The Bottom line folks

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by trjam, Aug 3, 2009.

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  1. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

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    I am posting this here as this is a AV forum for the most part. I, like a lot of you have really grown to be very fond of this place and its members and mods. Now lets set that aside as we all agree on it.

    I have been coming here for a few years and for basically this place taught me the difference between a worm on my computer and a worm on my fish hook. I can never, repay the knowledge I gained here, the friends I gained here, and the family I lost because I always come here.o_O

    But I , like quite a few here want to see more of the old and less of the new. Unfortunatly that takes more moderation and some dont like it. We have some very astute members who use to frequent this place who seem to now only wander in and out. The fantastic perspective they brought was endeared by all and now, missed by all. I am not going to mention names but you know who you are.

    Nowadays, what I see are nothing more then, "My thang is bigger then your thang," threads. And i count my pitiful self in on that. We are so disaray with what the forums were created for that personally, Paul should send all of us to the time-out room. This forum is about products, not todays products, or this hours products, or this minutes products, but plain products. We, I, treat them like underwear. Today I love ya, tommorow screw ya. This is wrong. We have vendors now jumping through hoops to please members, I, here, and that is not what either are suppose to be doing. It is wrong, just plain frigging wrong.

    This has become a show for some, I, and new members I am sure feel they stand no chance asking their questions with the teaming up we are all guilty of. I love this place, but have actually done more harm then good. Who else can honestly look in the mirror and say the same, because if you cant, the mirror cracks.

    We need to get back to reporting on factual material on products for others, ditch the damn avatars and try our best, to actually help someone. And this is where moderation comes in. A heavy hand, is still a hand.

    I, will be the first to step up and say that professionalism should guide my posts and nothing else. Can you? And maybe, just maybe, some of those old time friends that helped us, might return.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2009
  2. StevieO

    StevieO Registered Member

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    Hi, i know exactly what you mean. I've also noticed a lot of previous members are AWOL, but that could be for a variety of reasons we are not privvy too. I myself was away for some time due to illness, and on my return saw a lot of new members, which is nice, and also wondered where quite a few of the existing ones had gone, which i missed. I'm positive a lot has to do with the closure of the 10-4 thread, remember that. Even though it helped to create a sort of family atmosphere, i think some felt it often strayed away from the main modus operandi of this place. I noticed a consistent drop off of members posting in the regular threads after that, and then they slowly dissapeared altogether.

    I suppose though, as in life generally people come & go, and we don't always know why. But change is life, as much as we often wish things would stay the same, life means change. We are not always in full control of events, but if we can influence things as & when, in a positive way, then it's all good in the long run.

    I also admit, in the past i may have been over ambitious at times, and yes, made mistakes too. I hope i've learnt from the past and that now my posts/threads are better presented etc. Not that i feel in the past they were all crap lol, but i'm sure you get me.

    As for the new products Vs old. Well, ALL these existing ones were at one time new. Wilders has always been a good place for finding out about new stuff, and for people willing to try and test things, and then post about their experiences etc. And lots of screenies to accompany them sure do help.

    I agree about the fanboy/girl thing though, but as i know myself, it's very easy to get attatched to things that you like, and are a proven asset. It's therefore only natural i guess to want to spread the word, and hopefully assist others in sharing ones good fortune, especially if it's free.

    Yeah, it would be nice to see some old names return, who knows maybe they will now, hope so.


    Don't know if this thread should be in AV, as it could apply equally to all software. I'm sure Admin/Mods will relocate it to a nice home, if required.


    Edit - Forgot to upload " someones " avatar lol.
     

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  3. TonyW

    TonyW Registered Member

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    Some interesting points, but one could say you're almost as guilty as others, especially when it comes to switching avatars on your anti-malware product of the moment. I personally don't bother with avatars or signatures; in fact, I have blocked the signatures from appearing in posts. I may switch off avatars. I'm more interested in what people have to say, not what their avatar is or their quote of the day or whatever.

    Having said all this, times change, technology changes. People's views will change hand in glove with that. Interest wanes for whatever reason; it's the same in other areas of the internet. Other things may gain their interest until something else comes along or not at all leaving those users preferring to get back to the "real world".

    Moderation is based on whatever policies they have set in place. Anything against the grain will be picked up, and often it is, such as the product x versus y threads. Paul and his team decide the foundation for a smooth running of these forums, and they do a great job.
     
  4. Wildest

    Wildest Registered Member

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    Brother, I am not sure if I could have made a better response.

    IMO, the OP is nostalgic for the "old, better days".
    For the last 15 years I have made my living through IT, from Sun workstations and various BSD flavors, to "Big Iron" (anyone here familiar with RACF? lol) and the pathetic Windows platform.
    Those days are gone, even though personally I wish they could return.

    IAC, IMO Mr. Wilders and his moderators do an excellent job at providing an oasis in this ever-changing desert.
     
  5. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    No, he, as well as I am nostalgic for the days before "flavor of the month" syndrome took hold here. Perhaps he's also sick and tired of the arguments and personal issues between members flaring up in otherwise very well thought out, informative threads. Anything he and everyone else is guilty of I also plead my guilt. It's getting insane around here with the sarcastic remarks, completely uninformed opinions that are supposed "facts because I say so", and outright fights among a select few (and boy could I name each and every one of the recent members).

    This forum is getting out of hand, and it isn't because it's not moderated appropriately. If I were one of the mods here, I'd be pulling my hair out. Enough with the "basement tests", AV-Comparatives and all these other tests are there for a reason. Do you really think if all these professional tests weren't "realistic" enough that they'd still be continuing and be well regarded? The little personal experiments and "my test method is better than yours" crap doesn't make these tests less effective or wrong.

    Let's take for instance the recent Avast thread. In that thread, a highly infected system led someone to believe Avast was "crap", and that was a "fact". How about wondering why in the name of God all those infections were there to begin with? Avast sure as hell didn't put them there, and no one in their right mind is going to believe ANY well known antivirus is going to miss that many infections. Okay, running off on a tangent here, but those are the kinds of threads I am including in this rant. It ran right into the ground with the ever present "I've been doing this longer than you so it's fact" BS.

    Absolutely nothing can come up in any forum at Wilders anymore without some know it all or smartass starting something. Look, we all use different products for our personal needs. If you don't like the product I'm using, give me some insight into why, don't come at me with that "because I think it sucks" nonsense. If you can't show me REAL tests and REAL evidence to back up what you're spouting, do me a favor and save forum space by not posting about it, and I'll do the same towards your products. The mods are doing fine here, we need to moderate ourselves.
     
  6. Page42

    Page42 Registered Member

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    Your post is perfect. :thumb:

    The only thing I would add, by way of describing a large part of the problem around here, is that some members seem to never have had an unarticulated thought in their life.

    I see one member post a review and within moments, another guy jumps down his throat with... "I already posted that!". So what? What do you want, a prize for being first? I'd love to see people cutting each other a little more (or a lot more) slack. Think once, then twice, before pressing the Submit Reply button. What is your post contributing? Is it contributing? Are you part of the problem you like to complain about? And for some of the more prolific posters... it's okay to take a breather. Wilders will still carry on without your post. :) ;)
     
  7. xxJackxx

    xxJackxx Registered Member

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    I think we all are, but I am somewhat guilty of the "flavor of the month" problem as well. And the problem is, all of the products I have tried seemed great until I discovered their bugs. I have paid 3 user subscriptions for 3 different suites, all broken in some way. I was even thinking about switching again tonight to see if one of the other 2 vendors had fixed their issues, because I am tired of explorer.exe crashing when I right click on files. If I could find just 1 product that didn't screw up my machine in the interest of trying to protect it then I am sure that is would be easier to find something more interesting to discuss here, rather than trying to figure out how keep my machine safe and stable at the same time.
     
  8. funkydude

    funkydude Registered Member

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    Are you kidding me? I'm sick and tired of people that think they need to stay "loyal" to a product, what a joke. Anti-virus is just like going to the supermarket and buying a carton of juice. Hey look the supermarket is offering the exact same thing cheaper! But wait... I should stay loyal to the company I usually by my juice from..?

    In a way software like these has created "gangs" online. I mean, there are FAN CLUBS for an AV product? If people got more realistic about the product they are buying, we wouldn't need all this flaming "mine is better than yours" gang nonsense.
     
  9. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    Well, but Funkydude, whom among us does it truly hurt if one person decides to stay loyal to a product that works for them? No good, help, or change is going to come from talking down to them about their choice, which happens here daily. We can EASILY explain why some other product MIGHT suit their needs better without questioning their IQ, experience, or the like. We CAN do it, we just don't seem to WANT to.

    My "flavor of the month" comment should be explained further. By what I said, I didn't mean that trying out new products even though our current ones work was a stupid idea. I meant that when someone pops in with a new program, everybody and their brother jumps on it, and then two things happen:

    1. It's given about 15 minutes trial time before the flood of "Compared to such and such" posts start coming.

    2. A bunch of "it doesn't work on my system, this program sucks" posts come in right after.

    Once that happens, the arguments commence followed shortly by the "you don't know what you're talking about, my tests show..." and "I've been doing this for X amount of years and..." insult posts. All THAT needs to change, or otherwise good, knowledgeable people are going to add to the already missing posters. When that happens again, we shouldn't blame the mods, we should blame ourselves.
     
  10. entropism

    entropism Registered Member

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    One of the main reasons I can't really put 100% confidence behind the advice of this forum is because we can't do A vs B comparisons. I'm not saying threads like "Which is better, Kaspersky vs Eset?", but simple "Hey, don't install that $70 AV, it has REALLY bad detection rates compared to (insert free AV here)." Sometimes, the moderation goes WAY too far.
     
  11. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    If you've been around here a good amount of time, you can already answer your own question, and it has everything to do with the reason this particular thread exists. Also, if you need that kind of comparison (and indeed it is smart of you to look at them), that is what AV-Comparatives and the like are for. You bring that kind of thing down to forum level and it quickly turns into a cyber-brawl.
     
  12. kasperking

    kasperking Registered Member

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    huh the sudden moral goosebumps of the op and his rant against the newbies and a reviere for the good old days of ah ! those meaningful posts is quite an oxymoronic cliche and even a cursory glance at some of op's recent threads would vividly show.Sudden bouts of zen are meaningless unless sustained for period of time which the ranters have yet to show themselves
     
  13. RejZoR

    RejZoR Registered Member

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    It's not the same. When you get involved beyond just "buying a carton of juice", you usually get involved on a personal level. In my case it's avast! and the team behind it. Thats no secret. When you get to know the technology used in depth, you know the ppl behind it, the level of support they offer you and the feedback that they actually take note of (meaning when lots of your very own ideas in the end land inside the program).

    Imagine the situation where you know the ppl who made that juice, all the detail about production, maybe even your recommendations how to make it even better etc. It just wouldn't be the same.
     
  14. Wildest

    Wildest Registered Member

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    Who are you to say such harsh words about the op??
    You who have made 15 posts in half a year?
    It is devoted members like the op that make Wilders special, not "visitors" such as yourself!

    "Sudden bouts of zen are meaningless unless sustained for period of time"??
    Show a little respect and dignity!!
    :mad:
     
  15. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    Easy, easy :) Don't give anyone a reason to turn this thread into the very thing that's being complained about.
     
  16. ypestis

    ypestis Guest


    Wow! Profound! Just on the outside chance that I may have contributed to to some of the disarray,
    or failed to genuflect low enough to my betters,I hereby delete my account,and seek less rarefied climes!!
    It is a Forum guys,not a political party or religion.
    All of the self inspection and agonized self analysis is wasted, and better spent where it really matters.
    Ease up a little on the "I have forgotten more than you will ever know",The name dropping,ie Zook,Illya,Ect,The deification of certain member,ie,Kees,Easter,TRJAM,ect,and have a good time!

    Example:RejZoR',is you "pissing through the same quill" relationship with the Avast! Greats, supposed to trump the experience of a user with a infected machine and a fully updated Avast?
    In your mind,yes,in his?
    Hell NO!!

    Its been real,its been fun,but not real fun.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2009
  17. kasperking

    kasperking Registered Member

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    who am I : well a registered wilders
    15 posts not 5000 : look i have bored you less with idiosyncracies Dignity/respect :but ofcourse i don't think simply stating "practice what you preach" is disrespectful everyone here is entitled to his/her views ,within forum's rules though,so your prefrences/values/dislikes should never be the norm.Pangs of conscience should be able to transform onself and not just be a lip service or black-n-white fonts in a forum
     
  18. tipstir

    tipstir Registered Member

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    Frankly really doesn't matter what you use security protection today! Back in the early 90's when Norton AV was first release for DOS then Windows 3.11, Windows for WorkGroups 3.11, the big deal was to fight the current threat back then. Prior to that no really needed any protection. Throughout the years I've use pretty much what's been shown here on this forum and some not even mentioned. I might not have been here to post about it when this forum was created in 2002. I only found this forum when I was using NOD32 prior, now it's fine to share what we all use here so others can learn how and why to use them. But in all whatever works for you and why you think it works you can tell the masses here. No need to battle over it, just software use to protect your system from the newest threat out there.
     
  19. RejZoR

    RejZoR Registered Member

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    @ypestis

    Not sure what you wanted to say with that but you can't draw any realistic conclusion from something where you have almost no info. I can also say that Kaspersky sucks because it cannot detect anything, but i don't mention anyone that i never updated it and that i blocked its components with i don't know firewall or some other obscure "multi layer protection" program.

    From the understanding of it, he cleaned the system with updated avast!.
    This is telling me 2 things. Either avast! was disabled by the user or it wasn't updated. Otherwise he wouldn't be infected or at least not in such scale.
    Because it's, well impossible at best. Unless it was something from the file infectors class.
     
  20. Saraceno

    Saraceno Registered Member

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    Some people do invest more personal time in a program, loading it on others' machines, configuring the program. So that does translate into enthusiasm about a program, its developers, wanting to see it progress and continue to develop.

    Yes there's been some ego creeping into our posts, especially when we feel we've found the perfect solution. However, all the slagging aside, the underlying motive from us all is to 'try my setup, you'll be better off, it'll prevent you from problems'.

    But then again, we all have to take a step back and realise, no one program is the best for everyone, I mean, it depends on what criteria we're marking it on. We all have different brands of laptops/PCs, different programs running, and visit different sites.

    Although I've only been here for a short while (so I can't comment on how it was in the old days), I understand what the topic is trying to address. I don't think it's the good ol days people miss, more so, it's the fact this forum is probably much more popular than before, so it attracts a wider group of people, including say, some younger, or more fiery/enthusiastic people. Sometimes when a forum is more exclusive, not as well-known, it can be much more open to communication, more friendly and so on (well, that's what I've experienced on other forums I've been part of over the past 15 years).

    But as long as the moderators keep doing what they're doing, stopping things when they get too out-of-hand or too personal, I feel the long-standing members, developers and knowledgeable people will continue to frequent and post. Hey, even the moderators included, keep posting along with the new guys, as many of us look forward each day to seeing your input and contribution to the forum. :)
     
  21. thathagat

    thathagat Guest

    well sorry if it seems dis-respectful trjam sir! but this thread looks like..."my conscience is bigger than yours"
     
  22. Kees1958

    Kees1958 Registered Member

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    Dear Trjam,

    Some of the Dutch members now only occasionally frequent Wilders because of some of the issues you address. But this is something that has come with the increasing maturity of PC security.

    Two or three years I go I always checked whether there were post, because some very knoweledgeable members would provide tips on what filters to set for your FireWall, what registry entries to protect, what hardening to apply, less for AV's to be honest.

    There are three reasons why the content shifts from the usage (setup/confoguration) to what to use, IMO:
    1. OS are getting better and better, also software which helps to use you OS-ses build in defense (policy maagement) are getting more and more available (Norton's UAC tool, Surun, Sully's PGS), which reduces the need for third party solutions

    2. There is a lot of freeware of quality products, so it is easier to switch.

    3. The security products have evolved from straight counter measure products to intelligent more easy to use products. I had invested a lot of time in one of my first setups: Regdefend and AntiHook, you simply do not abondon all that knowledge and time invested. So this also would tend to refrain from switching and search for a solution when something could be bypassed. Which in its turn shifts the discussion from what you have, to how you use/configure it.

    Strangly most of the Registry/HIPS knowledgeable members are gone, a small group of SRP/Policy mgt minded members is still here and luckily some of the hardcore FW experts still visit or contribute to this forum, as some of the virtualisation pioneers.

    "What has been is passed, so live with the new present"
     
  23. Retadpuss

    Retadpuss Suspended Member

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    I have frequented Wilders for about 8 yrs (I think) in various guises. Back then as the previous poster points out, the IT (MS / internet) world was different and therefore, so was Wilders.

    Wilders is still a useful place, but with the increased sophistication of many security products, you just dont need all these esoteric and obscure / niche security apps etc - but I still see members here with dozens of apps in their signatures.

    I must say, I find it a very controlling place as well - there is a set agenda and many truths are ignored, to the detrement of the forum.

    Puss
     
  24. risl

    risl Registered Member

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    Perhaps it's just the "community feeling" that is fading away when people come and go and only make occasional posts. There's not much deeper conversations or mature debates. Only people asking help for a problem or asking for suggestions what products they should use. Then there are the periodical "security product X was updated to version Y" -topics.
     
  25. Judge Dee

    Judge Dee Guest

    I originally joined this forum in 2003 under a different name before leaving the internet for a couple years.
    I remember, and you can check it out, threads that became vicious arguments between software developers.
    They were interesting because of all the technical information, but oh boy were they mean-spirited.
    Nevertheless, at least they had technical information, not babble like "Microsoft s***s, AV 1 stinks, etc, etc".

    And I miss them a lot!
     
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