Too much reformatting

I have no issue with bleepingcomputers.com !

Say, one visits a forum and asks for help.
The user receives advice about the cleaning process. Possibly with someone looking over his shoulder.

During the cleaning process, possibly with someone looking over his shoulder, the user learns about the malware present on the computer. If it's not rogue security software, how is this a learning experience ? I have used many antimalware programs in the past for both real-time and on-demand scanning, and I learned little from it. Except that my security software didn't perform as well as I wanted.
If one finds infections one usually doesn't know where they came from.

So, how is this a learning process ? There are a lot of tools for on-demand scans. In most cases, I didn't learn where the infections came from.
If you are suggesting that noticing the presence of malware is a learning experience, fine, you can do that. But how is that an argument against wiping and reformatting ?

Btw, it´s a long time since I got an infection.

 

Didn't you just answer your own question? Why were you seeking advice in the first place? I am guessing because your computer was having problems. Had you simply reformatted, you would not have learned there was malware present on the computer, and more importantly, that you needed to beef up your security, or be more diligent in your safe computing practices.

I also note that most experts, at least on the 3 main forums where I am on staff, we don't just say, "do this and goodbye". If the problem was preventable, we typically point the OP towards a sticky or article that shows them how to shore up defenses, and activities to avoid, to prevent the problem from recurring.

Because as previously noted, there are many fine anti-malware tools out there that do an excellent job of cleaning out infections, without destroying data, user profiles/configurations, downloaded applications, updates, and patches.

If you are suggesting that these anti-malware programs are inadequate, then I would have to disagree. There are always exceptions, but by and large, most infections can be removed safely, and any damage done can be repaired without resorting to reformatting and total reinstall.

And I am not against reformatting. I am just against reformatting before exhausting other possibilities first. Not just because it is tossing in the towel, but, as mentioned often, it sets the computer back months, if not years in patches and critical updates, lost data, yadda, yadda - unless you have a current image or backup to recover from. But then you would not be a typical home user.

 

Good to know you're not opposed to a reformat!

I don't see your point though. Reformatting doesn't set the computer back months or years. You reformat and install the OS, you run Win updates and within an hour or so, you're back in business, fully up to date. So you've lost nothing there. As for data, you back up what data you don't want to lose to another source (HD, CD, DVD, etc), then restore the data after the reformat. What else is there? Install your apps again, and you're done. I can reformat and reinstall fully updated and be done in Vista in 3 hours or less. I don't think that's too terrible.

I know you prefer to exhaust all other possibilities first, but really, the process of reformatting isn't all that ugly. I prefer it.

You asked earlier (above somewhere) what one learns from a reformat. Nothing really. I don't remember saying one DID learn anything from a reformat. Learning is something that takes place when anyone uses a PC. I don't know where the whole learning thing was or is going anyway.

You also kept mentioning clients and IT Pro's and so on. I don't think that's what this thread was originally about either. I'm talking from personal home experience, not as any IT professional or anything like that.

Anyway, more fuel for the fire.....

 

It sure can! For example, I built this machine in Sept 2002, almost 8 years ago. The OEM XP install disk came with SP1. If I were to reformat and reinstall, it would set my machine back years until I could get back up to SP3, then all the critical updates since SP3. I would have to download and install my graphics drivers again. I use MS Office 2003 so I would have to reinstall Office, then download and install the dozens of updates that have been released since the disks were made. I would lose and have to download and reinstall my firewall, my AV and my AS.

I would lose my graphics drivers. My multifunction printer device drivers would have to be reinstalled so I could print, scan, and fax through it.

When you format, unless you had the foresight to download all your security programs ahead of time and have them handy, you will have to connect to a network and immediately expose your unsecured, vulnerable computer to badguys while you are surfing around fetching your FW, AS, AV, AM, spam blocker, IE8/FF, etc. That is not good.

Yeah right. Perhaps with Windows in an "out-of-the-box" default condition, with nothing else installed.

I never said it was. It is after the format, returning the computer back to it's fully functional condition, WITH all previous programs installed and configured as desired that gets ugly, and can take a lot longer than 3 hours to get it tweaked just right.

in post #26, you said, in response to my no lessons learn comment,

Sure. Because everyone has a current copy of all their data, right?

 

Well, I don't think we're making any headway here Bill. You're not convincing me, and I'm not convincing you.

I don't know if you're on dial-up or DSL or something slow, but on cable I can install any OS, XP, Vista x64, Win 7, you name it, fully update it, and also install MS Office 2007 which I own, as well as flash, java, drivers of all sorts, and a handful of apps, all in about 3 hours. I don't know what slows this down on your end. XP tends to be quickest actually. So we just have different experiences there. Vista is probably slowest. In fact, I just did all of the above a few days ago, installed a new Vista x64 setup with everything in about 3 hours. Anyway, not much else I can say there.

Your comment about data makes no sense to me either. You said:

"Sure. Because everyone has a current copy of all their data, right?"

Yes, doesn't everyone? I'm talking about any and all "data" on the local HD right before you're about to reformat. Just copy it all off to another source. MP3's, videos, documents, pictures, whatever is on there. Move it off and restore it after the reformat. What are you thinking about??

As for your point about the PC being exposed to the internet while you're installing and adding drivers etc, a cheap NAT router, which I have used now for 5 years, takes care of that problem completely. And for only $50 or so. No worries..

I think we are coming from different places so to speak. So perhaps our experiences are somewhat different.

But I'll still take my reformat, or even an image restore, over the alternative any day...

 

I have all my drivers and programs on a separate HD. I keep them updated when newer versions come out. Whenever I reinstall it only takes me a few hours to get everything up and running. I don't have to download anything except win updates. I have Office 07 with sp2 slipstreamed. My Vista install disk comes with sp1, sp2 doesn't take long to install. Once I have office and my security programs and a few other apps installed, then I just do the rest of my programs a little bit at a time over the following days.

 

I give up ...

But not because I agree with you.

 

Well, I am convinced and I will have to agree with Bill Bright, because I am on dial up.

P.S. I have never done a reformat, and I have owned two computers, one was a gift which had windows 95 and then updated to XP Pro. The current one was custom made and I installed the OS myself. So, reformatting will always be a last resort.... But, then again, I am not you typical user, home or otherwise.

 

Yeah, if I was on dial-up I'd definitely have a different view of it. That would be a major undertaking downloading 300+mb of Win updates, and another couple hundred for MS Office.

I know many people who have run the same installed OS for 5 years or more also, and have never reformatted. That's great if you can keep it clean and responsive without issues.

 

I have learned a lot over the last nine years...e.g.how to go into the registry and find remnants of programs still remaining after their so called uninstall. I don't use the inbuilt System Restore. I prefer to use ERUNT, which I only use as a last resort, if I have (stupidly) dug myself into a hole. I have my data separate to the OS. Best of all on my current computer I have FD-ISR.

 

Except for building test systems, I view reformatting as a last resort. So far, I haven't resorted to reformatting to clean up a malware infection or to fix corrupted system files. On one occasion, I would have but the owner couldn't find the disks, so I fought with it for several days instead.

Should the need arise, I kept copies of all the patches and Windows updates, along with all of the drivers and their updates. The only way I can see ever needing them is if the external drive that holds the backups fails at the same time as my internal drives and the CD copies don't work either. There's just too much to install to completely restore an established system to get it back to where it was.

With the right setup and some common sense in its usage, it's entirely possible to keep an OS running at peak performance for many years. Except for updating a few apps, this one has barely changed in the last 4 years.

 

No, I'm on cable.

Maybe on your planet.

 

Peace Bill....

 

Good luck.

 

format c:


HKEY1952

 

Unformat C:

 

Active@ UNERASER DEMO (Complete Windows installation package) UNERASER-Demo-Setup.exe
Digatilly Signed = Friday, July 04, 2008 2:18:53 PM

Active@ UNERASER (Windows Console version) UNERASE.exe
Digatilly Signed = Monday, May 14, 2007 2:54:36 PM

Active@ UNERASER (localized file names plugin) unicode.exe
Not Digitally Signed

Active@ UNERASER Web Based Users Guide:
http://www.uneraser.com/manual.htm

Very interesting indeed.....

When deleted entries are found, the utility displays them by name and offers the user an opportunity to save whatever is recoverable to a new location.

In the case of partition damage, the job for the file recovery software is to analyze the surface of the HDD and retrieve clues around structure of the logical data in order to reconstruct
the partition or drive parameters (such as the first sector number, cluster size, file system type, etc.). As this process makes logical connections based on probability,
it creates an entity called a virtual drive. Without any kind of drive structure, no data can be retrieved.

.....yes very interesting indeed.....however.....can not undo the formating its self.

fdisk


HKEY1952

 

There are a couple unformat drive programs around, not to be confused with undelete type programs like Recuva from the makers of CCleaner. I think it is safe to say the odds of compete recovery is the same for all recovery programs, and are best if done immediately after the event, in this case a format, and quickly drop to nil as the drive is used and new files get written.

 

Ctrl + Alt + Delete /End Task


HKEY1952

 

I've had this XP machine for 5 1/2 years, it's never been reformatted and it runs faster than a vanilla XP. I've hacked the OS so much i dread the thought of reformatting and starting from scratch.

So, personally i prefer to fix any issues.