TOR vs. JonDO or another secure and anonymous Service

Discussion in 'privacy technology' started by neroman, Nov 4, 2013.

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  1. neroman

    neroman Registered Member

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    Which is the Highest secure and anonymous service right now?

    please advice!
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  2. DesuMaiden

    DesuMaiden Registered Member

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    Definitely Tor is much more secure and anonymous than JonDo.JonDo has backdoors. Tor does not. Tor is much more anonymous and secure. JonDo is useless.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2013
  3. TheCatMan

    TheCatMan Registered Member

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    But JonDo has a cool kungfu type name, forced to delete my iso now otherwise looked good.
     
  4. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    JonDo is somewhat like Tor in design.

    The main defects are: 1) it's smaller; 2) it's less open, with more central control; and 3) premium service isn't free.

    JonDo does argue that it's safer, because all nodes can be trusted.

    But that also makes it easier to force all nodes to cooperate in owning an "evil" user.
     
  5. Sabrina75

    Sabrina75 Registered Member

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    North Americans seem to be used to prefer US anonymity tools (sorry). In fact, I think that things can be more complex and funny than just choosing between Tor, Jondo and VPNs. It depends if you are a black hat and/or a criminal, or just someone that just wants to be seriously anonymous for personnal (but legal) reasons. Answering this question is somewhere anwsering the previous. Tor alone is efficient, but privacy risky (+ possibilities of TBB exploits by different ways).

    I also think that Jondo is much more safer, for several reasons (and I have nothing to do with them). But I am just a single individual who wants to hide what I am doing in the network for the only reason that I just want to hide what I am doing in the network.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
  6. BoerenkoolMetWorst

    BoerenkoolMetWorst Registered Member

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  7. febainy

    febainy Registered Member

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    Although there was a serious leak for the TBB in 7.4.2014, Jondo clams that they hadn't effect by the openssl bug.

    But who knows Jondo servers if operates with the government? If you ask them I sure they will say No.

    A lot of famous men said NO if anyone asked them about the NSA, or the surveilance at the beginning of the scandal, but later they are all shut up.
     
  8. febainy

    febainy Registered Member

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    Although there was a serious leak for the TBB in 7.4.2014, Jondo clams that they hadn't effect by the openssl bug. For this part, Jondo is safe.

    But who knows Jondo servers if they all operates with the government? If you ask them I sure they will say No.

    A lot of famous men said NO if anyone asked them about the NSA, or the surveilance at the beginning of the scandal, but later they are all shut up.
     
  9. Sabrina75

    Sabrina75 Registered Member

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    Wow, thanks for the file. It is very interesting !

    What I meant before is that your anonymity/privacy/safety also depend on your own Internet use. As far as I studied, if someone is planning / doing illegal uses... Good luck, (s)he'll need it ! There are too many vulnerabilities and tricks to "exploit" what has to be exploited. The "attack surface", as they call it, is just infinite. To avoid going in the wrong places is surely one good step to keep anonymous, private and secure, like in the real world. Just my humble thoughts !

    Jondo can be a very interesting tool, and it could be even better if there would be a really more important users base. A shame it is a little bit expensive for full account. Moreover, for Linux users, you already get an apparmor profile to contain your Jondo's Firefox browser and to reduce possibility of zero-day exploit, and you can also expect all that kinds of attacks that are described everywhere about Tor exit nodes to be harder, fully illegal, if not impossible from a Jondo exit mix server. About a possibility of collaboration of JonDonym with any government, I think the answer can be find in several parts on their website (and it is harder to lie "between the lines").

    I also think that Jondo users are possibly easier to "desanonymize" than Tor users because of the smaller users base (with end-to-end analysis), but to get what ? ;) Once again, I have nothing to do with them, but I think this tool deserves to be more known.

    But it is maybe all a question of "our own threat model" ?!
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
  10. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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  11. LockBox

    LockBox Registered Member

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    Not true. This whole thing got started when JAP (JonDo) was served a warrant back around 2004 or so by the German BKA to force the original "Dresden Mix" to log IP addresses that were accessing a child porn site. They did so, but made a clear note in the source code that alerted everybody as to what was up. This was the first time that a service like JAP used source code to alert users without violating the law. JAP and the old An.On project at the university were actually heroes. (Not that were protecting CP traders, but that they were protecting the privacy of ALL users). The source code squeal was revealed shortly after its insertion. As time went on, all people remembered was their following the law via the warrant, but not the almost-illegal shout out in the code. JonDo is a solid service with mix op's in several countries in order to complicate legal action. I've dealt with them before and I can tell you they are good people.
     
  12. Sabrina75

    Sabrina75 Registered Member

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    That's one of the points that I really (really) appreciated in their policy : If someone uses JonDonym for criminal purposes, then all mix servers and operators can get the necessary warrants to try to uncover him. This has, at least, 3 consequences : providing real anonymity, privacy and safety for non-criminal Internet uses, dissuading to use JonDo for criminal purposes, and showing itself as a free, clean and serious network. This ethical model is unfortunately not the one we can find with the Tor network.

    We just have to remember the recently worldwide blackshades "clean-up".
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
  13. J_L

    J_L Registered Member

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    Sorry, but I don't want to be governed by subjective ethics and imperfect laws. How much better is it really from the clearnet if that is the case?
     
  14. Sabrina75

    Sabrina75 Registered Member

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    It is a point of view, narrow minded if I can borrow your own freedom of speech, but a respectable point of view, anyway. You are free to do what you want and you know that, you are even free to commit criminal actions (Minority report is still a fiction), and then to eventually get caught. The Jondo threat model is so flexible that you can watch all your favorite adults or animals porns twice an hour or downloading such horrible stuff as executions clips from some highly democratic countries, and even spend time in very excentric Internet then real world places, you won't be considered as criminal and law enforcements will surely not waste their time with peoples like you. I spoke about true and severe crimicals that need to organise international actions and provide international warants for all mixes and operators countries (you really did not get that ?). That's absolutly not the same thing.

    Otherwise, I personally do not care about people sickness or particularities* (*no judgement here), they are as free as I am, as far as they keep respectful of the others. I hope these further information would make things more clear.

    You still have Tor anyway, advantages / disadvantages has been partially discussed above.

    About Jondo, I volontary forget to add that you can pay anonymously but It would still not prevent you from being caught (if possible) for a high gravity criminal action. On the other side, you don't have dumb peoples. I worked more than a decade ago with a famous ukrainian cybercriminal (I didn't know it at that time), he is in jail in the US since 2003 after being extraded from Cyprus and he gets 18 more years as a "full american resident" lately. It is a true story. I just remember he was a really, really smart guy with a powerful peoples network.

    And here is my last post.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2014
  15. febainy

    febainy Registered Member

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    Anonymous is to anybody including the criminal, terrorists
     
  16. Sabrina75

    Sabrina75 Registered Member

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    Basically, and as your "friend" above, you have understood nothing !

    I was affraid to have this to conclude, but there are too much exemples here and everywhere else : The smartest you are, the most information you will learn, the most anonymous and secure you will be. This are NO anonymity method, each one its own. The equation is may be as simple as this. All technical data are available everywhere and even with this, we are still reading things like this. Something like 80% of the Tor users are sending some personal data "in clear text" through Tor exit nodes. Are you one of those brilliants 20% of not ? Anonymous for everyone (criminal inside) ?

    If just going in and out of the Tor network is what we can call anonymity... OK. Law enforcements are surely happy with this !
     
  17. febainy

    febainy Registered Member

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    I'm not english so I'm not feel ashamed of what you are talking about. I know Snowden document say the US government has a big problem with tails and tor, the Tor Exit node knowing my content which I have send doesn't destroy the anonymity, my target is not leaking my IP address, which Tor designed for. Except NSA install surveillence device in my computer and on other things that I have no idea, but I'm not the criminal, I think there is no idea to identify a "smart" internet criminal except surveilllance the internet but it will be bad to the good people like me, may be I am a good people
     
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