Two copies of ATI Home crashed two computers

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by retread, Jun 23, 2007.

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  1. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    I purchased a copy of ATI home 10 on June 15th, and installed it on my computer. It looked like it was going to work, so I attempted to use it to backup my wife's computer. Unfortunately, it crashed her system. I have been unable to get help from customer support via email, and it has been two weeks. In the meanwhile, my system has now crashed. Both these computers have been running stable for the last 3 years. ATI is the only software installed recently. I have found by scanning the forum here that many others have been having the same difficulty, both with major system crashes and lack of response to tech support. Not only am I down for my business, but my wife is upset about wedding plan info on hers. I think Acronis owes it to us to get our systems back up to the point we can return the products for a refund.
     
  2. dantz

    dantz Registered Member

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    So, you can't even boot up? What happens when you try to start your computer? Have you tried booting into Safe mode? Have you tried booting from the Rescue CD?
     
  3. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    BTW...I had the same frustration at trying to report my problem previously (the submit screen freezing) as "homebrewer67" . However, today it worked and I got a canned response from Acronis. Guess they fixed their problem.... now if they can only fix mine!
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2007
  4. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    Dantz:

    I had been using my computer for a couple of days. Used it to google help for my wife's trashed system. In regard to hers... it booted at first, then got progressively bad, until wouldn't boot at all (not even safe mode). Tried using original XP CD but Repair not available... used Recovery Console but couldn't rebuild boot.ini, so gave up and swapped out drives (mirrored). Formatted the original drive and did a clean install on it, swapped it back and thought I had done good.

    When I attempted to use ATI to recover the files now back on drive 2, it crashed again. Gave up.

    Went to work on my computer, only to have it display similar smptoms. Now it is trashed, too. Same-o, same-o..... unable to rebuild boot.ini, etc.

    Please keep in mind that I have been working on these problems for two weeks straight, about 16 hrs/day. I built these computers, and know pretty much how to fix things if they are fixable.
     
  5. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    This forum is visited by a number of TrueImage users who try and help other users as well as by Acronis Tech Support. If you want help, you need to provide some additional information.

    You said that your computer crashed a few days after installing TrueImage. That's not something I've seen reported here. Problems during an installation do occur, but that's more like what you describe for your wife's computer.

    1. What brand and model is your computer?

    2. What brand and model is your wife's computer?

    3. What operating system is on each computer?

    4. What happens when you try to boot your computer? What screens appear and does the system stop at a particular screen or spontaneously reboot? Will the system boot into Safe Mode (press F8 when booting).

    5. Same questions as in 4 for your wife's computer.

    6. Did you download TrueImage or buy it from a dealer on disk? If on disk, do you know what build number you have?

    With this additional infornation, it's likely that you will get some guidance on how to proceed.
     
  6. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    After spending some more time reviewing the posts on this forum, I am coming to the conclusion that my problems are similar to the others who are running a RAID 1 system.

    On my wife's system (Chaintech Zenith) I installed two 160Gb IDE Maxtors utilizing FastTrak onboard RAID controller.

    On my system (Gigabyte 7NJS), I have two 250 Gb SATA Seagates utilizing onboard Silicon Image RAID controller.

    What I think is happening, is that ATI is messing with the partition table and is not compatible with these RAID controllers.

    edit: (jmk94903): I was a little slow seeing your post until I typed the above. One ATI 10 I bought off the shelf at Microcenter, the other I bought from TigerDirect online. Both are on CD. The build number on the first CD that caused my wife's computer to crash is 4871. This was installed on my computer and I downloaded the updated file build 4942 just before it crashed.

    edit 2: both systems run WinXP Pro sp2.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2007
  7. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    I looked at the partitions on my Gigabyte SATA RAID and see an unknown partition in addition to the two mirrored partitions. My guess is that this is the "secret" partition (Acronis Secure Zone). I regret putting this on my system... now if I can only find out how to remove it.

    edit: as I recall it was when I attempted to make a backup of my system (c:\) to this ASZ that things went awry.

    edit 2: I should make it clear that I used only the store-bought CD. I have not attempted to use the online purchased copy yet, so we are only talking about two different builds from the one CD.
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2007
  8. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Manage secure zone under the tools heading in TI is what you need.

    Xpilot
     
  9. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    Definitely use the Build 4942. It may also support your RAID controllers properly since newer builds always have added hardware support.

    Of course, you might not be willing to install TI after the experiences you have had.

    I would definitely not use the Secure Zone. This is a wonderful feature for people with one hard drive and one partition only because it lets them make a backup, but it's nowhere near as good as using an external hard drive or a second internal drive.
     
  10. jonyjoe81

    jonyjoe81 Registered Member

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    Do you have at least a good image of your system partition c: (prior to all these problems), if so maybe you can reload that onto a empty hard drive. If the new hard drive won't boot, download the demo of "paragon justboot corrector" and burn that to a cd and use use it to boot up your computer. From there look at your partitions, your system partition needs to be c: , if it's anything else than that's your problem. It's very common for drive letters to change during restoration's with winxp and multiple hard drives. It's happen to me too many times, but it's an easy fix if you have the right utility's. Another program that I've used to get a unbootable restoration to bootup is " vcom partition commander pro version 10" that has the same "boot corrector" as paragon built-in. Both programs can also edit your boot.ini file. These programs won't work if theres a motherboard/hard drive failure type problem. They work directly on the unbootable hard drive system registry. I have to use both programs a couple of times to fix an unbootable restoration. The only time I could not fix a restoration was due to a bad motherboard input/output errors. If you do have wrong drive letters the link below will show you some ways to repair it with freeware (complicated but proven to work).
    If you do repair your computer get rid of the secure zone (not needed), just do image backups of your c: partition and that will recover you every time.(that's all I do). I keep my backups/recovery procedures very basic and simple.

    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=174958
     
  11. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    I do not have an image of any drives because I just purchased these products. It was while attempting to install them that the crash occurred.

    I noticed that while attempting to use the Windows installation CD to repair WinXP that I could not delete the partition created by Acronis. I hope I can remove it with the ATI CD. Will get back about this.
     
  12. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    Yes, the ATI CD will remove the SecureZone.

    I wouldn't use a SecureZone in your case. It's helpful for people with only one hard drive (no external hard drive) and only one partition on their only drive (and no software to create a second partition). Other than that, it's not needed, and using an external drive for storing the backup is much preferred in most cases.
     
  13. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    Well, I have run out of ideas.

    1.) Windows installation CD sees the partition that Acronis has set up, but will not let me delete it.

    2.) My RAID utility reports a mirror (RAID 1 set) on boot, but when I go into the RAID Utility, I cannot delete the array. Furthermore, even though it reports both drives and the mirror setup, when I attempt to delete, repair, or anything with the existing mirror, it says the mirror does not exist. If I try to add an array, it says not enough disks. So the secret partition that Acronis has installed is preventing my RAID utility from functioning.

    3.) When booting with the Acronis CD, I cannot see the Secure Zone under the Manage Secure Zone utility. Furthermore, I can't see the .tib backup file that I established either. So I can't get Acronis to uninstall the so-called secret partition, nor can I restore my backup that is now hidden also.

    4.) Using the Windows install CD and going into the Recovery console, I did a fixmbr, but that didn't help. The boot.ini looks ok, and I did a rebuild on it with no help.

    5.) It looks like I will have to format the disks and start over. Since I am not getting any help from Acronis, or anyone on this forum, I will just take both copies of ATI back for refund and find a backup software that really works.
     
  14. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    I certainly can understand why you'd do that. I'd probably do the same thing if I hadn't destroyed the disks and boxes in a fit of rage already.

    One last thought would be to use a drive partition program to see if it can remove the SecureZone. Partition Magic or Acronis Disk Director are possibilities.

    I can't think of anything else that you haven't already tried.
     
  15. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    As I am entering this, I am installing a clean copy of WinXP on an IDE HDD, with my SATA drives disconnected. After the install, I will enable the SATA drives one at a time and see what I have on them.

    Interestingly, when I booted to Safe mode, I was able to uninstall several programs that I thought might be a source of difficulty, but I could not uninstall Acronis.

    I just can't get over this software that sticks like mud to everything, and you can't get rid of it.
     
  16. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    Very odd, I've uninstalled TI many times before installing a newer build and never had a problem. However, we do see reports periodically of people who have uninstall problems.
     
  17. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    UPDATE:

    I was successful in that I have rebuilt my system. However, it was done sans Acronis. Thankfully, I have a motherboard that supports both SATA and IDE RAID in hardware. To accomplished this, I disconnected my SATA drives, installed an IDE drive, formatted and installed Windows on it. Reconnected one SATA drive, used the IDE drive to pull a copy of the folders from that SATA drive onto itself, then connected the other SATA drive, formatted them both and installed Windows on the C: drive. Now I can boot Windows from either the SATA or the IDE drive, depending on my BIOS setting. I partitioned the IDE drive to give me room to backup my SATA drive on it, and so far, everything works like it did before I attempted to use Acronis.

    I don't have the nerve to install Acronis, so I am returning it. This has already cost me two weeks of non-productivity.
     
  18. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    You don't need to install Acronis. You could simply use the emergency CD to make an image. As this uses Linux and not windows I do not see how it could crash your machine. Although perhaps with the way you have your system configured it might be best to leave well alone ?
     
  19. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    Thanks for the comment, Long View. I recognize that I don't HAVE to install Acronis to use it from the CD, but even though I purchased my copies recently, the versions are not the latest update. This is most revealing. There are so many recent updates, that it is obvious that there is a scramble at Acronis to fix many bugs. It seems as though they are trying to stamp out fires all around their feet.

    I used Partition Magic for years, and whenever I wanted to uninstall it, PM returned the MBR/MFT back to the original state. I am not sure that Acronis does this. Therefore, to get the latest update I have to gamble that the install can be uninstalled without leaving footprints. I am not willing to take this chance.
     
  20. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    If your existing CD works then you could make a full image of your clean system with the CD, download the latest, make a new CD, and restore the "clean" system with the full image leaving no trace of Acronis on your system. I'm not so sure about raid and running IDE and SATA together. As Acronis 6, 7, 8, 9, 9.1 and 10 have worked fine for me on numerous desktop and lap tops I can only assume that something in your hardware setup in confusing Acronis.

    Sorry I haven't read all the posts but - does the CD work ?
     
  21. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    Longview: Sorry to take so long for a reply.... As I said earlier, I was able to rebuild my one computer by a long workaround, and returned the ATI I used on it for a refund where I had purchased it at MicroCenter.

    I have another ATI Home v10 (build 4871) that I bought online from TigerDirect last month. I get problems with it, too, and my other computer has a completely different motherboard. I used the bootable CD on it today to attempt to restore the partition file that Acronis changed to no avail. Looks like I am left with having to format this drive, also. I rue the day I first tried to use Acronis True Image!


    I have tried without success to repair the windows installation corrupted by the other Acronis CD using this second one. Using the second CD (the one I have not returned yet) in an attempt to backup files to another disk causes a lock-up no matter what options I select (compression or not, etc.). So far, I both ATI products I purchased have not worked.

    Since neither Acronis True Image CDs work on either of two separate computers, one is left to deduce that there is a problem with the Acronis software.

    I am not a novice at computing. I built my first computer in 1982. Back then I used Digital Research's CP/M, having to build my own device drivers in assembly language. From there, matriculating to DOS all the way up to 6.22, Windows 3.0 to XP. I also used Partition Magic 7 and 8 for years without much problem.

    This program is just too full of bugs. For example, when I put the bootable CD in, it displays "ohci1394_0: SelfID received outside of bus reset sequence". I disable my 1394 driver and it goes away. No big problem, but it shows a flaw there. (It did this on my other system with the other CD, too, so it is not my hardware!)
     
  22. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    BTW: Both computers utilize on-board RAID. The Gigabyte uses Silicon Image software, and the ChainTech uses Promise Technologies. The Gigabyte has two 250Gb Seagate SATA drives that I have mirrored, and a 500Gb Seagate IDE used separately for backup. The ChainTech has two 120Gb Maxtor IDEs mirrored (RAID1) and a 500Gb Seagate SATA kept separate for backup. Both are networked and use a D-Link DNS-323 NAS for redundancy.

    I mention this to illustrate the difference in the systems so that I can offer the point that the problems I have been having have less to do with hardware, and more to do with software. The only common points are Windows XP Pro, and RAID. (However, even with a broken mirror, ATI will not work.)

    (edit: Another common point I failed to mention is both systems utilize Award BIOS.)
     
  23. retread

    retread Registered Member

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    Failed to note that the most common point is the Acronis CD. After getting it to install ONCE, and then because of Windows corruption forcing another format and re-install, could not get it to install again, no matter how many times I tried. I considered the CD corrupt, and returned it for exchange. When the new copy arrives, I will try once more to install ATI from CD.

    I should mention that what finally made me realize the problem lies in the CD copy I had, is that I was able to download the online demo and install it with no problem. The fact that I was able to install the program from the CD once must have been a fluke. It always hung during install, and when attempting to run anything from the CD from BIOS boot, also hung.
     
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