide both partitions temporarily to chekc whether you are able to boot both your copies of Widows then? If so please try to hide the partitions using Acronis OS Selector menu at startup (not under Windows) and let me know the result.

    Thank you.
    --
    Ilya Toytman
     
  12. mjliteman

    mjliteman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Posts:
    11
    Ilya, thanks for responding. I've had a nice, long 4th of July holiday break from my computer! :cool:

    No, I have two primary partitions on the same physical disk each containing a copy of Windows. Only one of them is active at any given time. My understanding is that one PC system can only have one active partition at a time, right? So, one partition of Windows gets hidden when the other becomes active.

    As I've stated before in my second post, yes, if I uninstall OSS, then unhide all OS partitions, then install OSS again (all from the rescue media outside of Windows), then I am able to hide/unhide partitions as expected and boot into either OS, but NOT if I install OSS from within Windows while the other OS partition is hidden (which is what I want because I don't want either Windows OS to see the other OS partition).

    MJ
     
  13. JohannesH

    JohannesH Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2005
    Posts:
    5
    I have discovered exactly the same!
    It only works correct if you use Bootable Media and make all the partitions visible before installing / activating OSS9.

    This is one thing that must have changed from OSS8 to OSS9. With OSS8 at least you can make the necessary changes for the partition visibility which does not work any more in OSS9.

    Johannes
     
  14. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Posts:
    25,885
    Hello mjliteman,

    You can have active partition on each disk you have. If your system contains one hard disk you will have only one active partition.

    What happens if you install Acronis OS Selector while both operating systems are unhidden and then hide each of them using Acronis OS Selector "Hide" option?

    Thank you.
    --
    Ilya Toytman
     
  15. mjliteman

    mjliteman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Posts:
    11
    Thanks for replying.

    Then this will work correctly, i.e. I will be able to hide the other OS with the OSS hide option and it will not show up in Windows, but ONLY if I install/configure OSS from OUTSIDE of Windows with the rescue media. Otherwise, if I install from within Windows OSS marks the other hidden OS partition as hidden in its properties too - and it can't be changed - and thus is unbootable from OSS. If I wish to install from within Windows, I must unhide any hidden partitions first, but then Windows sees the new partitions and gives them drive letters. And Windows will forever remember that those drive letters have been assigned even if I later hide the partitions, unless I fix it in the registry. When I first installed OSS from within Windows I had no idea about any of this and wondered why I suddenly couldn't boot into one of my OSes with OSS. Are you able to recreate this setup so you can see and test this for yourself? Because I wonder if I'm not communicating well enough since I feel like I'm repeating the same thing over and over. I mean, I've figured out the workaround and I'm fine, but for the next person who tries what I did will have to go through a big mess to figure it out when this situation could be indicated in the documentation or just fixed in the software. Let me ask again, is it possible for you to recreate what I'm talking about on a system available to you so you can have first hand experience? Because then hopefully you can fully understand what I'm trying to describe and we can be on exactly the same page. I appreciate you hanging in there with me on this, Ilya.

    MJ
     
  16. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Posts:
    25,885
    Hello mjliteman,

    If you install the second copy of Windows on the same hard disk you cannot make the first one hidden without any third-party software. And if that partitions with the first copy is not hidden the secodn copy will use the loader from the first one. If you use third-party software you need to configure Acronis OS Selector from outside of Windows because the messing with other loading software will lead to unexpected results (the one you have described for example). Apparently, the hidden/unhidden option is not available when you try to apply it to the system you have booted but the property itself is read from the disk and Acronis OS Selector just sets the partition to hidden because it was made hidden before Acronis OS Selector was installed. That is why you need to unhide all the partitions and configure Acronis OS Selector from the bootable media.

    Thank you.
    --
    Ilya Toytman
     
  17. mjliteman

    mjliteman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Posts:
    11
    I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you talking about when configuring OSS from within Windows? I wasn't configuring OSS from within Windows, but from the rescue media.

    This is what I've been saying all along! I know OSS reads the hidden status from the disk (and just configuring OSS from the bootable media won't fix it BTW, but installing it from the bootable media after all partitions are unhid is what needs to happen). This is the workaround I already proposed in my second post! I know that this is what happens, what I'm driving at is that OSS should never read the hidden flag at all since we're going to be configuring partition hiding ourselves once it's installed, right? Otherwise, what would be the point of even having the option to do partition hiding within OSS if it just reads what's on the disk already and it can't be changed? What I've been proposing all along is that OSS be fixed/changed so that it never even reads that hidden parameter (better option) or, at the very least, the documentation is updated so that it reflects that when installing OSS, all partitions should first be made visible or the result will be what's described in this thread.

    MJ
     
  18. donl

    donl Guest

    I'm having same problem. I imaged Xp to a second partition of 15GB and I can't boot to it. I have not used another bootloader other than Acronis. I tried the delete info for boot.ini as mentioned by moderator and I was able to boot into 15GB partition finally, but I could see other partition as C: drive and I could not boot into the other partition which I was alway able to boot to.
     
  19. mjliteman

    mjliteman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Posts:
    11
    Well, I guess there is no more interest from Support in this thread. At least a reply saying that this is a low priority or not a priority at all would give it some closure. Hopefully others who run into this situation are able to find this thread and the workaround to this issue.

    MJ
     
  20. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Posts:
    25,885
    Hello mjliteman,

    The problem discussed here appears only when you use third-party boot manager during the second operating system installation. Indeed, when you install the second copy of Windows to another hard drive you may unplug the first drive and then you will get two independent systems. But when you install the second copy to another partitions on the same drive you need to hide the partition with the first copy, otherwise the second copy will find Windows loader and you won't be able to hide the first partition from the second copy of Windows (we have agreed at this point already I believe). So briefly, you need to hide the partition but you cannot do it by means of Windows only and you need some third-party software.

    As for taking the setting from hard disk, it should be done in this way cause these are properties of partition. Even if you hide a partition (or make it active) it should remain hidden (or active) after deletion of operating system under which you did it. And these settings should not depend on the "history" of partition - what was installed on it, what was used to adjust its settnig, etc.

    Thank you.
    --
    Ilya Toytman
     
  21. mjliteman

    mjliteman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Posts:
    11
    Ilya, thank you for responding. If this is the way it needs to be, okay, fine. I'm totally fine with that. In this case, I would hope that the documentation could be updated to include this scenario - that when dual-booting from partitions on the same disk, all partitions should be unhidden and OSS installed both from the rescue media outside of Windows to be able to configure partition hiding correctly. That's all it takes, really. It wouldn't even have to be more detail than that. Just something to alert the consumer of the situation so they aren't dumbfounded when suddenly their dual-boot doesn't work anymore. That's all I ask. :D

    MJ
     
  22. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2004
    Posts:
    25,885
    Hello mjliteman,

    We have an enhancement to avoid greying out all the buttons but to include warning messages. This will allow experienced users modify the settings in the way they wish while novice will be warned of possible problems if their actions are not correct. This will be implemented in future versions of Acronis OS Selector.

    Thank you.
    --
    Ilya Toytman
     
  23. mjliteman

    mjliteman Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    Posts:
    11
    Hey, that's fabulous! I think that's a great way to solve the issue. Ilya, I really appreciate you taking the time to investigate and follow through on this, and for being on the front lines of the forums. I look forward to this enhancement of the future releases.

    MJ
     
  24. LetzRoll

    LetzRoll Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Posts:
    10
    Your issue is with Windows, not OSS. OSS simply illuminates the problem.

    As for the drive letter assignment matter, it is NOT true that a registry hack is required to eradicate an assigned letter. One can accomplish reassignment quite easily in the Disk Management console, and the changes are persistant. :cool:
     
  25. Hase

    Hase Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Posts:
    7
    Hello Ilya,

    I'm still worrying about DDS 9/OS Selector (I am going to buy) working with two existing Windows XP-Installations, previously managed by BootMagic.

    Do I only have to deactivate BootMagic, or do You recommend to deinstall Partition Magic completely?

    Will DDS 9 recognize the two XP OS automatically as Boot Magic does? Do You recommend to install OS Selector from CD?

    To be on the safe side - will my TI 9 copy preserve and reinstall whole HDD with MBR and Windows XP-Installations, if anything is going wrong?


    Thank you in advance.

    Christoph Hassel
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.