Technology of Multi-Snapshot

Discussion in 'Returnil Betas' started by Werderforever, Nov 9, 2010.

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  1. Werderforever

    Werderforever Registered Member

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    Hi Mike,

    I am trying Returnil Multi-Snapshot and I am very satisfied with it.

    Could you say whether the Multi-Snapshot will be integrated in actual Version RSS 2011 or in next Version 2012?

    And makes it sense to activate Virtualization of Returnil when I am using Multi-Snapshot? I think, when using Multi-Snapshot, I don´t need Virtualization, or go I wrong with my minds?

    I am very interested into the technology. In another Post I have read, that it is not Disc Sector Mapping like Rollback Rx, EAZ-Fix, CTM and other.

    But is it possible to say at the moment what it is?

    And very interesting is for me, what are the significant advantages compared to Rollback Rx and other programs like that?

    Many thanks for some information...:)

    Thomas
     
  2. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    The RMSE is part of enhancements we are working on for future versions of RSS and its System Restore feature.

    It should work as the snapshotting is done using our virtualization technology and not VSS or other methods.

    Mike
     
  3. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    I am also interested to know about this. Any one pls?

    Thanks
     
  4. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    It uses part of the same virtualization technology we use in RSS/RVS.

    Mike
     
  5. aigle

    aigle Registered Member

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    Thanks.
     
  6. Werderforever

    Werderforever Registered Member

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    You have said, that you use your virtualization technology for Multi-Snapshots.

    Does this mean, that virtualization is active across a reboot similar to Acronis Try & Decide which modifies the MBR?

    And what are the advantages compared to Disk Sector Mapping Technology like Rollback?
     
  7. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    No, it is not similar to ATI or ATD and does not use the old technique of modifying the MBR. Think of it this way: If RSS/RVS can track specific changes and then cause those changes to either be dropped or saved to the real disk as required, a snapshot of the entire System would be just scaling this up to the entire System rather than specific changes in user targeted files/folders which is actually harder when you look at what is being done.

    The main disadvantage is the way the virtualization is used. Time and what is going on with the system are the root cause of problems with the parent technology RBRX and similar clones use.

    The virtualization used by RBRX is designed to keep the virtualization continuous across restarts, keeping the system static over the same time period whereas RVS/RSS is targeted on the current virtual session and what happens on the system is transitory, being lost at restart of the computer. This immediately tells you that the differences in required cache space are vastly different and that over time, the RBRX cache is going to fill up significantly faster than the RVS/RSS cache by default.

    So how does this relate to the RMS Utility?

    The RMS Utility takes pictures in time which are more akin to a backup of that moment rather than the "movie" RBRX and other clones are "recording" continuously. This means that when the cache space runs out you can restore to the last proper snapshot that the RMS Utility created with no loss of data from that time or potential for what is stored in that snapshot to be damaged. With RBRX (and others) you run into a greater risk for damage or data loss when the "movie" suddenly stops or the computer crashes.

    So for RBRX running for 30 days and the computer crashes, what was being recored over those 30 days would be lost. With RMS Utility, you loose the current boot session and have the opportunity to restore that file or files you were working on to a time (presumably) just prior to the crash.

    To summarize: It is really a matter of space used, time, and the fact that as more time passes, it is more likely to loose or damage changes with the RBRX approach than it is with the RMS Utility approach.

    Mike
     
  8. Werderforever

    Werderforever Registered Member

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    Hi Mike,

    that´s very interesting for me. I have read your words several times.

    Many thanks for your effort!
    But it´s not easy to understand, perhaps my English is not good enough.
    I´m not sure, does RMS Utility can restore the system to a point b e f o r e the actual session (like Windows System Restore oder RBRX can) or can RMS restore only files and not the system itselfs?

    Thomas
     
  9. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    It can do both; full restore to a chosen snapshot and restore individual files from a snapshot AFTER at least one snapshot has been restored. In that scenario, it allows you to restore a file from the system that was just prior to the full restore.

    Mike
     
  10. Werderforever

    Werderforever Registered Member

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    Mike, many thanks for your help! :)

    Thomas
     
  11. Rilla927

    Rilla927 Registered Member

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    This sounds really cool, looking forward to this.
     
  12. PoetWarrior

    PoetWarrior Registered Member

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    This program looks very interesting. I'm trying it now and according to the interface this will be a stand alone program to purchase. Is that correct? I've been looking for a good snapshot program since FD-ISR folded.
     
  13. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    There will be a version of the multi-snapshot tool that will be available as a stand-alone utility that can be licensed in the near future.

    Mike
     
  14. PoetWarrior

    PoetWarrior Registered Member

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    Thanks for the update :thumb:
     
  15. Woody777

    Woody777 Registered Member

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    I have a license for the 2011 RVS System Safe. I am very impressed. I installed it with NOD32. I too am looking for a replacement for FDISR. Having moved to w7 x 64 I have felt constantly on the edge of disaster. I installed Keriver 1 clk Restore as I could find nothing else I felt confident in. It does work fine but is more imaging and less snapshotting. Plus it does modify the mbr, worrysome to me. I then installed RVS 2011 in a VM using W7 x 64 along with Comodo internet security . The application works great & the AV component is certainly welcome and works fine with comodos security suite. Having read this thread I thought I would try adding the snapshot utility. I installed it & it works very well with RVS. It takes a snapshot in seconds. So far no problems. Although the labs version of the snapshot utility seems to be 30 day trial. I'm pretty sure you can't purchase it quite yet but it seems to be a more than adequate replacement of FD-isr. I feel that the combination of the two utilitys really works out well.
     
  16. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    Yes, this is to control copies during the early beta phase. For longer term testing, simply uninstall and then reinstall the utility to restart the 30 day cycle. This will result in clearing any snapshots in the previous trial cycle so be aware of that when the time comes (keep a copy of the installer in case there is an upgrade in the interim).

    As mentioned, we are currently testing registration support and some initial modifications such as license expiration date in the GUI and automatic restore to most recent snapshot option (off by default) when needed or desired. Pending good feedback from the internal and external testing, the current version on the site will be updated as appropriate for further long-term public testing and feedback.

    Mike
     
  17. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Excellent News!

    Returnil products are always the best. Keep up the good work!

    Kind regards,

    KOR!
     
  18. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Excellent news indeed. Perhaps this is the future for those of us who are mourning the demise of FD-ISR and don't want to switch over to a Disc Sector Mapping program.

    A question for Mike: How does the System Restore feature of System Safe 2011 compare to this RMSE? Are they basically the same thing or does RMSE offer even more than System Restore?

    It's been a while since I've gotten this excited about a potential product being released! :cool:

    Acadia
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2011
  19. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    We always meant for RSS to eventually have two snapshot options in time. The first method is already implemented and is based on the native Windows Volume Shadow Copy feature. It has extras like the ability to restore specific files from the previous machine state following a System Restore...ANY system Restore.

    This means that even if you did not restore from the RSS GUI, when you restart, RSS will know about it and ask if you want to restore files from the previous state automatically.

    The RMS Utility is based on our virtualization tech and will be the basis for the eventual feature upgrade in RSS, but also as its own utility given popularity.

    Mike
     
  20. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Forgive me for not fully understanding all points about the differing technologies. Just one more question at this time:

    How does the System Restore of Returnil System Safe 2011 compare to the built-in System Restore of Windows 7, by that I mean, will Returnil restore only certain files and the Registry like Windows does or will Returnil restore the entire c:drive like FirstDefense did? Thanks for taking the time to keep answering my questions, Coldmoon, I believe I'm getting close to finally trying out this baby. :)

    Acadia
     
  21. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    Hi Acadia,
    The current provider in RSS is the Volume Shadow Copy service native to Windows as described previously, so in format it is the same as WVSC, but with an extra that allows you to recover specific files from the previous machine state just prior to the restore.

    You can think of this as a limited type of "undo" snapshot where a you can restore the system and then "un-restore" for specific files on the system. Say you just installed an upgrade to something, but it was incompatible and caused problems. Instead of returning to the entire previous machine state to fix the issue, you could simply restore key individual files to bring stability back to your setup.

    Further, the RSS VG provides a very efficient way to check your restore points before you "pull the trigger" on applying a chosen snapshot rather than having to wait while your other AV scans the entire system or create a specific profile to do manually what the VG does automatically within RSS.

    No. RSS does not work the same way as the old FD-ISR but will have the ability to restore to selective images once the additional provider is introduced. This does not mean however that the new version of RSS when available, will mirror or attempt to reproduce the approach in the old FD-ISR solution for a number of reasons I am certain you are aware of by asking the question the way you did. As this is still a work in progress, it will be a while yet before it is ready to be introduced publicly for general testing.

    Mike
     
  22. Baldrick

    Baldrick Registered Member

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    Apologies for asking but is there an active discussion on the Multi-Snapshot (RMS) proof of concept (for want of a better term)?

    I am testing it at present but see no signs of anyone else doing so or discussing it. Or am I just late to the party and it is going nowhere?

    Have to say at this point that RMS is very much what I am lookiing for and seems to be an excellent application but that as a proof of concept it does need some work to finish off, assuming that Returnil ever take the decision to produce a commercial product...which I very, very much hope taht they do.

    Balders
     
  23. Coldmoon

    Coldmoon Returnil Moderator

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    Hi Baldrick,
    The RMSU is a test bed for the snapshotting technology and will be incorporated into other projects the team is working on so we still need the feedback and suggestions you and other testers may have about the current utility, its performance, and most important, its reliability. Though performance is always a plus, the priority for any recovery tech is its stability and reliability over time.

    With popularity however, the RMSU could also become a stand-alone product in the future once the testing is finalized.

    Mike
     
  24. Baldrick

    Baldrick Registered Member

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    Hi Mike

    Thanks for that clarification. Will feedback to the developers on that basis.

    Fingers crossed that there is enough popularity to warrant a standalone product...beats Rollback Rx in a number of key areas IMHO.

    Regards



    Baldrick
     
  25. Nekromantik

    Nekromantik Registered Member

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    I hope you guys release this as a stand alone product. It seems much safer then Rollback RX. I do not wish you buy the full RSS just for this feature so a cheaper stand alone version would be awesome. :)
     
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