TI versus Vista's Image Backup?

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by malegala, Nov 28, 2006.

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  1. malegala

    malegala Registered Member

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    I have version 9 TI, and was unhappy with the upgrade policy (limiting it to 30 days when most software that I own is a one-year free upgrade policy). I am particularly unhappy because the implication of TI10 being Vista compatible is that TI-9 is not.

    However, it appears that windows vista will include a backup program that will also backup image of the hard drive, so you can fully recover from any disaster.

    Given all the reported problems on this forum with TI, I look forward to trying Microsoft's image back up solution.

    Has anyone tried the beta version and if so, any thoughts?
     
  2. jeremyotten

    jeremyotten Registered Member

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    Yes I have tried:

    Its very very slow
    Recovery is also slow

    Im staying with TrueImage. Big Time!
     
  3. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    You can up grade older versions of TI at any time to the latest version at the reduced upgrade price which is a saving on the full purchase cost.

    Any subsequent new builds as distinct from versions can be downloaded for free till a new Version is released. This seems to be on an annual basis.

    I suppose you are really complaining about the free upgrade from one version to the next being only avaiable for thirty days. Well it is a fact of life that the line has been drawn there by Acronis and their policy has been consistent for several years.


    Xpilot
     
  4. shieber

    shieber Registered Member

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    Yep, not likely to find any probs with MS stuff, especially in a version x.0 ;-)

    Good luck,

    :D
     
  5. presrc

    presrc Registered Member

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    I think there are two major questions with TI and Vista.
    1. Will TI run on Vista?
    2. Will Vista Image Backup replace TI?

    Number 2 is destined to be a major issue on this forum and I think we should take it seriously. It would be of great interest to me and probably others to know how the two compare. Actual test data would be great.
     
  6. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    See post No. 2 above.

    Has Vista actually been released yet ? Even if it has it is still very early days for a body of opinion to have built up.
    In any case it will still be different strokes for different folkes.
    Remember there is always a trial version of TI so you can check it out for yourself if you have got Vista on board.


    Xpilot
     
  7. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    1. Yes
    2. No not in the short term. In future they will swallow it up as they did with disk compression programs, wordperfect, inbuilt file compression programs, all the wonderful borland compilers. Corels Paradox database systems, Supercalc spreadsheet application and others.

    I read about 15 years ago that they wanted to make Word (and what has now become Office) part of the OS - thus nudging lots of competitors aside. Because of the IE jurisdiction in 1995 this has not happened and I think it suits them as around 50% of their revenue apparently comes from MS office - which is huge.

    If MS can get away with it they will soak up everything. They seem to be giving Antivirus and Partition Management sysytems a wide berth and always have done for some reason. I think their venture in Disk imaging is speculative and currently will be very immature compared with what Acronis have developed since 2002 when they released True Image Deluxe V1.0.

    Time will tell I guess.

    F.
     
  8. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    I can never understand why Microsoft have been unable (or unwilling) to incorporate so many things that are done so well by third parties. As an operating system I have no problem with Xp and will no doubt find Vista an improvement but then I tend to use other companies for defragmentation, virus checking, surfing, scanning, backing up ........ and so on. In other words many MS features are free and work quite well but it is often best to use a competitors product.

    As to the question of Vista replacing TI - well it could be done but I have my doubts. The company that brought you system restore has a long way to go to replace TI.
     
  9. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    Hard reason is they get nailed with lawsuits of various flavors concerning monopolies, anti-trust or whatever. Soft reason is that they do provide a basic tool and let the others provide a fancier one, thus sharing the wealth. To be honest, I think MS would like to be the sole source for everything it figures it can make a buck at.
     
  10. mustang

    mustang Developer

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    Microsoft has announced the release date of Vista will be January 30,2007. The final version was released to MSDN subscribers on November 16, 2006.

    I've installed the Ultimate version which includes Windows Media Center. The only app installed is ATI10 Home for testing purposes. Before any restores were done, it used 9.6 GB of space on the C: according to the properties in Windows.

    I did backups and recoveries with both ATI10 and Microsoft Windows Backup (MWB). Following are the results:

    ATI10
    Full disk backup run in Windows (Normal Comp.)----4 min 12 sec
    Size of backup on second internal HDD-------------3.88 GB
    Boot Linux Recovery CD & start backup------------1 min 5 sec
    Restore full disk image----------------------------5 min 30 sec
    Total restore time--------------------------------6 min 35 sec
    Space used on C: after restore--------------------9.21 GB


    MWB
    Full disk backup run in Windows (No Comp. options)--4 min 33 sec
    Size of backup on second internal HDD--------------5.56 GB
    Boot Windows installation DVD & start backup------- 2 min 45 sec
    Restore full disk image------------------------------2 min 35 sec
    Total restore time----------------------------------5 min 20 sec
    Space used on C: after restore---------------------10.0 GB


    It would be interesting to see how the compression results and restore times would be affected by running similar tests on a 100 GB system with many mp3's stored.

    There was one interesting thing to note. On first boot after the ATI10 restore, I got the screen that said Windows did not shut down properly as if I had pressed the F8 key. I chose "Start Windows Normally" and all was well. The first boot after the MWB restore was normal.
     
  11. malegala

    malegala Registered Member

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    Including software as part of Windows to restore a hard drive and programs seems to be long over due.

    I have mixed feelings about Microsoft and have tried to use alternative programs (such as open office).

    However, consistent reporting of problems with TI causes me great concern.

    Since they have lost me as a future customer due to their horrible upgrade policy, I hope they update T9 to be vista compatible, because I am not sure I would trust either Microsoft or Acronis backup to work when I needed it.

    On the other hand, the last time I lost data because of Microsoft was when they introduced drive space in Windows 95 I believe. I lost about a months worth of work and it made me a true believer in regular backup strategies.

    I've recently converted to using mirroring software as my primary backup, to backup my data files. The one time I had a computer crash, my TI backup did not work.

    Of course, if it works for someone only once, it more than pays for itself.

    But the constant complaints on this forum of corrupted files and backups that do not work at all have made me very leery of the product.

    I would be cautious using Microsoft's backup, although it is unlikely they developed it since their older backup program was based on the Veritas backup software.

    There could be a niche for Acronis since Microsoft rarely includes bells and whistles in its basic software (for example, its fax software does not print out a confirmation sheet when you send a fax). I think Acronis is less likely to succeed in the long run if they take their customers for granted.

    I was very unhappy with the 30 day upgrade policy, but more unhappy when Acrnois try to explain it away by claiming this was an industry-standard. Most of the software I have purchased provides upgrades for a year or more when new versions come out.

    So, Acronis releases a new version which they advertised as this to compatible, implying the old version is not, ignore its customer base is a horrible upgrade policy, at the same time that Microsoft is finally including what it should have included years ago, software to save the image of the entire hard drive.

    Although the time comparisons between the two products are very interesting, there is hope that the Microsoft product will be less buggy and more reliable because it probably contains far fewer bells and whistles.

    But since I have software that backs up my data and I only use TI to create an image in case of disaster, I am at least hoping Microsoft has provided a backup solution that will bring reliability to an area of software where the main players such as TI and Ghost elicit a large number of complaints from users.
     
  12. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    I understand that Acronis is enjoying enourmous growth at the moment. It would not surprise me if there comes a point when they sell out, and probably to Microsoft. So we will be able to have our cake and eat it. Use the inbuilt OS imaging software, and use Acronis' software. One and the same.

    There is another angle on this which I think Roxio got involved in, where they sold cut down bits of the underlying CD writing engine for XP. The business model still allows them to offer added value by selling their Easy Media Creator product.

    Of course it could be that the underlying cutdown imaging engine used in Vista has been licensed from Acronis all along :rolleyes:

    F.
     
  13. shieber

    shieber Registered Member

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    A one-year free-upgrade policy would be unreasonable for software such as the Norton stuff and ATI and lots of others that are on essentially an annual schedule for upgrade.

    It works better for stuff that is upgraded less frequently than annually, like complex suites, OSes, etc.

    sh
     
  14. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Hello again Malegala,

    I must be missing something here, I have not come across any software sellers or manufacturers who will allow a FREE upgrade to the next generation of their software for periods up to a year after the new software is on sale. Are you saying that if I had bought XP eleven months ago I could get a free upgrade to Vista next month ?
    One may think 30 day is a bit short but it is the limit that Acronis have stuck to consistently.

    Free bug fixes and minor improvements are a different issue entirely. These are free for Acronis products and many others.


    Xpilot
     
  15. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    I tend to agree with you Xpilot . I do know I wouldn't be real happy if I bought it just outside the 30 day limit but I don't see it as being totally unreasonable for a product in the TI price range.

    BTW, the biggest problem that DriveSpace had when introduced was bad RAM in the PCs. This is what precipitated the more in-depth power-on RAM testing with what I believe was called OSR2 release of 95.
     
  16. malegala

    malegala Registered Member

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    Buyers know that MS is releasing an update well in advance and they can choose to buy the old version or not.

    There are a number of software packages with extended free upgrades (VTRAIN 2 years, Genie Back up, 1 year, Macro Toolworks (2 years and counting). I upgraded Backup MyPC for free from version 4.85 to Version 6.

    The only software I buy with an annual payment is tax software or virus software.

    While you may not be dissatisfied, Acronis cannot afford to alienate customers with an unusually short upgrade path. It has alienated me and I for one look forward to saying goodbye to them when I get Vista installed.
     
  17. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    At $29.99 for an upgrade to ATI 10 Home I would say they are almost giving it away. many people are still quite happily using ATI 9 or 8 or even 7. ATI 6 will still work but is a bit slow. There is now reason to be forced into an upgrade every year - so paying an extra $29.99 every couple of years doesn't seem too expensive to me for what is probably the most important program that anyone can own.
     
  18. bVolk

    bVolk Registered Member

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    I agree, considerig that TI takes care that all the other programs will keep running.
     
  19. malegala

    malegala Registered Member

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    The price is not the issue. They could charge more or less for their product. Paying an extra $30 for a program six weeks after I bought it is part of the problem.

    Backup software does not change technology very often, if at all. They may at some bells and whistles, improve the speed, but there really is very little difference between version 10 and version 9.

    It appears from the posts in this forum, that all versions have substantial reliability problems.


    I do not use TI for my primary backup. For that I use vice versa, a great backup program that does mirroring, so my data is constantly being backed up.

    However, should I have a computer crash, it would save a lot of time to be able to restore my computer without having to reinstall all my programs. It seems like it is somewhat of a crapshoot as to whether TI will work.

    before I bought it, I did try it out on an older computer, and it restored the drive. A day or two after I bought it my computer crashed with an error message that one of my Windows operating system files was missing, but I was unable to boot from the CD TI9 had created.

    Acronis' upgrade policy shows little customer regard, especially in light of the upcoming Vista operating system that includes an imaging program.

    There are a number of programs I have that work very well, have reasonable upgrade policies, and make me want to remain a customer into the future (for example, I use a great keyboard macro program called macro tool works, which so far has allowed free version upgrades for the past couple of years).

    In one report in this thread regarding the Vista image program seems to compare favorably with TI. Up till now, there have not been many image programs available. I have read nothing but horrible problems with Norton products and I would not use Norton ghost if you paid me. I was happy to find the TI program, but very unhappy when I found out the program I purchased on August 28 would not be upgraded to their next version.
     
  20. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    On one hand you seem to be playing down the difference between v9 and v10, and on the other you seem really pissed off that you can't have v10. I'm not sure how you reconcile that.

    If you bought a new car last year, and this year a revamped version of the same car was released would you really be expecting a cheap upgrade path?

    You bought V9 based on its features and functions as advertised at the time. If they don't work you can get your money back. I agree that Acronis should not suddenly stop supporting a product which carries significant bugs or is unfinished, but as far as I can see this is a long way from reality.

    30 days probably isn't a lot, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere. Some argue that Acronis should be more public about their chalked release dates, and I have some sympathy with that view. However the reality is that they have released a new version every year since V1 in 2002, and no doubt they will continue to try to do so.

    The lesson: Don't buy a True Image product in the second half of the year.

    F.
     
  21. bonsai63

    bonsai63 Registered Member

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    If ATI 9.0 won't work on Vista and it costs you an extra $30 or even $50 to ensure that your Vista OS based computer is protected, then I think that is CHEAP. If you are going to be upgrading to Vista you are going to be spending cash for the OS and probably for a completely new computer, too. If you can't afford $30 for quality backup software to protect it, I don't really know what to tell you. If you like the product, just pay for the upgrade (assuming you even need to do that-just because 10.0 says it is Vista compatible does not mean 9.0 might not also work just fine-it's probably a question of drivers) and keep rolling.
     
  22. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    Since this thread is basically about Vista and some Acronis policy I have moved it to the appropriate forum section.
     
  23. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Hello,

    By 30-days policy do you mean that you have a only 30-day window to use the upgrade offer for your existing license? Is that it?

    I think you should not upgrade and buy a completely new license for several reasons:

    You will retain an old version that will work well with older Windowses.
    You will buy a new one that you can place on another comp, and have good compatibility with newer Windowses.

    BTW, does anyone know what's the transfer policy? How many reformats, etc. I can ask in the official forum, just a quick question if anyone has an answer.

    Mrk
     
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