The laws of Australia will trump the laws of mathematics: Turnbull

Discussion in 'privacy general' started by Minimalist, Jul 13, 2017.

  1. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    Well, one can embed encrypted data in audio files. Which still play normally.
     
  2. J_L

    J_L Registered Member

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    And videos. I think the best steganography program is OpenPuff. Not the same thing converting encrypted data to an image, but it's another option.
     
  3. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    The race to ruin the internet is upon us
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-race-to-ruin-the-internet-is-upon-us/
     
  4. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    I gather that the current Australian government fears being overrun by Southeast Asian refugees. And Islamic terrorists. So they're paranoid. Perhaps understandably, I suppose. Everyone seems to be getting paranoid these days. Again, perhaps understandably :eek:
     
  5. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
  6. XenMan

    XenMan Registered Member

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    Yes and no. The Act doesn't have penalties but is enforceable in tort law, but needs to be tested.

    If there are consequences of the breach you have good civil grounds, but we have smaller payouts than the USA by a couple of zeros.

    Hurt feelings and the paranoid aren't covered, but it is wrong to say there is no protection.
     
  7. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    :) Fair enough.
     
  8. ronald739

    ronald739 Registered Member

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  9. XenMan

    XenMan Registered Member

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    This will give authorities access to your protected online information in the event of an investigation.”

    This needs to change for important investigations, and more than likely will.

    It already exists to a certain extent, but often isn’t enforced as at warrants the user usually says that they can’t remember and try a few times to ‘fail’, and then the device is off to digital forensics to try and crack. Also there is usually ton of other evidence, however that is changing with encryption, as covered in other threads.

    The use of these laws is always based on ‘reasonable suspicion’ which requires substantial evidence from some other source to initiate the execution of a warrant, or for Customs to stop people before entering the country.

    Of course the paranoid think that everyone coming into the country or randoms on the street are going to have to hand over the passwords for later monitoring by ‘The Government’. If you have ever been through a customs controlled area there are so many passengers going through that it is not possible to stop everyone and get the data, let alone use it.

    Also there is this arrogance that everything in world ‘is about me’, which produces a lack of understanding that the majority of average people will never be impacted, but in stopping child exploitation and terrorism it saves lives.
     
  10. Krusty

    Krusty Registered Member

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    Australia's surveillance laws could damage internet security globally, overseas critics say
     
  11. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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  12. mood

    mood Updates Team

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    Apple rebukes Australia’s “dangerously ambiguous” anti-encryption bill
    October 12, 20108
    https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/12/a...s-dangerously-ambiguous-anti-encryption-bill/
     
  13. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    OAIC calls for sunset clause on encryption-busting Bill and warns of privacy risks
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/oaic-...tion-busting-bill-and-warns-of-privacy-risks/
     
  14. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    Australia's anti-encryption legislation fails to address human rights concerns: Committee
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/austr...s-to-address-human-rights-concerns-committee/
     
  15. Yuki2718

    Yuki2718 Registered Member

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    Well said.:) If there's enough evidence that the suspect wolud probably be terrorist, court issued warrant, and these processes as well as how the acquired info are retained, used, and disposed are all transparent and open to 3rd party audit, then I believe nobody except paranoid will complain. But as the last article by Minimalist suggests, there's so far too much lack of such regulation and transparency, as well as reasonable cost-effectiveness assessment.

    There's no reason to let govt do anything they want w/ no accountability. When somebody says this, often one-track minded ppl take this as privacy-vs-monitor scheme, as if it meant warning to Orwellian world (often w/ all-or-nothing thinking such as no-privacy-in-public argument). Such too much focus on monitoring comes from too short-sited yet widespread view of privacy that it is about keeping secret. Most (yup, probably not all) info gathered and stored themselves are not that concerning for most ppl. The problem arises when he's declined to board airplane w/out explanation - the fact is his profile somehow matched to those of suspects. The problem in this case is he's not given any explanation nor autonomy to the process which is essential for democracy, but few ppl realize privacy as a matter of social value, (mis)taking this only as individual rights' matter.

    Many privacy problems in current era come from not info collection, but info processing & dissemination. Tho it may not be a good example, in revenge porn there's no problem in info collection, as the lady trust her boyfriend. It becomes problem when she failed to delete photos before breaking up (info processing) and he exposed them in social media then the media failed to immediately block it (info dissemination). I don't care govt to collect some info on me, but I care if they're safely protected and legitimately used, and if I can have rights to request them and active involvement in decision made by the info.

    In short, we need regulation, transparency, and accountability to maintain healthy democracy. Privacy and national security do not always conflict.

    (*) I've borrowed some idea from D.J.Solove's "Understanding Privacy" which I've started to read.
     
  16. deBoetie

    deBoetie Registered Member

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    @Yuki2718 - the situation is by any standards unprecedented in history, so assertions regarding how this is essential to protect us from the Bad Guys - by people who demonstrably are at best economical with the truth, is a big problem. One which has nasty historical warnings. The assertions are also made by those who do not bear the risks and costs, yet benefit (by virtue of increasing empire, control and budget).

    Compounding the issue is the problem of mass surveillance and algorithmic judgement. It is simply not the case that a reasonable person will be rejecting false positives and evaluating the quality of the data; they will go straight onto a database to their detriment. Therefore a prudent "innocent" person has a significant risks from invasion of privacy, and would be wise to take steps to minimise those risks.
     
  17. Yuki2718

    Yuki2718 Registered Member

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    @deBoetie
    Note airplane was only an example and even in the example problems is not FP, but the lack of transparency & autonomy (autonomy might be poor wording, but IDK better one). Also I'm aware that "nobody will be interested in you" argument is partially flawed given NSA staff used spy tools on spouses, ex-lovers & Google Engineer Stalked Teens, Spied on Chats. No reason not to think they're only the tip of the iceberg. But full transparency & regulation should (yes, theoretically...) address this. Ideally we should be able to see faces & names of those who can access our data.

    What we have to avoid is being caught in "national security vs privacy" scheme. Recent history have proven majority choose the former. This'll play right into such org's hand. Instead, we can demand full transparency and regulation w/ solid logic so they can't use nat.security as excuse. They may think of another excuse such as cost etc. but these'll be easier to counter. PPl have to be educated to understand nat.security do not conflicts privacy and even when conflicts transparency means they have to give reasonable balance & account.
     
  18. Stefan Froberg

    Stefan Froberg Registered Member

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    Adding more hay to haystack will not make the job of finding bad guys any easier.
    I think most here will understand that. Even a 5 year old child would understand that.
    But for some reason policy makers and law enforcers fail to understand that....
     
  19. mood

    mood Updates Team

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    Australian encryption-busting Bill fatally flawed: UN Special Rapporteur
    October 29, 2018
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/austr...ng-bill-fatally-flawed-un-special-rapporteur/
     
  20. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    No need to keep encryption-busting capabilities secret: Internet Australia
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/no-ne...sting-capabilities-secret-internet-australia/
     
  21. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    Cyber industry probes economic impact of crypto bill
    https://www.itnews.com.au/news/cyber-industry-probes-economic-impact-of-crypto-bill-515967
     
  22. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    Oz opposition caves, offers encryption backdoor compromise
    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/11/27/oz_decryption_legislation/
     
  23. Minimalist

    Minimalist Registered Member

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    Everyone will use encryption, Australia should get over it: UN Special Rapporteur
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/every...lia-should-get-over-it-un-special-rapporteur/
     
  24. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

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    By AFP on December 04, 2018
     
  25. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    That sounds like a great reason to not do business in Australia :)

    But of course, I get the need, given high latencies to most everywhere else. But maybe there are opportunities for Singapore etc.
     
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