TI 9.0 Build 3666 Direct to DVD Imaging - Still Some Problems

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by Menorcaman, Jun 25, 2006.

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  1. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hi all,

    Firstly, as has been reported elsewhere, after installing Build 3666 over a previous build, running TI results in the error message shown in Screenshot 1 (a reboot makes no difference). I believe this glitch may only be applicable to "upgrade" versions of the program. An uninstall followed by a reinstall (which includes entering the serial numbers for your current version and previous version) overcomes the the problem.

    Secondly, if you have InCD installed, you must set its "Autoformat on inserting blank disk" option to "Do nothing" otherwise it will interfere with TI's direct to DVD imaging capability. This could well be the case for other makes of UDF packet writing software.

    O.K. Having now validated TI Build 3666's direct to DVD imaging capability using DVD+RW, DVD+R, DVD-RW and DVD-R media, I can report that the following problems still remain:

    Imaging Direct to Nero Erased DVD+RW Media (Verbatim 4x Certified)

    Windows Mode

    1. Selecting a Nero erased blank DVD+RW disk as the Backup Achive location results in the "Warning!" message shown in Screenshot 2. Need to click O.K. to continue.

    2. Setting the backup option to Validate the image after creating a two-DVD archive result in an endless loop of disk changes. After Volume #2 has been validated, TI asks for for Volume #1 as per Screenshot 3. Inserting Volume #1 and clicking "Retry" results in the error message shown in Screenshot 4 (trying the old trick of leaving the recorder's drawer open merely results in a message that the recorder isn't ready). The only way out of the loop is to select "Cancel". However, the image can subsequently be successfully validated as a separate activity via the Validate Backup Archive Wizard.

    Linux Rescue Environment

    1. Same problem as #2 above when validating as part of the image creation task.

    Imaging Direct to DVD+R Media (Verbatim 16x Certified)

    Windows Mode and Linux Rescue Environment

    1. Same problem as #2 above when validating as part of the image creation task.

    Imaging Direct to Nero Erased DVD-RW Media (TDK 2x Certified)

    Windows Mode and Linux Rescue Environment

    1. Same problem as #2 above when validating as part of the image creation task.


    Imaging Direct to DVD-R Media (Verbatim 16x Certified)

    Windows Mode and Linux Rescue Environment

    1. Same problem as #2 above when validating as part of the image creation task.

    CONCLUSION

    The above checks were carried out using a combination of Disk/Partition imaging, Files & Folders imaging and including/excluding the Acronis Media Components.

    Whilst Build 3666 appears to have overcome the format problems of Nero (and certain other burning software) erased DVD+/-RWs and the incorrect spanning of DVD-R media, the warning message for Nero erased DVD+RW shown in screenshot 2 is the same as for the previous build. In addition, there is a now new problem when validating an image as part of the image creation task that affects all types of DVD media.

    I would also recommend NOT restoring files or folders from a spanned Disk/Partition image due to the mind-numbing number of disk changes required to create the restorable directory tree.

    Regards
     

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    Last edited: Jun 28, 2006
  2. MKairys

    MKairys Registered Member

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    Thank you so much for your thorough testing and clear, concise reporting!

    I only wish the people who are (presumably) paid to test the product would take the care you do (sorry, couldn't resist).
     
  3. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    We all appreciate your thoroughness on this and many other issues.

    Who could resist? We all are frustrated by incompletely tested releases that waste so much of our time.
     
  4. hectorsm

    hectorsm Registered Member

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    Thanks Menorcaman. It's very helpfull to know what kind of issues we (DVD users) are going to run into with this new build.

    I do wish Acronis would at least reward you for the time you spent identifying these program bugs.
     
  5. Carver

    Carver Registered Member

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    I do wish Acronis would work on their testing before releasing a new build. As a new user it is extreamly distressing to find such a lack of quality control.
     
  6. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Not forgetting MenorcaWoman who has to bear with his long absences at his computer !!

    Xpilot
     
  7. Christopher_NC

    Christopher_NC Registered Member

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    As a new user still trying to get my PC configuration sorted out...I'm a big fan of Menorcaman. Thanks for all your testing, and assistance throughout these forums.

    Since Acronis Support often replies to those who are having difficulties to be sure to first install the latest version of TI, I followed that advice, and upgraded from 3633 to 3666, and did uninstall then reinstall. Having the edit problems reported, among others.

    Should I return to build 3633, until the bugs get ironed out? Build 3633 did allow me to schedule backups and edit them, create and validate images on DVD+R, and even worked in Boot Mode writing and validating Images to an external USB drive that wouldn't validate if written from TI in Windows XP.

    If so, what is the process for resolving bugs in a new build? Does build 3666 get revised, and still called 3666? Or, do we wait for the next build to resolve bugs in this release?

    Now, if I can just figure out how to configure...
     
  8. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    I am useing 3666 and just did a full disc backup to DVD about ten minutes ago and it worked perfectly. It burned four DVDs in 55 minutes. I can't ask for much more than that.
     
  9. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hi bigC,

    What type of media did you use and did you try it with the backup option set to validate the image as part of the image creation task? The only way I could successfully validate a spanned image was as a separate activity via the Backup Archive Validation Wizard and even that took approx 90mins for a two-disk set.

    Regards
     
  10. hectorsm

    hectorsm Registered Member

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    55 min? My guess is that you were using DVD+R or DVD-R media. It took me close to 2 hours to burn 4 DVDs into DVD+RW media with build 3633. I will try with build 3666 to see if there is any improvement in speed.
     
  11. bigc73542

    bigc73542 Retired Moderator

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    I was useing Verbatim DVD+R and here is the type of burner. And yes I had it validate. And to be very truthful, this comp does everything fast.
     

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  12. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hi again BigC,

    Hmm, that's very interesting. As you can see from my first Post, no matter what type of media I used, I always ended up in a disk swap loop if the backup option had been set to validate concurrent with image creation, either from within Widows or Linux based rescue environment. Validating the two-disk spanned images separately via the Backup Archive Validation Wizard was never a problem (other than it took a heck of a long time :p).

    Perhaps some other users would be kind enough to check this out? Although, having said that, I would have no explanation for why this occurred on my setup and not others o_O.

    Regards
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2006
  13. jeremyotten

    jeremyotten Registered Member

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    Here are my results

    Made Acronis Single Click DVD's build 3666
    burned on a NEC DVD+/-RW Drive

    When I used a Acro Circile 8x DVD-R When booted I tells me there are no Images on the Disc.

    When I used a MMORE DVD+RW 4x When booted everything went OK!

    Both where just 1 DVD because everything fitted on 1 DVD

    Seems Acronis is getting picky. Or our drives are getting picky ;-)
     
  14. Christopher_NC

    Christopher_NC Registered Member

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    I ran 3 tests today with TI 9.3666 direct-to-DVD. Burned a 7.8 GB spanned archive to 2 Memorex 16x DVD+R, in Windows XP Pro, with Validation checked. Plextor PX-716A SATA DVD drive, from a recent internal SATA HD, both on the motherboard SATA ports, to rule out any conflicts with a PCI SATA controller card; no additional programs running.

    As I began the operation, TI reported "5 hours remaining."

    2 minutes later, the estimate was down to 1 hr 6 min. In 5 minutes, it said 22 minutes remaining, 16% complete. 8 minutes in, came Please insert next volume. 17 minutes in, it said 14 minutes remaining, 50% complete.

    Then, came the endless loop described so well by Menorcaman,

    Please insert the media marked volume 1

    TI did not say label this latest burned DVD as Volume 2. I did so anyway.

    I inserted Volume 1, Retry. This time, unlike during burn, the program did not auto-close the tray.

    E0004000B: The drive is not ready.

    So, I waited then manually closed the tray.

    E00040012: This is not the last volume of the backup archive.

    Yes, it should still be Volume 1, since I just inserted it. Retry.

    E00040012 This is not the last volume of the archive
    Press Retry to continue with Volume 1, or press Cancel to cancel.


    Continue what, with Volume 1? There is no progress indicator to say that Validation is going on.

    So, insert Volume 2. Close tray. Retry.

    Well, this loop goes on, and on, and on. On the last test, I did try the option of Retry, with Volume 1. Still nothing. Same errors.

    So, I cancelled the operation.

    Thought I'd try to Validate the Archive made this afternoon using TI in Windows. I began the Validate operation at 3:15 -- estimated time: 1 hour and 42 minutes. At 5:0O, I came back to see how things went.

    Archive Verification. Operation 1 of 1, Verifying backup archive.

    8 hours remaining


    Operation in progress 16%

    I cancelled the operation.

    Seems to me that it's burning too fast, and reading too slow. Any chance of user adjustable burn rates? Error correction?
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2006
  15. JMills

    JMills Registered Member

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    Hi all!

    I think I can shed some light on the auto-verification-after-backup issue.

    I recently made a 7 DVD+R full backup set using #3633 of Home version and tried the auto verify function. I too ran into the issue "insert last disk of set", "not the last disk, insert disk 1", ... After dragging on through it for 15 minutes, I canceled the operation and went buming through the Log file.
    There it was at the end of the log - "Cannot find file 'XPS Backup 06252006_.tib' ". That was the name of my backup fileset. Note that the base filename never exists without the set # suffix (a bit of trivia I learned from TI6).
     
  16. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello Menorcaman and everyone interested,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    We are very sorry for the delay with the response.

    Please note that the issue with the inability to use "auto-validation" option when backing up directly to several CDs or DVDs is known and will certainly be fixed in the future Acronis True Image builds. I'm afraid that the exact time frame for the fix to be implemented is not decided yet.

    As for the warning message the appears upon the attempt to save backup to Nero erased DVD+RW media, I've forwarded this information to our Development Team and will inform you about the results of their investigation as soon as possible. As this can take a few days we apologize in advance for any delay with the response.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexey Popov
     
  17. Menorcaman

    Menorcaman Retired Moderator

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    Hi Chrtistopher_NC and JMills,

    Many thanks for your additional testing, which I see confirm my own results. After bigc73542's input I was beginning to wonder whether the problem was confined solely to my own doorstep :p.

    It seems clear to me that TI's new direct recording to DVD feature is very much in its infancy, both from within Windows mode and the Linux based rescue environment. Companies such as Nero and Roxio have gone through years of product development to get where they are today so I'm not surprised that the Acronis Development Team are having teething problems with their new baby.

    Personally I'm a big believer in "horses for courses" and was never in favour of incorporating direct DVD recording into TI's feature set. I remain quite happy using third-party specialist software to burn images to DVD using the old "two-step" method. With Nero I can control the burn speed and use its autoverify function for added confidence. I only use DVD's very occassionally and, even then, only for secondary long-term archive purposes. All my regular backups are created to a dedicated second internal HD and to an external USB enclosure - much quicker, more convenient and infinitely more reliable :cool:.

    Anyway, hopefully Acronis Support will chip in here shortly with their comments.

    EDIT - Oops, seems Alexey must have read my mind!!

    Regards
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2006
  18. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello Jeremy,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    Please accept our apologies for the delay with the response.

    We've just tested it on the new upcoming build which will be released in the nearest future and Acronis One-Click Restore is capable of recognizing backups saved to all types of DVD media. We therefore recommend that you wait for the next build to come out and then let us know if the problem appears again. We will certainly provide you with the further instructions in this case.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexey Popov
     
  19. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello Christopher,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    Please accept our apologies for the delay with the response.

    I'm afraid that none of the currently available Acronis True Image versions allows one to adjust DVD burning\reading speed.

    If you want us to change the behaviour of Acronis True Image in any way or implement some new features to this product, please feel free to post any of your suggestions in Acronis True Image WISH-LIST thread.

    Thank you.
    --
    Alexey Popov
     
  20. ClickerTicker

    ClickerTicker Registered Member

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    I tested direct to DVD+R with build 3,677 just now. Same sort of problems as reported above. Error E00040012 popping up after auto-validate starts up, complaining that the media is not the last in the set.
    Validation started manually seemed to work. Do I trust it - not on your life.:thumbd:

    No, I've not got any form of packet-writing software installed. Quality Sony media. No problems with any other DVD writing apps.

    How this DVD support ever escaped in a released product staggers me. Apart from it being so excruciatingly slow that it's effectively unusable, it can't even get through a simple two DVD write and validate.
    As a new user to TI this is, to put it mildly, disappointing. As the product has such a devoted following and offers various advantages over Bootit, I'll probably carry on using it. However I'm obviously going to have to revert to my previous DVD method - write the images to disk and use Nero to burn them (with read/verify).
    I was going to recommend TI9 to a friend who really, really needs to focus on backup - but putting the images to disk and then using a separate product to write to DVD may well be beyond his technical ability/inclinations. I suspect this is not a unique situation...
     
  21. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    I excluded DVD's and CD's as a backup media from the beginning.
    First I did my backups on my second internal harddisk. Later on I bought an external harddisk for backup.

    It's not because of Acronis True Image or any other image backup software.
    DVD/CD's are just too vulnerable to use it as a backup media for HARDDISKS.
    I sometimes use them as a temporary backup solution, but never as a main one.

    For most people all important data is stored on their harddisk(s). How can you entrust such data to DVD/CD's ? That's what I don't understand.
    I guess alot of people neglect backup when they buy a computer and don't like to invest money in it either. :)
     
  22. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    I totally agree backing up to a USB External HD or Insternal HD...is the overall best scenario one could use. You have the advantage of making LARGER Back-Up files at a faster, and smoother process ...without having to "Disc Span", or use "Dual Layer" discs.

    But however, the only difference between DVD and USB Externals...is speed. There really shouldn't be no difference in the "Quality" of the file. Although Acronis has major problems in this area, ...there's software out there that burns to a DVD with perfection. I used to use "NTI DriveBackup 4.0". This program burned to DVD's WITHOUT any kind of problems whatsoever! Never had one bad DVD while using NTI in 2 years. Every DVD back-up worked with perfection!!

    I'd like to see Acronis squash this DVD Bug eventually....because some people want to use this option. Afterall, it does claim to back-up to DVD's. So therefore, someone needs to get this problem plagued area fixed...once-and-for-all.
     
  23. furballi

    furballi Registered Member

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    The most effective method of backup is to store the data remotely from the PC where it cannot be destroyed. Tape drives if you have big bucks. For most users, removeable media such as CDs/DVDs would be the most cost effective solution. There are still a few new PCs that come with restore CDs/DVDs.

    Quality CDs/DVDs by Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim are much more reliable than any HDD. Make two copies and put one in a safety deposit box if you have important data that you don't want to lose. Limit the burn speed to 24x with CDs and 8x with DVDs for best result. Pros keep image files of an as-loaded and patched OS on a DVD for additional security.

    Time is $. I refuse to pay the extortion fees charged by data recovery specialists. Therefore, I do not use an imaging program if I know that the program is not 100% functional with my PC.
     
  24. starsfan09

    starsfan09 Registered Member

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    That's why I never had problems making Back-Ups to DVD.
    I used Taiyo Yuden (T02 & TYG02 - Made in Japan), and every once in awhile...Verbatim Dual Layer (Taiwan);)

    I won't put any other brand in my NEC.:blink:
     
  25. ClickerTicker

    ClickerTicker Registered Member

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    Yes, well said. I think this goes to the heart of the matter. Those of us that have been around computers for longer than we care to admit can debate the fine points of backup strategy as a cosy club and all of us will probably be fairly safe whatever befalls our machines. Unfortunately there are a whole raft of people out there who have no real idea that they ought to back up their data at all. Those are the folks that should also be benefiting from products like TI9. They are naive enough to think that "it does what it says on the tin"... and see no good reason (or cannot even think of a reason) not to burn images directly to DVD.
    The UK packaging of TI9 quotes from a PCW review "It's simple to use and sensibly priced and should be part of any PC owner's software toolkit". If a significant chunk of it doesn't work simply (if at all) then a lot of new users are going to come screaming to people like us for help. I rest my case...
     
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