True Image 8 - Paging file and USB problems

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Colin D, Jun 7, 2005.

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  1. Colin D

    Colin D Registered Member

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    Hello all,
    I purchased TI8 (build 826) a couple of days ago, and duly installed it on my computer, but during testing and familiarizing myself with the software, I have encountered a few problems.

    First, the hardware is an Asus P4C800-E Deluxe m/board with a P4 3.0 GHz cpu, a 120GB Seagate ATA drive partitioned into C:, D:, E:, and F: drives; 2 CD/DVD RW drives as G: and H:, and a 40GB Seagate ATA secondary drive for backup purposes as J:. The two hard drives are mounted in interchangeable drive bays. A further 40GB USB 2.0 outboard drive K: is connected as well.

    The OS is Win 2000 Pro, and the total software plus data on C: is about 10.7 GB.

    During testing and learning about TI8, I made image backups to D: (7 minutes), G: (DVD, about 17 minutes), and K: (USB 2, about 6 minutes).

    So far, so good. I then removed the C: drive, and fitted the D: drive in its place [so D: became C:], booted the emergency CD, and restored from the DVD to C:, which took about 11 minutes, very satisfactory. Then, I attempted to boot the computer from the newly restored drive.

    Problem number one surfaced. Part way through the boot process, I got a message telling me that the Paging File was either missing or too small. I knew it was missing, as TI8 specifies that it does not copy the paging file. But there appears to be no way to start 2000 without a paging file. Repeated attempts would not proceed past the same message. If I cannot get around this, there is no point in doing TI8 backups.

    Question number one: how do I get around this problem? Extensive Google searches failed to give an answer. Can I configure TI8 to back up the paging file?

    Then problem number two surfaced when I tried to restore from the USB drive via the emergency CD. The emergency CD simply does not recognise any USB connections, which means that I cannot use my outboard USB drive for image restore in the event that the C: drive crashes beyond repair - and the paging file problem is relevant here as well.

    What I want is a backup setup that is normally independent of the computer, so that in the event of a power surge, power supply failure, or any malfunction that takes out the entire computer, I can restore from a USB drive into another machine. Currently it appears that TI8 cannot do this. The 'bare metal restore' capability as mentioned in the sales write-ups is more limited than one would expect.

    I would be pleased if someone could either verify these problems are real, or if they can be fixed.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2005
  2. mrtee

    mrtee Registered Member

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    About the paging file -

    "I got a message telling me that the Paging File was either missing or too small"

    Do you by any chance have "Intel Application Accelerator" installed? If you do, IT is the problem not TI8. Uninstall IAA, create the image, restore the image and reinstall IAA.

    I spent 6 hours one night a couple of years ago with the same page file problem and Windows XP.
     
  3. Colin D

    Colin D Registered Member

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    Thank you for your prompt answer, Mrtee. however, negative on the Intel accelerator. That utility applies only to selected chipsets, and I just checked with the Intel site. My chipset is 875, and is not in their list. There is an accelerator of some sort in the bios, and I disabled that and booted again from the restored drive, only to get the same response - no paging file. Multiple reboots did not solve the problem either, having read somewhere that a second boot fixes it. In my case it didn't, unfortunately.
     
  4. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

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    Colin, what you are doing sounds very reasonable and straightforward, and it should work. I have no idea why it does not :(

    Someone else posted a similar problem pagefile problem. However, in his(?) case Windos just complained about a missing pagefile, but it booted and ran okay. I don't think the issue was resolved - as far as I recall the last post asked the originator to check a key in registry that contained the drive letter where the paging file was stored.

    Ahh - here it is:
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=83282&highlight=pagefile

    Is it possible for you to start in Windows Safe Mode, go into the registry and check where Windows is attempting to create the pagefile?
     
  5. Colin D

    Colin D Registered Member

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    Thanks, Minimax for your reply also. I followed your link to the post containing the registry details about the paging file, firstly in this drive, my normal drive, and the entry showed the file in c:\ and 1.5GB, 1.5GB (I made it a static size some time ago).

    Then I fitted the restored drive into the C:\ bay and booted into safe mode as suggested, but the same paging file error popped up there, and multiple reboots would not get past the error. I don't think I am prepared to try removing the paging file from my normal drive, as if I jigger that drive, I will be in real deep s**t, so that isn't an option for me.

    This situation begs the question as to why Acronis thought it fit not to backup the paging file anyway. On most systems it would account for probably less than 10% of the backup file size, and it would obviate potential problems such as I am having. I don't think the developers have thought this through properly - or they were driven by competitive timings with other programs.

    I am beginning to think a refund might be the way to go here :(
     
  6. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello Colin D,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    Acronis automatically detects Windows hibernation and swap (paging) files and will not include them in the image, as they are temporary files that boost system performance but are not required to run the operating system.

    Could you please clarify what you mean by "Then removed the C: drive, and fitted the D: drive in its place [so D: became C:]"? You create the image of D: drive on DVD, then restore it on C: drive, am I correct?

    Also please try the "acpi=off noapic" workaround, then please let me know the result.

    Thank you.
    --
    Irina Shirokova
     
  7. Colin D

    Colin D Registered Member

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    Hello Irina, Thank you for your reply.

    To clarify the disk situation, I have two hard drives in the computer, both are mounted in removable drive bays. Normally the 120GB drive contains drive C: and is the primary IDE master drive. The 40GB drive is normally J: (as there are four partitions on the 120GB drive, and two CD/DVD drives as G: and H:, and I is reserved for memory stick).

    The drive C: partition is 29.993 GB, and the J: drive is also partitioned at the same size. (The reminder of that drive is unused).

    Now, I made an image of drive C: onto a DVD in drive G:, and verified it as ok. I then powered off, removed the drive bay with the 120GB drive (which has C: on it), and replaced it with what was the J: drive, after having formatted the drive when it was J:.

    The erstwhile J: drive is now the C: drive, as it is now set up as the primary IDE master, and it is empty, having been formatted.

    Next, I booted the True Image emergency CD, and used that program to recreate the C: drive from the DVD backup disk.

    Then, I rebooted, this time booting from the C: drive as usual. The boot process started and went through to the blue screen, announced it was setting up the network connections (to my broadband router), and then showed the "no paging file" error screen. And there it stuck.

    About disabling acpi, I am reluctant to do this. It will disable the auto power off, and the other power management functions that acpi provides, and I am not at all sure they will be available when I enable acpi again. Further, even if disabling ACPI does work, I would be inclined to regard this as a 'kludge' solution to get around TI's not saving the paging file. I can't think of any reason not to save that file with the backup, except to save space and maybe time. The extra space would probably be less than 10%, and the small increase in backup time is irrelevant. What about a switch in TI to make saving the paging file optional?

    I would also appreciate your comments on the unavailability of USB in the emergency recovery program.

    Thank you for your attention,

    Colin.
     
  8. beenthereb4

    beenthereb4 Registered Member

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    I would suggest that these types of paging file problems might be related to the fact that the operating system has seen this drive before (it knows the drive by it's disk signature). Formatting the drive does not fix this because the signature is still there. The operating system believes that this is not the correct drive for the paging file.
     
  9. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello Colin,

    beenthereb4 is correct. You can try the following plan:

    1. Remove your 40Gb drive.
    2. Create an image of C: drive.
    3. Then add 40 Gb drive and restore your image on it.

    Thank you.
    --
    Irina Shirokova
     
  10. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

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    Quick note: Colin, the acpi/apic trick refered to by Acronis Support is a startup parameter to the Linux kernel on the Rescue CD. It has nothing to do with your BIOS or your Windows kernel, and it is only used during the boot of the Acronis TI kernel (but I have no clue how it can have any bearing on your pagefile problem o_O).
     
  11. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

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    Not 1000 wild horses could get me to suggest that you change anything on your "production" drive. I hoped that you could boot the "test" drive in Windows Safe Mode, start RegEdit, and delete the Pagefile key. Then reboot, and see if you could use My Compter -> Properties -> ..... -> Pagefile settings to correct the problem.
     
  12. MiniMax

    MiniMax Registered Member

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    Anyone have that link Menorcam posted about how to use FDISK /MBR from Win98 to wipe that signature from the disk (later versions of FDISK misses the last 4 bytes where the signature is kept)??
     
  13. Colin D

    Colin D Registered Member

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    My thanks to all who have helped me with this problem, Mrtee, Minimax, Irina Shirokova, and Beenthereb4.

    A suggestion by beenthereb4 set me thinking about drive initializing, so I looked out my disk with Seagate's drive initializing program, fitted the 40GB drive as the primary IDE master, and ran the Seagate program on it as if it were a new drive.

    Then, I booted the TI emergency CD and restored from the DVD, the same DVD that resulted in the 'no paging file' error when restored to this 40GB drive.

    This time, however, thanks to the Seagate initializing, the restored drive booted normally, with no sign of the paging file error, and ran perfectly.

    So, I conclude, from beenthereb4's remarks, and the success from initializing the drive first, that there was remaining on the drive some data that confused Windows about where the paging file was to be found. My emergency kit now includes the Seagate progam on a CD, along with the TI CD. A weight has been lifted from my mind.

    Nobody has yet commented on restoring via the emergency CD from a USB backup drive. Is TI supposed to be able to do this?

    Thanks again,

    Colin (in New Zealand) :)
     
  14. Rude Boy

    Rude Boy Registered Member

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    If I may make a suggestion…

    Personally, I don’t perform any Schedule Backups… Rather, I make a clean Build Image, and by means of Windows Redirection, should my current XP install become corrupt due to use or random failure (you know, the standard “Aww crap… What’s the problem now…?!?”)

    Not an everyday occurrence… But, should anything become “F.U.B.A.R.”, I’m back up and running in about 5 minutes, instead of 5 days…

    In other words… Whether I’m swapping drives (as you mention), or trying to solve a problem with some software that my wife downloaded and installed… (or that “ghetto” ActiveSync software that her iPAQ PocketPC uses with it’s “AddinMon.exe”)… I no longer worry about it… If it gets all jacked up, I just restore the Build Image, and it’s “good to go”…



    The following is an excerpt that I wrote for a User, that was a bit on the naïve end of the spectrum… But I’ve included it with the hope that it might give you an alternative idea for a solution… But you know your needs more than I… ;)

    Again, this was written for a “Non-IT User”, so please don’t laugh… And adjust partition sizes as preferred...


    Hope this helps… Good luck, Bro…!!!

    Take it easy, and have a good one…

    -Rude Boy


    EXCERPT::

    OK... Listen up...

    If you want to do it properly, and save yourself countless hours in the future, then do what I suggest...

    (This is under the premise that you are up to date with your operating system [WinXP] and all patches )

    IMPORTANT:: Back up ALL of your irreplaceable data to DVD or CD and VERIFY it...!!!



    Purchace and download a copy of “Acronis True Image 8.0”::

    http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

    Burn a copy of that to CD for your archives...


    Open “My Computer” / “Local Disk ( C: )”

    Hold down the “CTRL” key and select the following directories::
    Documents and Settings, Program Files, System Volume Information, Windows


    Right Click the selected directories and select “Properties”

    Take note of the “Size” in GB...

    Reboot your computer with your Windows CD in the drive...

    Choose “Re-install” Windows (NOT “Repair”)...

    Delete the OLD partition and create a NEW partition...

    Give the NEW partition an appropriate size correlating the “Documents and Settings, Program Files, System Volume Information, Windows” directory file size... (Unless you have a lot of games installed, you should only need about 8 GB – 10 GB at the most)...

    Be safe and partition it for 10 GB [~10240 MB] (unless you know that you NEED more)...

    Choose a FULL FORMAT...

    Install windows...

    Intstall “Acronis True Image 8.0” and create an “Image” (save it to your D: drive) first, before you do ANYTHING else...

    Click “Start” / “Administrative Tools” / “Computer Management” / “Disk Management”

    Right-Click the un-partitioned drive space and create a NEW partition of 5 GB [5120 MB], format it with the name “Swap File”...

    When it’s done formatting, Right-Click the 5 GB [5120] MB “Swap File” partition and assign it the drive letter “F:”...

    Right-Click the remaining un-partitioned drive space and create a NEW partition of all remaining space...

    When it’s done formatting, Right-Click the partition and assign it the drive letter “E:”...

    You should now have::

    Disk 0 Partition 1:: [Local Disk ( C: )] 10GB
    Disk 0 Partition 2:: [Swap File ( F: )] 5GB
    Disk 0 Partition 3:: [Local Disk ( E: )] Remaining GB
    Disk 1 Partition 1:: [Local Disk ( D: )] Existing GB



    NOTE:: It would be preferable to have a scenario like::

    Disk 0 Partition 1:: [Local Disk ( C: )] 10GB
    Disk 0 Partition 2:: [Local Disk ( E: )] Remaining GB
    Disk 1 Partition 1:: [Swap File ( F: )] 5GB
    Disk 1 Partition 2:: [Local Disk ( D: )] Existing GB


    NOTE (continued):: This scenario would require you to “Juggle” your data, and require the formatting of both Physical Drives, but this would increase your system performance, as the Swap File will be the beginning Partition on a separate Drive, other than your Operating Systems working drive...


    (Reboot as necessary...)

    Right-Click “My Computer” / “Properties” / “Advanced” / “Performance Settings” / “Advanced” / “Virtual Memory” / “Change”

    Select drive ( C: ) / “No Paging File”...

    Select drive ( F: ) / “Custom Size”
    -Set Initial Size = 4096 MB
    -Set Maximum Size = 4096 MB


    Click “Set”...

    Click “OK”...

    Click “OK”...

    Reboot...

    Make another Acronis Image...









    Make a new Directory on ( D: ) or ( E: ) if you prefer:: D:\WinXP Redirection\

    (NOTE:: Make sure that you create corresponding directories for the following)

    Click “Start” / “Run” / “RegEdit”

    Change the following values to:

    “HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders\”::

    Administrative Tools:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu\Programs\Administrative Tools
    Desktop:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Desktop
    Favorites:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\Favorites
    My Music :: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\My Music
    My Pictures:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\My Pictures
    My Video:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\My Video
    Personal:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents
    Programs:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu\Programs
    Start Menu:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu
    Startup:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu\Programs\Startup




    “HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\User Shell Folders\”::

    Administrative Tools:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu\Programs\Administrative Tools
    Desktop:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Desktop
    Favorites:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\Favorites
    My Music :: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\My Music
    My Pictures:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\My Pictures
    My Video:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\My Video
    Personal:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents
    Programs:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu\Programs
    Start Menu:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu
    Startup:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu\Programs\Startup




    “HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders\”::

    Common Administrative Tools:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu\Programs\Administrative Tools
    Common Desktop:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Desktop
    Common Documents:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents
    Common Favorites:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\Favorites
    Common Programs:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu\Programs
    Common Start Menu:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu
    Common Startup:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu\Programs\Startup
    CommonMusic :: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\My Music
    CommonPictures:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\My Pictures
    CommonVideo:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\My Video
    Personal:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents





    “HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\User Shell Folders\”::


    Common Administrative Tools:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu\Programs\Administrative Tools
    Common Desktop:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Desktop
    Common Documents:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents
    Common Favorites:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\Favorites
    Common Programs:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu\Programs
    Common Start Menu:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu
    Common Startup:: D:\WinXP Redirection\Start Menu\Programs\Startup
    CommonMusic :: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\My Music
    CommonPictures:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\My Pictures
    CommonVideo:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents\My Video
    Personal:: D:\WinXP Redirection\My Documents





    Reboot...

    Create another Acronis Image...

    Configure Windows to your aesthetic preference...

    Install Windows security patches...

    Create another Acronis Image...

    Install your Baseline Software, Firewalls, etceteras…

    Create another Acronis Image...

    Fine tune your configurations...

    Create a FINAL (GOLDEN) Baseline Acronis Image...

    NOTE:: Once you have used (tested) your (GOLDEN) Baseline Acronis Image, and are comfortable that it is a “solid build”, then delete the previous (non-GOLDEN) images… (i.e. When you are sure that you don’t need to “back-step”…)



    You should then have a computer that has a maximum size Swap File (for when you need it), Default Pointers redirected to a separate partition so you can Restore your FINAL (GOLDEN) Baseline Acronis Image when you need to in 5 minutes instead of 5 days, without having to worry about loosing any valuable irreplaceable data (i.e. your desktop will be current if you restored an Image)...

    Your Plugins directory will be safe and as large as you want... and you’ll get the most of your hard drives...

    You might also want to consider buying a copy of Raxco’s “Perfect Disk” http://www.raxco.com/

    If you do this, the way I’ve written... You will never have to worry about corrupting Windows, or running out of space... Nor do you ever need to worry about installing Windows from “Scratch” on that deck ever again...
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2005
  15. SSK

    SSK Registered Member

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    Nice one, Rude Boy! Thanks! :D
     
  16. Rude Boy

    Rude Boy Registered Member

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    No worries, Brah...!!!


    Take it easy, and have a good one...
    "Rude Boy"
     
  17. Kbarb

    Kbarb Registered Member

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    Colin,
    Pagefile Error:
    I had the same problems with the pagefile error, but I was using Ghost2003. Symantec has a page that may be relevant, although of course the programs are functionally different.
    Error: "Pagefile.sys is too small or does not exist" when starting the computer

    External USB Drives
    Did you ever solve this problem?
    I also had the same problem with my external USB drive using Ghost, and I haven't yet solved it. It may just be that I have it attached to a USB hub, which will prevent the drive from being found if using Ghost, but I haven't had time to get back to it.

    Again, Symantec has a page about this type of problem - it may be helpful if only for a some additional troubleshooting ideas.
    Symantec: How to troubleshoot USB connection problems

    Because of both of these errors, and many other problems using Ghost, I am considering on switching to True Image. So I'd like to make sure I won't have the same problems.

    Kent
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2005
  18. rharris270

    rharris270 Guest

    My own experience with TI8 s that it recognizes all USB and firewire drives that I have attached to the PC. Ditto for three friends with TI8.

    Question 1: When you made the bootable CD, did you choose the option to include all drivers? This is phrased something like "complete". Avoid the smaller customized bootdisk. Size is an issue only if you are making a multiple floppy disk boot set, not for a bootable CD.

    Querstion 2: When you boot from the CD, do you attach the USB drive, then boot, or do you attempt to hot-swap the USB drive? In my successes with TI8 I have always plugged in the USB drive first, then used the bootable CD.
     
  19. Colin D

    Colin D Registered Member

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    Yes, I made a CD emergency disk with the complete option. If I boot with the USB drive connected, the Acronis boot sequence hangs after the splash screen blanks, and before the Acronis logo appears at top left. If I boot without the USB drive connected, the boot up goes normally, and I can connect the USB drive when boot up is completed. But the system will not recognize the USB connection. It sees all the drives in the system as outlined in my first post, but does not see the USB drive.

    At present, I have a backup on DVD media, but I would like to have it on the USB drive. Actually, I have an image backup on the USB drive, but I cannot access it under emergency conditions. Very frustrating.

    BTW, I have tried plugging the USB cable into all of the six ports in the computer, and none work. There is no hub involved, and the USB drive has its own power. o_O
     
  20. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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  21. bobbyjak

    bobbyjak Registered Member

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    I had the same problem..Solved it by unplugging SanDisk USB media reader or making sure it had media in it before booting from TI rescue cd..Works like a charm..It probably is some other usb device causing your problem..If you have more than 1 usb port on your system, they are all connected thru an
    internal hub..

    Hope this helps
     
  22. Kbarb

    Kbarb Registered Member

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    Colin,
    It turned out in my case, using Ghost, that just having a USB hub connected at all stalled Ghost from loading. It doesn't really sound like this is your problem but I wanted to mention it because my external USB drive was always connected directly to a mobo usb port, but just having a USB hub connected to another port made the program stall. After it found the external drive it appeared to look for other devices, and when it found the hub it stalled. When I removed the hub everything proceeded correctly.

    Edit: To be more precise, connected to the hub are a printer, and a modem I never disconnected. So I can't say definatively whether it's the hub itself, the printer or the modem device that caused Ghost to hang, but the culprit(s) are one or more of them.

    Anyway, I sent you a private message, just giving you my email address in case you come up with a solution.
    I guess I could put it here - keohXXXXatXXXXhotmailXXXX.com (remove X's)
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2005
  23. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Not sure whether it's to late but, if anyone is still interested, here's the link to the <Dan Goodall article>.

    Regards
     
  24. Colin D

    Colin D Registered Member

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    Hello all,
    Gee, a lot of replies in this thread!

    To answer the most recent few: There is no hub at all connected to a usb port, nor is there a card reader. I have a Sandisk card reader, but that is plugged in only when I wish to read a CF card.

    Connected items are a Brother HL-5040 laser printer, a HP scanner, and a Canon i9950 A3 inkjet printer. Normally the Brother and the Canon printers are turned off when the computer boots. The scanner (HP5200C) is live all the time.

    The usb drive is a Vosonic X's drive, with its own booting software. Its main use is downloading CF cards from my camera, as it has card slots and software that does this. It has its own internal battery, but when connected via usb to the computer, its external power supply is connected as well.

    Just to eliminate the drive, I just thought I will try booting Windows with it connected. I'll do that now, and report.

    Colin.
     
  25. Colin D

    Colin D Registered Member

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    Ok, done that. The Vosonic's built-in screen shows 'usb mode' within a second of turning the computer on, so the bios is recognizing the drive. Booting in Windows proceeds normally, and the usb icon appears with the desktop coming to life.

    Booting from the Acronis rescue CD, the Acronis full screen logo comes up for a few seconds, then goes black, and that's it. After a minute or so, the CD drive finally stops. and the system is dead.

    I'll get the required file to Acronis as requested, and see what happens.

    Colin.
     
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