The most advanced backup software/technology

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by lordraiden, Sep 15, 2010.

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  1. lordraiden

    lordraiden Registered Member

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    I'm looking for a good backup system, I have read that the best method is incremental backups like Comodo Time Machine, Rollback RX, EAZ-FIX, Shadowprotect?, Acronis True image?...

    I'm a bit disconnected from the backup world so I accept any recommendation (the price is not important)

    Which is the best security backup app and Why, what makes this app different from the others?

    Thanks a lot.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2010
  2. forty

    forty Guest

    Macrium Reflect (paid) is going to be tough to beat in my opinion.Easy to set up and make just the way you want.I use incremental and the boot option so I don't have to use the backup disc very often.The only reason I try anything else is boredom , and it usually doesn't take very long to come running back.:p
     
  3. lordraiden

    lordraiden Registered Member

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    I'm quite interested in a backup method that does not uses almost any resources, so a backup during boot seems to be a good option, do you know about any other software able to do this?
     
  4. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Shadowprotect's continous incremental feature is pretty unique. Once the first image is done, it runs automatically throughout the day. At the end of the day it collapses them into a daily incremental. At the end of the week it makes a weekly and so on. All automatically

    The average time for me for an incremental during the day is 7-10 seconds. You never feel them.

    Pete
     
  5. zfactor

    zfactor Registered Member

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    agreed about macrium. i use the paid version and love it shadow protect is second on my list again this is imo..
     
  6. lordraiden

    lordraiden Registered Member

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    I have 70 gigas in my system partition, so if I use this backup methods how big will be the backup? or how good the compression is? more or less.

    Why do you prefer macrium over Shadowprotect?
     
  7. zfactor

    zfactor Registered Member

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    first off i hate their lic model they use. i have many times had issues where i have to contact them when reformatting or say swapping a mobo or hard drive etc. i have also in rare cases had issues with restoring backups with sp. again very rare but i have yet to ever have this issue with more than 12 systems running macrium. the one advantage is the foldimg of continuous incrementals though with shadow protect. but that depends on if you need that or not.

    on one system running shadow protect the incrementals would make the system come to a crawl for the few seconds it was running this was a client that is a dentist who owns his own office. it was early morning and the system would basically just freeze while sp was running. many hours back and forth with sp support got me no where. i switched him also to macrium and it just simply runs without a fault in more than 6 months now. sp is a very good program and i have just had a few issues with it where i have not with macrium. if macrium was not here at all i would still use sp though
     
  8. pajenn

    pajenn Registered Member

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    Rollback Rx, EAZ-FIX and CTM are different from Shadowprotect, Acronis, and other full image backup softwares.

    The former, Rollback Rx in particular as that's what I use, just locks down the sectors of your system partition (or all partitions on the system drive) corresponding to each snapshot (backup). Snapshots are therefore almost instantaneous and recoveries take little longer than the average reboot. The disadvantage is that you cannot defrag your system or do other similar operations without uninstalling the program first, and the snapshots are more vulnerable to corruption than full image backups that actually make a copy of the partitions you backup to another location.

    In terms of full image programs, they have different advantages and disadvantages so there's no one "best" program, and one might work better or faster on a particular machine than another. I personally like Drive Snaphot, Image for DOS (on some machines), ShadowProtect, Macrium Reflect and Acronis Backup & Restore (i.e. their corporate product, not their crappier True Image Home version for home users).

    Image for DOS is best for DOS based backups and restores if that's your thing. Drive Snapshot is tiny and portable, with excellent command-line support and really smart way of making differential backups. Macrium I like because it's free (including the BartPE version of the full version which allows for fast incremental backups) - it's also small compared to Acronis or ShadowProtect. Acronis Backup & Restore 10 also let's you make fast incremental backups and has excellent command-line support, plus for me it has been faster sometimes than Macrium so I often use it from my BartPE partition. ShadowProtect is also extremely fast and has worked the most reliably for me of all the backup softwares, but it uses the slower method for incremental backups (aka differential backups), which I find pointless on my systems since they take as long as full backups - ymmv. I'm not familiar with (haven't tried) their continuous backups thing, but some people seem to like that a lot. I don't use it since I don't have any of these programs installed on my Windows XP partition, except Drive Snapshot, since I prefer to run them when Windows is offline. I keep Drive Snapshot installed since it's so small (about 300 KB with no active processes, except when in use), and sometimes I use Rollback Rx because of the quick backups and restores.
     
  9. andyman35

    andyman35 Registered Member

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    +1 :thumb:

    Macrium is an excellent utility,ultra reliable and stable.
     
  10. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    Ya. Perzackly.
    As per OP Lordraiden; be a bit more specific :)

    Do you want light virtualisation/snapshots: RollBack-Returnil-Roxio BackonTrack (which is slightly different concept) etc

    Or do you want a full system image for recovery:
    Macrium-ShadowProtect-Terabyte-Acronis-Paragon-DriveSnapshot
    Some good comments above, by pajenn

    There are literally dozens of threads re "best back-up and imaging " software

    For light Virtualisation/snapshot/immediate recovery there are also some good threads and this
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=230459
    and this
    https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=196103
    HTH
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  11. lordraiden

    lordraiden Registered Member

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    I'm more interested in full backup software like Shadowprotect.
    How is the compression ratio of this kind of software?

    How big is the difference of space of the backups btw the "light" and the "full" software?
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2010
  12. pajenn

    pajenn Registered Member

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    As a rule of thumb, full backups are a little over 50% of the space in use.

    For example, my system partition is 45 GB of which 30 GB is in use. Backups tend to be about 17 GB in size using standard compression. There is little gain in my experience to using high compression, and the differences in backup sizes between different top-of-the-line products tend to be insignificant. I have a 1.5 TB external hard drive I use for my backups so compression is the last criteria on my list.

    Huge. Using Rollback Rx again as the example, it just locks down the sectors on the system partition, and uses free sectors for new data. It doesn't copy anything to another partition. On my 45 GB system partition with 15 GB free space, I can change (in theory) about 15 GB of data before Rollback either craps out or starts to complain about lack of space, at which point I have to delete some or all of the older snapshots and defrag the remaining ones using Rollback's own snapshot defragger. In practice that gives me space for about a dozen snapshots over a week or two, and I never let the free space go under 5 GB on purpose. However, if you rarely install new software or update existing software or make big changes to your system partition, then your free space may last you for months on end without problems.
     
  13. Boyfriend

    Boyfriend Registered Member

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    @pajenn: RollBack Rx seems interesting solution. I use Active Boot Disk Suite (5.0.5) Bootable flash for backup purpose.
    I currently use Returnil System Safe 2011 (3.2.10351-5418-REL3) on Windows 7 Ultimate x64 without any major problem. I have tested RollBack Rx 9.1 (2695223310) in VM as well as on spare computer (Windows 7 x86). I want to switch from RSS to RollBack Rx. Is it advisable? Will it protect me better without interfering my work? Can snapshots be corrupted during normal usage? Anyone have any experience about RollBack Rx on Windows 7 x64?
     
  14. lordraiden

    lordraiden Registered Member

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    But the defragmenter tool in Rollback Rx defragment the full hd? or just the backups?

    I have read in Comodo forums that CTM is compatible with the defragmenters, that you shouln't have any problem.
     
  15. pajenn

    pajenn Registered Member

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    It just defrags the backups, or does something to rearrange the sector maps corresponding to different snapshots so that the snapshots take up less space. I'm not sure exactly what it does, but it's very fast and not a full defragmentation in the traditional sense.

    I've read some bad reviews of CTM on these forums, but have no real personal experience with it.
     
  16. andyman35

    andyman35 Registered Member

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    Actually it's not recommended to run defrag programs with CTM since the 'rearranging' of files will greatly increase the snapshot size.
     
  17. pajenn

    pajenn Registered Member

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    It's worth trying. Just make a full Active@ backup before you install Rollback Rx, and if you want to make any further Active@ backups while Rollback is installed, then either uninstall Rollback temporarily, or make a full sector-by-sector backup that includes the "free" space. In fact, you should keep making Active@ backups every 2 weeks or once a month because you don't want to rely solely on Rollback Rx. It's convenient but as I said before, less reliable than full imaging software.

    Also, be super careful not to modify your partitions in any way while booted to your Active@ USB flash disk. For example, running ChkDsk or MyDefrag from Active@ Boot Disk Suite would likely corrupt Rollback's snapshots and possible render your system unbootable. And don't make any changes to your system that would be implemented offline such as resizing the system partition, changing the page file size or location (if it's currently on the system partition), running your system in Returnil's shadow mode, defragging system files on reboot (when Rollback isn't watching), or stuff like that. Also programs that try to "securely" delete files may either malfunction (since they cannot delete data on sectors locked by Rollback Rx) or cause Rollback Rx to malfunction if they (try to) delete the files on reboot. And last, keep track of your free space, if you start to run low you are in danger of running out so make sure to delete some older Rollback Snapshots and defrag the remaining ones using Rollback's defrag tool. YMMV but Rollback Rx is definitely worth a try.
     
  18. Boyfriend

    Boyfriend Registered Member

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    @pajenn: Thanks for your reply. I will soon try it after backup.
     
  19. Osaban

    Osaban Registered Member

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    Storagecraft ShadowProtect Desktop.

    Speed: restores in 4 minutes to 8 minutes (11 GB and 26 GB).

    Reliability: more than 50 restores without a glitch.

    Price: expensive, but for you it is not important.
     
  20. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    There is a companion program to RollBack Rx called Drive Cloner Rx. This program will create images of your drive and it "understands" RollBack so there is no need to uninstall or do sector by sector images.

    I have been using RollBack Rx for some 2 years now and I can say it has performed flawlessly.

    Very highly recommended.
     
  21. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    !! :doubt: Is that true.??
    Hhmm: has this changed ??
    From HDS forums
    http://horizondatasys-forum.com/drive-cloner-rx/384-drive-cloner-rx-acronis.html
    RollBack may be a good app, but once committed: HDS owns your disc in some unexpected and expected ways that require some extra planning -as noted above- for full imaging.
    That advice in general applies to any full image with any of the Tools already mentioned: uninstall RB: which has implications for the snapshots OR Make a "raw", or whatever equivalent, image which can be big.

    lordraiden:
    From above:
    And Active@
    And Clonezilla (with Gparted or Parted magic for disc mgt)
    These are the options
    Personal experience and no failures: Terabyte: IFW/IFD/BING, and Shadowprotect.

    :) Terabyte about to release BING V2.xx which will likely re-write the option book.
    BING also gives total control over Partition Mgt and Boot Mgt which the otherwise excellent ShadowProtect does not and is way cheaper.

    Storagecraft and terabyte offer great support.

    Experience with Clonezilla also good but already had other tools so just stuck with them.

    If $$ no object get the tech version of Shadow Protect
    (- the standard Desktop edition is usually more than enough for most :) )
    http://www.storagecraft.com/shadow_protect_IT_edition.php
    A very serious tool with a serious price
    ( can sometimes get a trial version if u ask nicely)
    AND
    TeraByte Bundle
    :)
    play on...
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2010
  22. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    Sorry, I was not clear,,,,,I did not mean that the snapshots would be reclaimed but if you image with another imaging program with RX installed and do not do a full sector by sector backup you will (as I understand it) have boot problems when you try to restore your image. I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that this potential problem would not be a problem if the image were made with Driver Cloner. I gathered this from a communication I had from Horizon tech support when I was considering purchasing RB 2+ years ago,,,, and I quote "RBs imager, unlike other imaging programs, understands RX and so its not nec to uninstal RX when imaging with it."-----or something to that effect, it has been over 2 years now but thats more or less what I was told.

    In all honesty I have never had to put the program to the test as RX has performed flawlessly and I have done many reversions what with software tests, suspicious events (I am a tad paranoid and if I decide to open an e-mail from someone I never heard off I will, as a matter of course, take a snap, open the e-mail, and then revert to the snap) as well as from backing out of PC problems,,,,,,, RX has met every test.

    That being said I am not relying on Drive Cloner alone. I image with DC weekly with RX installed and then, once a month I uninstal RX, defrage my drive and do other assorted house cleaning, image with Paragon, and then reinstall RX. ---- As I said I am a tad paranoid.

    If I am incorrect about Driver Cloners ability to restore the PC to its state as of the date of the image (minus snaps which are a safety measure only IMO, not an archive that needs to be kept if the PC is functioning properly and especially if other backups, be they from Drive Cloner or some other program, are available) I would be grateful for the information.

    PS: by the way, I have been using RX on my lap-top as having SP on the laptop would do me no good when I was on the road. On my Desktop I have SP and have just added RX and Drive Cloner to it as I have had such good results with it that I feel kinda naked without it. Thats not intended to take anything away from SP which from my research is the best thats available (except for RXs speed of restore/reverst which is unsurpassed). My post above was only intended to correct a bit of misinformation (or rather missed information) regarding RollBack.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2010
  23. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    Apologies to LR for brief diversion:
    Ya, ... at least.
    Not paranoid: :) : good process in action: just perhaps a touch complex..
    I can see that RBRx would be good for that.
    I would by nature carry a tool to restore a full image: my paranoia at work !! :)
    From many users posts, RBRx seems to have improved outta sight from when I/we used the earlier versions. Problem for some is "once burnt..."
    A clear distinction needs to be made for OP re RBRx snapshot restore, applicability, practices and methodologies Vs Image save and restore.
    :thumb:
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2010
  24. bgoodman4

    bgoodman4 Registered Member

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    That is good advice.

    RollBack is not a backup program, it is a rollback program and as such in order to make backup copies of your drive with RB Rx installed certain measures need to be taken. These measures are either do a sector by sector image (takes longer to do and consumes more drive space), uninstal Rx and then image, use Drive Cloner.

    Where Rx excels is in the area of providing extremely fast snap shots (under 5 seconds, and very fast restores (2 or 3 min). It is capable of automatically taking snaps every hour which is less frequent than the ability of ShadowProtect (every 15 min) but it does not need to be connected to an external drive in order to take the snap (its very unlikely that an external drive would be available at all times with a lap-top which is why I originally bought RB Rx for my lap-top and SP for the desktop.

    Bottom line is that in order to decide which program to use it is nec to first decide what you want that program to do. If your looking for quick recovery capability, especially on a portable PC, then RB Rx is an excellent choice. If you are looking to be able to recover from hardware problems as well as software problems then an imaging program would be the way to go.
     
  25. bellgamin

    bellgamin Very Frequent Poster

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    Of the apps you wrote about, these 2 interest me the most: Drive Snapshot (DS) & Macrium.

    Questions:

    1- Can either or both of them save to an external hard drive &/or my second internal hard drive? Will that drive be bootable or selectable during startup -- before Windows starts?
    2- What is "BartPE version" of Macrium?
    3- Is the pay-version of Macruim simpler to use? Between Macrium & DS, which is simpler -- hopefully, simple enough for a doofus (like me) to use?
    4- You mention command-line support for DS. I prefer using a GUI. Does it have one?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    New Kid on the Block
    Another ongoing thread herein led me to Keriver.com which offers . . .

    + "Keriver 1-Click Restore Pro" -- evidently a snapshot-type program {1-Click Restore Pro (1-CRP) is now in "released version" status.}

    PLUS

    + "Keriver Image" -- obviously an imaging program. {Image program is in (seemingly advanced) beta status.}
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    1-CRP is the one I trialed. I had a minor issue with 1-CRP's 30-day trial copy. I emailed Keriver at ~ 2PM & they had resolved the issue within a matter of a few hours -- on a Sunday evening, no less!

    1-CRP has a 30-day free trial. Until 17 Oct 2010 they have a 50% discount coupon, so the net price, if you get a license, is only $10. I am now a licensee & I am fully persuaded that it certainly warrants at least a test run by those who are seeking backup proggies.

    Based on my limited but very successful test, & their super-ultra-fast-&-friendly support, I recommend others give 1-CRP some consideration (even if only to give encouragement to a promising friendly outfit with useful proggies & excellent support).

    NOTE: the support guy at Keriver is a fellow named "River" -- at least he is the lad who signed the support messages I received.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2010
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