TI 11 Clone Help Please

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by wbear, Apr 29, 2008.

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  1. wbear

    wbear Registered Member

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    I just purchased TI 11 and I have a few questions before I attempt a clone.

    I have XP sp2 and a WD 500 gb Sata with a single partition currently installed. I want to clone this disk to a new WD 750 gb Sata with a single partition. The 750 will become the single operating disk and I will keep the 500 installed but disconnected. I want to keep everything on the 500 so that if the 750 goes bad or has any prob I can disconnect it, reconnect the 500 and be back in business. I have had to many drives go bad and I'm tired of having to reinstall everything!

    So I know I have a choice of using the auto clone or manual clone mode.

    1. I am tempted to use the auto mode but I cant seem to find a definitive answer to these questions. In auto mode is the original disk data left untouched or is it erased by default? I realize I have a choice of what happens to the data on the original disk if I use the manual mode.

    2. If I use the auto mode will the single partition on the new disk (750) automatically be made larger than the old 500 to take advantage of the increased size of the new disk? In other words will I end up with a single partition on the new disk that takes up the full 750 gb?

    3. When cloning will the new disk be initialized and partitioned as part of the process or do I have to use the TI 11 "adding a new disk" feature to accomplish that first then do the cloning?

    4. I know I have to disconnect the old disk before booting the first time after cloning.

    Any other suggestions for me?
    Thanks!
     
  2. DwnNdrty

    DwnNdrty Registered Member

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    1. The original should be left untouched. But this is True Image and there were a few users who claimed that they lost what was on the original - could have been user error.
    2. In auto, unless Ver 11 has been "improved" (I can hear some chuckles out there), you may end up with a 500Gb size, but there is a very easy fix known as the SecureZone trick.
    3. Again, this may have changed in Ver 11, but try first without the "Add Disk" if it doesn't work, you can always restart and use the Add Disk feature.

    You will find most of us prefer to make a Backup Image, rather than Clone. The Image can always be restored if needed. And depending on the size of the drive holding the Images, you can keep more than one.
     
  3. wbear

    wbear Registered Member

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    DwnNdrty, Thanks for the reply.

    If I use the manual clone feature and its "Manual – you will specify the size of the new partition" will I get a 750 gb partition on the new disk? Or what about "Proportional – the new disk space will be proportionally distributed among cloned
    partitions" Wouldn't that give me a full 750 gb?

    Why do you prefer Backup Image, rather than Clone for the job I need? I am confused on what advantages backup image will give me.

    I will search for info on the Secure Zone trick.
     
  4. DwnNdrty

    DwnNdrty Registered Member

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    It's been ages since I used the Clone feature. Maybe someone else will jump in and clarify if you can expand the partitions in Manual Cloning.

    I prefer Backup simply because I can save more than one Image on the drive that holds my Backups - I have 3 computers that I backup. And let's say the used space on your system drive is 30 Gb, if you use Backup, the Image will be about 18 to 20 Gb using the default Normal compression.
     
  5. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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  6. wbear

    wbear Registered Member

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    Thanks Brian. However this guide addresses image restoration only and not cloning. I know I can try that method but I still want to pursue cloning at this time.

    Seems like most people on the forum who are posting use ver 10 or older. Hopefully someone using the latest ver can help me out. I wonder if ver 11 has fixed the limits I have been told about.

    I am confused as to why TI has these limits/problems when trying to clone to a larger drive. Before I bought the program I studied the website info and the TI 11 manual. I learned the program was supposed to be simple to use for average computer users and was able to do exactly what I wanted. The documentation states that it is made for people who want to install/upgrade to a larger drive and keep the operating system, programs, settings etc. Now I find out that in the clone mode it keeps the it keeps the same size of the orig disk and leaves out the extra capacity of the new drive. Now I might be able to do the special trick to increase the partion size to max but lots of users this program is aimed at might not. No disrespect to Acronis but the auto clone mode and even the manual clone mode does not seem to operate as advertised (at least thats what the forum reports) in the documentation. How can a user upgrade easily to a larger drive when it keeps the old size?

    Now I have not actually tried the cloning process myself yet using ver 11. I wanted feed back before I tried it to be safe and at this point I'm glad I did.

    With all the versions Acronis has progressed thru I wonder why they have not been able to make changes to the program so it clones as advertised?

    Maybe the changes have been made in ver 11 but no one who has responded seems to know. Any actual 11 users out there care to comment? I'm not giving up on TI but I'd like some facts before I give it a try.

    Thanks, wbear
     
  7. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    wbear,

    I would recommend doing a Manual Clone. You can resize the partition to the size you want, including up to the entire drive size (the destination drive does not need to be prepared in advance). The Proportional option will do a "best guess" on the resizes and may or may not be what you want. You will be shown the results before the clone starts so you can always go back and change it if you want.

    As already stated, make sure to select the option to keep the data on the original drive.
     
  8. wbear

    wbear Registered Member

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    Ok Mudcrab and everyone else that responded, thanks for the info.

    1. When cloning I guess the new drive has the exact ID #, serial, identification or whatever its called of the old one so that windows, office and other programs still think they are on the same drive/computer so that no reactivation or serial needs to be reinstalled? Am I correct and what is that ID actually called?

    If I am correct about the above is it just true for cloning or is Imaging a disk like that too?

    2. Another? I know there are differences in opinion on wether or not to use the secure zone or just back up to an external disk but if I am going to use the secure zone should I install it on the 500 gb orig drive that is to become my failure fixer before I clone it to the 750 gb drive or not put it on at all and just put it on the 750 after it becomes my operating drive? Did that make sense?

    3. My 500 gb that I am replacing is only about a month old. Is it necessary to run check disk on it before cloning? What about defragmenting it before the cloning process. Any opinions?
     
  9. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    There isn't really any difference between cloning or imaging regarding this. Windows will still detect that it's a different hard drive (different model/SN, etc.) and may or may not require reactivation depending on if it considers the change significant enough. You won't know until you try.

    You can do it either way. In my TI 11 (8,053) cloning tests with the SZ, it survived intact on the clone. If you create the SZ first (on the 500GB drive), use the Manual clone and resize it as needed just like any other partition. If you plan on adding it to the 750GB drive, then you might want to allow the required space when resizing the 500GB partition during the clone. Then it can be created in the unallocted space.

    I wouldn't bother doing either if the drive's been working correctly. If you have a problem you can run chkdsk on it.
     
  10. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    wbear,
    Here is a short term link to
    My guide to Manaul Cloning using the TI Rescue CD. This pdf guide is currently a "work in progress". Upon completion, the revised pdf will be added to the forum with a new location.

    This pdf is based on the same format as my "Help Guide on Upgrading to larger harddrive" but this new guide relates entirely to Cloning in Manual Mode.

    You're more than welcome to download this and I hope you find it beneficial.

    Thanks to Brian & MudCrab for their recommendation.
     
  11. wbear

    wbear Registered Member

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    Hey thats a great guide!
     
  12. wbear

    wbear Registered Member

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    I made my rescue disk and I have questions.

    1. Dumb ? but If the puter is shut off and you want to boot with the rescue CD to perform some task how do you get the CD rom drive to open up to insert the disk? Mine will not open with the power off.

    2. When I booted with the rescue CD and was finished I clicked on exit and was confronted with some type of dos looking screen and could find no way to shut down the computer. I had to manually turn off the power to shut the computer down. This seems like a crude way to do it. Is there something I am missing on the rescue CD screen that will shut it down?
     
  13. DwnNdrty

    DwnNdrty Registered Member

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    You just have to do a little pre-planning and insert the cd before you shut off power.
     
  14. wbear

    wbear Registered Member

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    Thats what I thought. Thanks.
     
  15. DwnNdrty

    DwnNdrty Registered Member

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    Actually with most systems when you hit the power button to start, you have enough time then to open the cd drawer, plop in the cd and close the tray before the system looks for the cd to boot. And in yet other systems, after you power on and open the tray, you can leave the tray open and the system will pull it closed and then boot from the cd.
     
  16. wbear

    wbear Registered Member

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    OK I'll give that a try.

    But what about this ? Thanks.

    2. When I booted with the rescue CD and was finished I clicked on exit and was confronted with some type of dos looking screen and could find no way to shut down the computer. I had to manually turn off the power to shut the computer down. This seems like a crude way to do it. Is there something I am missing on the rescue CD screen that will shut it down?
     
  17. DwnNdrty

    DwnNdrty Registered Member

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    Sorry, I have no idea ... I don't use ver 11 ... I use the BartPe flavour of True Image Ver 9.3677
     
  18. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    Nothing is missing. Linux does this on some computers. You could try the quiet acpi=off noapic option detailed in Section II of the PLEASE READ BEFORE YOU POST thread and see if it helps.

    Another option is to just press the reset button on the computer (on some you need to hold the power button in/down for 5-10 seconds).
     
  19. wbear

    wbear Registered Member

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    Thanks for all the answers. This forum is a great source of info.
     
  20. wbear

    wbear Registered Member

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    Verifying, cloning etc can be done thru windows or using the rescue disk. Some say its better to do it while booted thru the rescue disk.

    I was wondering exactly why the rescue boot method may be superior?
     
  21. MudCrab

    MudCrab Imaging Specialist

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    For cloning, I'd say because there's less chance of Windows seeing the destination drive prior to the cloning or after cloning. Windows won't allow identical drives.

    For validating, you should do it from both Windows and from the TI CD so you know it works in both. Once you know you can successfully validate from the TI CD you don't need to do it every time.
     
  22. TommyTechnology

    TommyTechnology Registered Member

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    I have been using the cloning feature heavily recently in TI-11. I have a Dell 531s Slimline desktop - and in it I have placed two 7200RPM Seagate Drives. One came with the computer and is 320GB (just one partition) - the other was bought at the local store and is 500GB. Running the Clone process from within the running Windows Vista (with SP1) I choose manual and choose to "keep the data", and choose the "resize to fit" options. Acronis swings into action and the computer then re-boots itself. On restarting (no boot CD or DVD is needed - TI has loaded a program into memory for you) the Vista Welcome Screen first appears but then the whole thing goes into a primitive kind of DOS screen, at which point it performs the cloning - then tells me it's done - and then tells me that if I press any key it will shut down completely. Time is about 10 minutes on my 30GB of 320GB system.

    Upon reboot the C: drive version of Vista comes up (which I had previously labeled as "Drive-1"), and once full boot is achieved I can go into the Explorer and see the newly created clone. The clone is also labeled "Drive-1" so I first off go ahead and relabeled it "Drive-2". Vista totally ignores this drive on daily operations and Spysweeper scans it for viruses just fine - no programs have acted strangely due to the mirror copy of the C: drive. I also went into Disk Management and swapped the drive letters out so that this new drive is D: and the DVD burner is now labeled E:

    The cloned drive is 100% utilized - it has one partition that takes up the entire 500GB. Ironically it looks like it has half as many files on it!!! This is because of the cluster size decisions made by TrueImage during cloning - the original 30GB of files on C: only take up 16GB on the smaller cluster sized Drive-2... do not confuse this with any type of compression - all 100% the exact same uncompressed normal everyday files are present on both drives.

    I have already fully tested the reverse process - Cloning D: back to C: works perfectly, and because the drives are SATA 3.0, you can also, if you like, swap them by merely switching around the SATA cables on the Mobo. The system will always boot the drive that is attached to SATA slot zero - it does not care that SATA slot 1 also has a perfectly valid boot MBR and Active Partition.

    BTW, the reason I started doing this cloning as opposed to creating Image Archives was time factors. When I was using my laptops a lot, or after I first bought this Slimline desktop, I had just one HDD in these systems. Whenever I wanted to created a full, bare metal capable restore, I would have TrueImage 11 create the Image and write it to a USB 2.0 external 2.5 inch type of drive - my favorite one being a 200GB made by Hitachi. The time to make this archive would often be over two hours - the restore time would be similar. When it takes two hours to make archives you find you get very reluctant to do the backups - but geeks like me know that is dangerous.

    Placing two 7200RPM drives into a desktop case changed all that. Archives take only about 11-12 minutes, I can have TI create one of the C: drive and write it onto the D: drive. That alone is awesome!!

    But then the next step is to restore the Image Archive in case of trouble, that's another 11-12 minutes.

    But with cloning I can swap the SATA cables in just 60 seconds and reboot - bingo, fastest possible "restore" there is!!! I tinker with systems way too much, so time is important to me.

    :D
     
  23. wbear

    wbear Registered Member

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    Tommys explanation of his method seems simple and what I am looking for but I am confused about one thing. He does not have to take any precaution about booting after the clone with two operating system drives connected. It automatically selects the sata 1 slot and ignores the other. Both drives are even labeled the same.

    Is it because of the sata drive capability? The fact that he has Vista? Or both?

    I have satas but with XP. Will his method work for me or do I have to follow the more complicated procedures detailed by the previous gracious posters?

    I was going to follow GroverH's instructions in his manual cloning guide of booting with the disk, exchanging drive positions before cloning etc.

    Opinions?
     
  24. GroverH

    GroverH Registered Member

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    Achieving success via cloning is possible using a variety of methods. My cloning guide was written to provide a successful clone for the most people over a variety of hardware variations.

    The cloning guide contains two important recommendations:
    1. After cloning and prior to the first boot, the original disk should be disconnected. This is as simple as disconnecting the data cable prior to the first boot following cloning.

    2. Prior to cloning, remove the original drive and put the intended clone in its place so that the cloning procedures takes place with the new drive in its final position. New drive should occupy the same position as the original using the same data cable connector. This is spelled out clearly in the guide. Some computer brands will not clone properly if the clone is not in same boot position during the cloning process.

    There have been other prior postings about successful cloning using the method described by TommyTechnology. However, there also have been numerous postings of failed cloning where the drives are not separated or the position is not the same. What works for one may not work for all. Again, my guides are to provide the best chances of success for the most number of people but variations are certainly possible.

    When cloning a system drive, cloning when booted from the TI Rescue CD takes Windows out of the equation and improves the chances of success.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2008
  25. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    TommyTechnology,

    Could you look in Disk Management and let us know if you have a System drive and a Boot drive?
    What are their drive letters?
    Is it different when you are booted from the other HD?
     
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