Test your SSDs or risk massive data loss, researchers warn

Discussion in 'hardware' started by ronjor, Mar 1, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ronjor

    ronjor Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Posts:
    57,797
    Location:
    Texas
    http://www.infoworld.com/t/solid-st...isk-massive-data-loss-researchers-warn-213715
     
  2. Cudni

    Cudni Global Moderator

    Joined:
    May 24, 2009
    Posts:
    6,956
    Location:
    Somethingshire
    Not good at all
     
  3. roger_m

    roger_m Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2009
    Posts:
    5,250
    That is bad news. I'm actually glad now that large capacity SSDs are well out of my price range, so am still using hard drives.
     
  4. guest

    guest Guest

    Well, I live in the so called 1st world and there are no power losses here normally. I mean none. As in: at all. - But I had a few months ago a bad experience with some neighbor who managed to stop my power (the control panel is freely accessible here). He did that 3 times in approx. 10 min. while my computer was running before I figured out what happened and was able to tell him to better stop this mad behavior or else.

    Bottom line: I feared data loss of course but nothing happened that I know of, computer worked fine after that and still does! *puppy* - And then again: I can't remember any other power losses here in my area and for sure not in an amount like they have them in certain areas of USA (if one can believe newspapers about that). That might have something to do with power lines being installed below ground level.

    I use a OCZ Vertex 2. And if I'd fear data loss I wouldn't step away from SSD but have an alternative power source available that kicks in if something happens. But it isn't necessary here. :)

    But yes, if the study is legit vendors should implement something in SSD's that stops this from being a problem! - Again: to me it wasn't so far in real life experience. And people who are stating they stay out of fear on HDD have probably never seen a system running on SSD and/or have read too much on forums talking about troubles. :) There is simply no going back to that old and slow technology, once a speed junkie, always you are. ;)

    Btw: if I were a HDD vendor I would probably try to spread rumors about SSD's being still unreliable or would fund certain studies. But that's just a thought and no conspiracy theory. :D
     
  5. Krysis

    Krysis Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Posts:
    366
    Location:
    DownUnder
    I hope there is more research done on this aspect! A search of the net reveals very mixed outcomes on the results of mains power failures on SSDs – with some, (including myself) having no adverse impact, whilst others have had serious problems.
    I guess it may depend on what 'activity' the SSD may have been doing at the time.

    Still..... I have recovered my battery pack from the bottom drawer where it has been languishing for the past 2 years - and re-inserted it back into my Notebook to be used as a UPS!

    (At least now it's serving a useful function!) :D
     
  6. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    I think this is a ridiculous, fear mongering study.

    That's like force feeding a lab mouse 5 pounds of salt 10 times a day then, after the mouse's blood pressure explodes, report that too much salt is bad for you. No duh!

    ANY storage device is subject to data loss during a power outage. That's why all computers should be on a "good" UPS with AVR. And I emphasize "good" because a cheap UPS may not have a fast enough "cut-over" time to prevent power fluctuations in the PSU and a cheap UPS may not have as sophisticated voltage regulation as the better UPS.

    Note the ATX Form Factor standard for PSUs requires a PSU "voltage uptime" of just 19ms. That means any power drop that lasts longer than 19ms will cause the PSU to drop out, resulting in a system crash. And 19ms is around 10 - 15 times faster than the blink of an eye.

    What does 1st world have to do with it? Do you think Mother Nature is no match for the power grid in "developed" countries?

    I live in Nebraska, in the Heartland of the United States which I assume you take is a "1st world" country. But note Nebraska is also located right in the middle of Tornado Alley where severe weather, and power outages are not uncommon.
     
  7. guest

    guest Guest

    I said -> "so called" (!) 1st world country, right? ;) Meaning: not necessarily by me!

    I merely wanted to express my disbelief of power losses being still a severe problem nowadays in the most areas called .. see above. Basically challenging the value in reality of this study! Nothing else was implied. But I understand that certain countries and regions don't have underground power cables (for financial reasons mostly I guess, it's here the same in more rural country sites!) so that they are - also in terms of power loss - much more affected by mother nature as we are here in big cities. The new stupid and expensive energy policy may change that soon though, stability from decades may be gone. We'll see. Recent problem is exploding price, not stability. :(

    I am so sorry that - according to that study - you should not use SSD's if you experience power losses .. or so they say! *puppy*

    But with HDD you have the same problems, data can be destroyed too and also by power losses (I had that experience once or twice in the past!). And if a hurricane is approaching you have probably much bigger problems than worrying over your computer, right?

    I say again in other words from my personal experience so far:

    this study seems (!) to me like maybe a last desperate attempt of slowly dying HDD industry to stop what is of course not to be stopped anymore: their demise. - It was the same with draisine. :D Approx. 100 years ago a new thing and then soon .. forgotten. :cool:

    On the other hand: if I had lost in the past all my data due to loss of power (!) on my SSD I would make backups every hour or so. ;) - Right now I swear I am having no backup at all, that should be evidence enough of either my stupidity or my trust in SSD technology or maybe both. :D

    Bottom line: SSD is the best and most useful thing I ever installed in my PC. - I had power losses, nothing happened! But I don't make studies, just being a normal customer, right. - I say: stop being afraid if you are not in danger. :D
     
  8. pajenn

    pajenn Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Posts:
    930
    what software should we use to test our SSD?

    I already have SSDLife, which says the drive is healthy, but then it also says:

    "Unfortunately, it's not possible to display accurate drive health and lifetime values, since your model of SSD drive does not provide detailed wear out information."

    I have Samsung SSD 830 Series drive.
     
  9. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    Well, I would hesitate to call you stupid, but...

    It is silly (very risky) to assume you don't need a recent backup of personal data. Data loss results from many causes, not just storage device failure or power outages. Most notable are (1) user cranial flatulence, and (2) computer theft.
     
  10. WilliamP

    WilliamP Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2003
    Posts:
    2,201
    Location:
    Fayetteville, Ga
    I have 3 systems with SSD's . I built the 3 with good power supplies and I use UPS's on all 3. Also I installed conventional HD's in the system to back up to. I love the SSD's.
     
  11. guest

    guest Guest

    True reason for me not having a backup: to many large data files on my external HDD and me hesitating (being to lazy mostly :D) buying a new one. ;) - And maybe I like also the risk (adrenalin :D ), but of course it IS stupid to have no backup, no doubt about that! :) - I guess I will soon delete some stuff and then I'll have one. :p

    And don't test so much people, especially don't benchmark all the time (I never did this, maybe that's the reason my SSD makes no trouble? :cool:) ... and if Harddisk Sentinel really would show a failing SSD if there was a problem one time in future ... I have to see it before I believe it. ;)

    Don't worry, be happy (with your SSD) and make backups. ;)

    And one thing that is maybe different from custom systems: I don't use hibernate, sleep or any sort of that technology. The reason for that of course is what I read on forums and also that I hate of course unnecessary write operations on my SSD! If I don't use the computer for more than 1-2 hours I simply shut it down. Maybe that is the way to have fun for years with SSD? ;)
     
  12. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    And of course, malware too.
     
  13. guest

    guest Guest

    I personally don't have (detectable) malware! :D - Not for many, many years. Hence I always go for the lightest AV setup and this is for me right now Webroot Secure Anywhere. - But yes, it's is in my opinion more likely you destroy your windows installation on SSD through malware than through power loss. But who knows, there is that study, right? :D
     
  14. xxJackxx

    xxJackxx Registered Member

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2008
    Posts:
    4,052
    Location:
    USA
    I think it is too. Anyone that can be bothered to care about their data...
    1. Has a battery backup.
    2. Runs regular system backups.
    Especially in an enterprise environment. ANY storage system can fail, SSD or otherwise. If you ever have a massive data loss, the disk subsystem of your computing device is not to blame. You are. :D
     
  15. J_L

    J_L Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Posts:
    8,516
    Well, my SSD's are on mobile devices, which have batteries in case of power outages. Intel Rapid Storage Technology keeps an eye on it.
     
  16. Noob

    Noob Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Posts:
    6,468
    Wow really?
    I just had a 5 hour power outage last week, seems like SSD's are not for me . . . at least not now. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    The duration of the power outage is irrelevant. The issue is all about the sudden loss of power. How long it is gone once loss does not matter.

    In any case, your power outage simply illustrates the need for a good UPS with AVR and NOT a need to avoid SSDs.
     
  18. wat0114

    wat0114 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Posts:
    1,985
    Location:
    Canada
    From the article:

    Yep, 3000 power loss cycles is typically what an SSD will endure over a few years of real world use :rolleyes:
     
  19. Noob

    Noob Registered Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    Posts:
    6,468
    I know its irrelevant hahahahaha. :D

    3000 power loss cycles . . . insane :rolleyes:
     
  20. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    No it isn't!

    Do not confuse power loss due to "power outages" (the point of the article!) with graceful shutdowns initiated by the user at the end of his workday. A power outage occurs when lightning knocks out the power grid, a fallen tree takes out the lines, or someone trips over the power cord yanking it out of the wall.

    Note it says, "when power is cut unexpectedly during operation"!

    DO NOT FALL FOR THIS RIDICULOUS, FEAR MONGERING STUDY!

    I live in Tornado Alley - famous for severe thunderstorms, tornadoes, and power outages, and it would still take 100s of years to get any where near 3000 "unexpected outages".
     
  21. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Posts:
    2,331
    Location:
    West Yorkshire, UK
    Very sensationalised article.

    Even one of the HDDs (which was not as extensively tested as the SSDs) also failed.
    The SSD that totally failed - I suspect manufacturing fault, no follow up investigation to find out why.

    Cheers, Nick
     
  22. wat0114

    wat0114 Registered Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Posts:
    1,985
    Location:
    Canada
    @Bill,

    I think you missed my sarcasm ;)
     
  23. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    :( With no facial expressions or tone of voice for clues, that's easy to do in technical discussions.

    At any rate, I think that article simply illustrates the downfall of ethical journalism by hyping up a study that deserved no attention in the first place.

    If it is never likely a SSD in a critical data center will be subjected to 3000 unexpected power outages during its lifetime why do the study and why report on it?

    It seems to me the study should show why their power is so flaky.
     
  24. Krysis

    Krysis Registered Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2012
    Posts:
    366
    Location:
    DownUnder
    The report actually said the 15 SSDs were subjected to a TOTAL of 3,000 fault injection cycles – not 3000 per each SSD!
    I know this is still a huge number of power failures - even for the whole lot – but they also stated:
    ''another suffered one third of its blocks becoming inaccessible after 8 fault cycles''

    The SSD which was 'bricked' occurred after 136 fault cycles.
    I agree with Bill – you would need to live in Tornado alley (and suffer repeated and regular strikes) to amass anywhere near even this number of power failures over the life of an SSD.

    My take on the report is that it does raise some doubts on SSD behaviour following power failures and that more research is needed to provide a sufficient base from which to make more reasonable assessments.

    The other negative aspect of the report is that it is being used by various sources as a kind of 'red flag' against SSDs – it will be interesting to see what reaction, if any, is made by the SSD makers!
     
  25. Bill_Bright

    Bill_Bright Registered Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Posts:
    2,272
    Location:
    Nebraska, USA
    Right - which is what I was referring to with my comments about unethical journalism.

    A good journalist seeks and reports the truth.

    Yep, good catch. Thanks for pointing that out. Still, as you noted, that's still a big number - 200 average unexpected outages per device - WAY MORE than any PC should ever be subjected to in a real world scenario. ESPECIALLY in a data center environment which should have not only backup and regulated, uninterruptible power, but controlled environments (temps, humidity, dust) - AND a real IT person/department monitoring it all too.

    I note ronjor included a critical line in his initial quote - "The paper did not specify which vendors' drives were used." I would hardly claim all SSDs are created equal.

    A valid test, in my mind, is to subject both SSDs and HDs to the same "unexpected" power outages. Then analyze for lost data/corrupt devices.
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.