True Image 9 screws up boot.ini and clone

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by LSHorwitz, Mar 11, 2006.

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  1. LSHorwitz

    LSHorwitz Registered Member

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    I've been pulling my hair out and spending many (7) hours trying to figure out why True Image 9 cannot make bootable disks when recovering a backup image to the boot drive. It has now become clear that True Image 9 somehow modifies the partition number, and then the loader is unable to load the restored image. Editing the boot.ini fixed the problem. This took way too much screwing around to discover.

    I also found that "cloning" a working boot disk resulted in the boot disk becoming corrupted, even though there were ****ABSOLUTELY NO WRITES*** to the source disk requested / specified in the cloning directions. Instead of getting a good, bootable clone, I got a damaged original and a non-bootable copy as well. What a horror show.....

    I NEVER had these type of problems with TI version 8 on this same computer with the same disk drives. WTF is going on with this producto_O??


    Larry
     
  2. Chutsman

    Chutsman Registered Member

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    Welcome to the club ... as the saying goes. What build of TI 9 are you using and what errors are there when you try to boot - both with the clone and the original? The Clone feature seems to have its own unique set of problems. Better to try the Imaging feature instead. I know it's an extra step and will require somewhere to store the image, but you will have success with it.
     
  3. LSHorwitz

    LSHorwitz Registered Member

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    Thanks for replying, Chutsman.

    I initially tried to do a recovery from an image, and the recovered disk would not boot. The error message was a lengthy description that I had a hardware configuration problem and suggested I consult my hardware documentation. This recovered image was ultimately made bootable by editing the boot.ini file to correct the erroneous partitition number.

    When I previously attempted to clone the original disk, both the clone and the original failed to boot in the same manner, with the terse error message stating that there was "No OS Found". I just could NOT BELIEVE that my original disk was damaged and made unbootable by Acronis True Image, but it definitely corrupted my source disk.

    I also now have found that 2 other attached drives became partially corrupted during this attempted recovery using True Image. I ran CHKDSK and it reported finding and repairing errors on both disks. Now I have zero byte length files all over the place, with the correct file names and directory structure but zero byte length and no content!

    I am using the latest build (2337). I've been making backups with this (and prior version) software for years, but this is the very first time I have ever needed to recover a disk. It left me with an absolute mess!!!

    Larry
     
  4. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hello Larry,

    Imaging and cloning a hard drive stretches the performance of your systems memory to, and sometimes beyond, the limit. To make sure all is well in that department, download and run <Memtest86+> for 2 to 3 hours and make sure there are zero errors reported. If you do get errors then either the memory is going flakey or the memory timing has been set too aggresively for that particular brand.

    Regards
     
  5. LSHorwitz

    LSHorwitz Registered Member

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    Thanks Menorcaman for your reply. I just finished running the Memtest program for a total "WallTime" of 2 and a half hours. It reported no errors.

    The hardware I am using is all very stable, quality stuff......Crucial RAM, Dell computer, and no overclocking, temperature issues, etc. I do lots of memory intensive work with this machine (video editing, rendering, big Photoshop RAW file editing, etc., large spreadsheets, etc.) and have never had any hardware issues whatsoever.

    My personal belief is that TI9 has some serious bugs. I am now very tempted to reinstall the older vesion 8, since I have so little confidence in this newer version. The older version worked fine for all of the times I needed it. This new version definitely has some corruptionption issues, and the boot.ini is definitely getting altered somehow.

    Thanks for all help and comments.

    Larry
     
  6. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello Larry,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    Please create Acronis Report and Windows System Information as it is described in Acronis Help Post and submit a request for technical support. Attach the collected file and information to your request along with the step-by-step description of the actions taken before the problem appears and the link to this thread. We will investigate the problem and try to provide you with the solution.

    Thank you.
    --
    Kirill Omelchenko
     
  7. tekman2000

    tekman2000 Registered Member

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    Hello fellow end users of Acronis True Image,

    I am an A+ certified computer repair technician that sees 2 to three end users a day.

    We use Acronis True Image 7 in our shop and it works great.

    A couple of years ago I was a tier 2 level systems administrator supporting about 500 end users at a large Portland Oregon company and I constantly had to deal with “programmers” that failed to do proper quality assurance testing.

    I just purchased and downloaded True Image 9 then created an image of my latest TOP OF THE LINE build (a little bragging here…… 3.46 ghz. Intel Extreme dual core with hyper threading, 8 gigs DDR 2 RAM, dual Ge-Force 7900 GTX’s using SLI through the board on a single DVI 30 inch Dell flat panel.) and stored it onto a 2nd physical hard drive in the same system.

    THE IDEA WAS TO PROTECT THE SYSTEM THAT I JUST SPENT 8 HOURS INSTALLING SOFTWARE ON, NOT MAKE IT WORSE.

    Then I went to reboot and got:

    “NTLDR is missing.
    Press ctrl + del + to restart”

    HEY ACRONIS…..you have some serious flaws here in your software. It made incorrect changes to the master boot record.

    AND The Acronis boot disk fails to work TOO, WHAT ARE YOUR PROGRAMMERS SMOKINGo_O?

    I used Bart PE to view my excising boot.ini file and it looks fine.

    So then I unplugged the second hard drive which is where I stored the Image and at least Windows starts. But now every time the system is started I get:

    “MBR error 2”

    But Windows does start.

    THIS WAS A FRESH CLEAN SOFTWARE BUILD ON A BRAND NEW HARDWARE BUILD, YOU STUPID IDIOTS, until your poorly written software was run.

    I have used Power Quests Drive Image for years and also Ghost now owned by Symantec.

    I recommend software to our thousands of customers VERY offend. If I have to completely rebuild my system’s software because of your ineptitude then I will first have our company switch to either Ghost or Power Quest’s Drive Image and then I will make sure that the customers that I speak with know about your junk software.

    I am too tired and too upset to deal with this any more today.

    I am going to go game on one of my other four computers.
     
  8. LSHorwitz

    LSHorwitz Registered Member

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    I have downloaded and reinstalled the latest True Image V9 build, and repeated my image creation and recovery from start to finish with another boot disk. This time all worked properly, resulting in a succesful bootable disk with no need to make any additional repairs. I can only conclude that the previous failures arose from a bad installation, giving no error messages or warnings to indicate that my backups or recovery were faulty until I actually tried to recover and could not boot.

    I have not tried the TI V9 functions which also seemed screwed up, like cloning, or file and folder backup, so I can't say they are working properly now. I only use the create image and recover image features so I personally do not care, but they certainly did NOT work properly on my prior installation of this latest V9 build.

    Thanks to all for your help in trying to solve this problem.

    Larry
     
  9. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    lil' rant split off there - let's keep it reasonable ;)
     
  10. tekman2000

    tekman2000 Registered Member

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    I’ll tell you what reasonable is…….

    Getting my money back, $59.98 already deducted from my checking account.

    Or a fix for an obvious faulty build.

    I am just two tests away from my MCSE……please don’t try to push this on me!

    I live and breath computers.

    It is absolutely, positively Acronis engineers that FAILED to do proper quality assurance BEFORE they released this product to the public.

    Please…..lets NOT make this a law suite issue.

    I am sending an email request to Acronis with all of the facts.

    We will go from there.

    And thank you very much Sir Web Master……I know how difficult your position is. I was a web master in training at another big company here in Portland Oregon. And you have to keep these forums respectable.

    No harm meant to you at all…….this is Acronis software engineers that I need to speak with.

    For right now I am going to purchase the latest version of Power Quest Drive Image and attempt to recover my data from my secondary hard drive in another one of my systems.

    Live long and prosper.

    :)
     
  11. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    You may live and breath computers but PowerQuest doesn't anymore. You're going to have get an older version of Drive Image since PowerQuest was absorbed by Symantec a year or two ago. If your really want the latest Drive Image, it is being marketed in a bastardized version as the latest Ghost.
     
  12. paultwang

    paultwang Registered Member

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    Did not happen to me. Recovery was lengthy (1 hr 20 minutes) but worked. I used all default options: I did not resize partition during recovery. I left the drive letter the same. I left the "Active" radio button selected.
     
  13. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    A little unsure where you're coming from here - I don't think you even know the content of the post/rant that I removed - it wasn't even a post you made.

    I guess that is an issue between you and Acronis -has nothing to do with volunteer Global Moderators. I also think such threats should at least be handled in private.

    Now that's the way to go - and the way to get results.

    As noted by seekforever, that will be difficult since Powerquest has been gone for some time now. Either way, let's all remember that this is the Acronis support forum - not a forum section for discussing other software. The appropriate section for that can be found at this link.
     
  14. joema

    joema Registered Member

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    Larry, I just had the same problem two days ago with TI 9. I've worked with computers for 28 years, from mainframes to PCs. This is the worst data integrity I've ever seen.

    It's one thing to malfunction and not clone correctly. But to damage the operating system on the SOURCE disk is serious.

    I liked how fast it ran, but what's the point if it damages your source disk? I've used other less capable clone programs and they never damaged my source disk. Such a thing is unthinkable.

    Have there been any other reports of this? Have any previous investigations determined a cause?
     
  15. LSHorwitz

    LSHorwitz Registered Member

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    Joema,

    Sorry to hear you also had the same problem as I did. I absolutely could NOT BELIEVE that cloning software would clobber my original and make a broken worthless clone at the same time. Thankfully I had an older image file whcih eventually could be recovered even thought I lost another week of work files.

    I do not know if you and I are the only victims or if others have had the same problem.

    I eventually reloaded and reinstalled the latest version of TI9 and it now creates and recovers images properly, or so it appears. I am absolutely unwilling to even try the clone function because I cannot afford the risk of blowing out another source disk. What a pathetic situation Acronis has created..........people afraid to run their backup software again because they do not want to risk losing their original source material.

    I would stick to image creation and recovery and forget cloning for now. I also have had no good experience with the file and folder backup feature, another wonderful improvement if only it worked correctly......

    Larry
     
  16. joema

    joema Registered Member

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    For the record, here's a detailed account of what I did and the hardware/software used:

    Summary description: TI 9 disk clone from EIDE to SATA drive renders both drives unbootable.

    Detailed description: TI 9 disk clone from Maxtor 160GB EIDE drive to Maxtor 200GB SATA drive. Behavior: after disk clone, both drives would not boot, but hung on Windows XP screen. Exact behavior: Boot begins, Windows XP displays for several seconds, then all-blue screen for about 30 sec, then Windows XP screen permanently. Cursor moves, screen briefly blinks every few seconds with cursor momentarily going to hourglass. Sequence repeats indefinitely.

    Tried using XP recovery console and chkdsk /R, Fixmbr, fixboot, and bootcfg /rebuild. No solution found, had to install and boot from backup hard drive and salvage files from non-bootable drives.

    Hardware/Software:
    Windows XP SP2 home edition
    eMachines T3265, 1GB RAM
    True Image 9, build 2337

    Master drive: EIDE drive (using motherboard controller): Maxtor 160GB 7200RPM DiamondMax Plus 9 EIDE, UDMA/133, 7200 RPM - Model: 6Y160P0
    Slave drive: SATA Drive: Maxtor 200GB 7200 RPM DiamondMax 10, Model: 6L200M0
    Controller for EIDE master drive: Built-in motherboard controller: nvidia nForce2 IDE controller, driver 6.1.2600.0
    Controller for SATA slave drive: Maxtor IDE Combo controller: Ultra ATA/133, PCI, Serial ATA/150, model number: K01PCSATA

    SATA drive formatted with Maxtor MaxBlast 4 utility.

    Procedure: TI 9 disk clone from EIDE to SATA drive, change EIDE to slave using cable select, set SATA drive as boot using MaxBlast 4, SATA drive won't boot. Remove SATA drive, make EIDE master drive, it won't boot. Boot using XP recovery console, try chkdsk /R, Fixmbr, fixboot,and bootcfg /rebuild, still won't boot -- hangs on Windows screen. Tried various other things several hrs, gave up and installed backup EIDE hard drive with XP, put non-bootable EIDE drive in slave position, salvaged data.

    Returned SATA drive, got new EIDE Maxtor DiamondMax 10 250GB PATA133 drive, followed same above TI 9 procedure, clone from EIDE master to EIDE slave worked perfectly.

    Other details: on problematic EIDE->SATA clone, SATA drive was partitioned and formatted with Maxtore MaxBlast4 utility, including MaxBlast4 "fix" for 137GB limitation. On successful EIDE->EIDE clone, new drive was partitioned and formatted with XP admin utilities. Don't know if related to problem.
     
  17. Kalimero

    Kalimero Registered Member

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    I tried to copy my OS partition to a new HD e since clone does not make single partition but only entire disks I pass throught the image, but when I mount my clone disk to boot it frezees at logon with no possible choice of User (even if I skip password).
    I've tried also Norton Ghost 10 e Norton Ghost 2003 from floppy with same results... fortunally my original disk still perfectly work... but I have no idea to solve this problem...
    some suggestions?

    http://img123.imageshack.us/img123/8295/avvioxp9yz.jpg
    this is the jpeg of where my cloned os frezees.
     
  18. joema

    joema Registered Member

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    Kalimero, make sure your new cloned disk is set to the master position, and the slave disk (the one from which you cloned the data) is either disconnected or set to slave. This is done with drive jumpers or swapping the EIDE cable (if drives are set to cable select). Check your drive documentation if unsure. If you don't have drive documentation search for jumper information about the drive model number on the internet.

    Also when the cloned drive is mounted in the master position, check your computer BIOS to see if the drive was properly identified.

    I opened an Acronis support case for my previously-described problem.
     
  19. Kalimero

    Kalimero Registered Member

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    This is not my problem... hard disk are well setted...
     
  20. LSHorwitz

    LSHorwitz Registered Member

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    joema and Kalimero,

    I wanted to mention that my damaged source disk when cloning was a SATA and my destination disk was also a SATA, and both were unuseable after True Image was used. joema was using an IDE drive as a source.

    I previously tried to clone an IDE to a SATA (the same as joema tried to do) and neither of the Trui Image versions of their backup programs I tried would work either to clone or image/recover, but Ghost 2003 was able to do it using the floppy version if I set optional settings properly, but only after a bit of screwing around.


    I really would forget about trying to clone using TI 9, based on my own experience. The Create Image and Recover Image seem to work now (in the latest rev, finally) with SATA drives, but maybe the EIDE to SATA is still an issue. Create Image / Recover are a safer method to protect the source disk from getting clobbered.

    Larry
     
  21. Kalimero

    Kalimero Registered Member

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  22. LSHorwitz

    LSHorwitz Registered Member

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    Kalimero,

    I also solved the problem using a similar method as I posted in my original message. By editing the boot.ini file, I was able to get the recovered image to run from an older image. This is is the same approach you show in the link from Bryan K.

    Why in the world should it be neccesary to repair the boot.ini file?? The source and recovered disk are both installed as the "C:" drive using the same (Primary) SATa controller, connected exactly the same way as the original disk. There was no change of drive letter, or the way it is connected.

    In my case, the boot.ini file had been modified to a new partion number. I have no idea why, but it must have been True Image which changed it, since no other program (I am aware of) touched the recovered disk.

    Larry
     
  23. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    Is this explained by the link mentioned above, that is:
    http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm ? I'm not saying it was but am wondering.
     
  24. Nontechguy

    Nontechguy Registered Member

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    What a clown , Your such a idiot it isn't funny clown , The clown freak out with a hidden user name , I mean he just created this user name just to freak out but, Yet wouldn't use his original one , lots of balls you have clown , why don't you use your real user name that you have created from the beginning with this forum ? Or wait maybe later you are going to realize that you were wrong and your not man enough to admit it , Is this why you needed to recreate a new user name ? Clown
     
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