suggestions for the next version of TDS

Discussion in 'Trojan Defence Suite' started by hoju, Jul 27, 2004.

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  1. hoju

    hoju Registered Member

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    Can you make your next version of TDS a bit more user friendly?
    I tried to like TDS-3 but the interface is bloody horrible...there is so much crap that I wouldn't even need.
    How about a lite version? Something that will run in the memory checking for trojans and stuff like that -- not unlike a virus scanner....wow, now isn't that a great idea?
    I don't need any port scanning, ss3 script junk, or some bloody program greeting me with "Isn't it too late? You should be in bed by now you fool!"
    Is this too much to ask?
     
  2. paulson

    paulson Registered Member

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    Hi hoju, welcome to the forum, No, it's not too much to ask, but though we're not in a church here, why using the words bloody.. and crap.. You could 've been a bit more friendly. Other people think it's not a bloody interface but a funktional one. Why crap? Just 'cause you don't need it? Other people do so. Play around with tds for a while and you will see, you can configure it in a way, that it starts in a few seconds and only acts like "Something that will run in the memory checking for trojans and stuff like that -- not unlike a virus scanner...."
    Were talkin' about "The Trojan Defense Suite" here, suite means lots of stuff under one single interface. Don't care about the features you don't use or like, just use the rest. The detection rates are state of the art!

    paulson
     
  3. halcyon

    halcyon Registered Member

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    I wouldn't mind a better interface either.

    Being a usability UI professional with 12+ years of experience on the field, I must say that TDS does violate a big number of consistency rules, usability guidelines not to mention Windows User Interface Guidelines.

    I think the use of software could be made more easy to learn and to remember (even the advanced features) with better organisation, display and some re-naming.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the program and I'm a registered user, but the UI is definitely not its strongest part.

    Also, while on the subject of suggestions, could we finally have the option to turn off the features that require Agentsvr.exe?

    I've already inquired about this twice and there is absolutely no need on my computer to run another potential security hole (agentsvr.exe). I just need Trojan defense, that's all :)

    friendly regards,
    halcyon
     
  4. gerardwil

    gerardwil Registered Member

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    I wouldn't give TDS a price for a user friendly interface. For an average home user (in my country) it will be even almost impossible to use the program and to do his/her thing. I wonder if this changes in 4.
    That said I personally like TDS, but will make a descision to buy or not to buy till the new release comes out.

    Gerard
     
  5. Pilli

    Pilli Registered Member

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    Hoju you can edit the swear words from your text as some ppl find it offensive and it is certainly unnecessary?

    TDS4 will come in at least three versions, rebuilt from the ground up including new GUI's

    1. resident guard, set it and forget it, for people such as hoju
    2. stand alone scanner
    3. TDS4 Pro version which features are yet to be finalised

    Pilli
     
  6. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

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    hoju,
    This is a public forum where people of all ages and nationalities visit, please respect that and choose your words more carefully in future - there's simply no need for language like that, thankyou.

    TDS3 was designed for advanced users and provides infinitely more capability than any other anti-trojan system available, offering you a lot more options to fight back with if you ever become infected. Having said that, novice users will still find it easy to use if you simply ignore functions you don't need, and follow instructions on how to get the most out of TDS3 with the least effort, such as this thread - "TDS: Extremely powerful, but also very easy to use": https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=12743

    > I don't need any port scanning
    Many system administrators do - when they find a trojan listening on a particular port they can then easily scan their local network to find other infected systems very quickly.
    > ss3 script junk
    Scripting allows advanced users to extend the capabilities of TDS3 even further, limited only by their imagination. A lot of people add suggestions to wishlists, but with the scripting capability a lot of users can add their own features.
    > or some bloody program greeting me
    I don't see what's wrong with a program saying hello, especially as it has no impact on functionality. It's clear from your choice of words that you're not big on courtesy or manners, but we've never had any requests from users to remove that feature.

    TDS4 isnt very far away, and the on-demand scanner and resident guard will be especially easy to use and I'm sure you'll find their interfaces and functionality to be exactly what you're after, but TDS4 Professional will still offer the user a wide variety of system analysis tools, as even though you may not want such capability, advanced users do.

    Regards,
    Wayne
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2004
  7. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    I want my TDS4 to have a million options/uses and capabilities for me to explore, like my TDS3!!

    I've never had ANY application whatsoever which is capable of so much.
     
  8. Wayne - DiamondCS

    Wayne - DiamondCS Security Expert

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    Detox :)

    Many scanners (anti-virus and anti-trojan) are virtually just "Click here and I'll tell you if I think you're infected", but they're absolutely useless when it comes to detecting new and undetected trojans that arent in its database, and trojans modified to bypass scanners. TDS3 Pro puts you in the pilots seat, arming you with dozens of different system analysis tools that can then be called upon to examine your system to find something that all scanners may miss.

    Although TDS4's resident guard and on-demand scanner won't offer those tools, TDS4 Pro will (basically as an advanced version of the on-demand scanner). The main goal of TDS4's resident guard and on-demand scanner is to 1) utilise as much of our new technology as possible to arm the user with the most powerful trojan detection systems ever created, whilst 2) still being easy enough to use for even the most novice of users. TDS4 Pro is still a fair way away though - the on-demand scanner and resident guard will appear first. They'll be out very soon and we're very much looking forward to the release.
     
  9. Detox

    Detox Retired Moderator

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    Hmm.. when TDS4 is ready, so am I ;)

    edited to add - pro, that is, I reckon :D
     
  10. tutankamon

    tutankamon Registered Member

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    Hi all,
    As a registered TDS3 user I am entitled to a free upgrade to TDS4, yes?
    On the release of TDS4 Pro do we still qualify for a free upgrade or perhaps a discount?
     
  11. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    I am an average user in your country and i never had any problem of using the program since version TDS-2. The words with every menu option are clear, a complete help manual is included, two support forums and many places on internet where users give hands where asked, and support from the developer only an email away.
    Any user who can press a button or menu option can use this, even the possible underestimated or overestimated average users in our country.
    Think it's just a hype to call TDS-3 difficult for some reasons. Maybe because it's looking different.

    Tut, do you really think about life after TDS-4? The world will just stop and we might ever get back to reality with that next generation on our systems. What comes next? dunno, we need a plan, DiamondCS has a plan, more plans, lots of plans and working on more things then we'll ever know at this moment.
    Think they'll never ever mentioning any of their plans before it is really just around the corner for the beta testers, to avoid weekly and daily questions about it. They might be working with and testing TDS-6 while completing TDS-4 for us, we'll never know.
    Conditions? How to speculate on something not there yet?
     
  12. Kegel

    Kegel Registered Member

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    As a registered tds-3 user (and port explorer and PG ;) ) will I have a free upgrade to TDS-4 PRO or just the "lite" version?
     
  13. gerardwil

    gerardwil Registered Member

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    Quoting Jooske:

    ..I am an average user in your country and i never had any problem of using the program since version TDS-2. The words with every menu option are clear, a complete help manual is included, two support forums and many places on internet where users give hands where asked, and support from the developer only an email away.
    Any user who can press a button or menu option can use this, even the possible underestimated or overestimated average users in our country.
    Think it's just a hype to call TDS-3 difficult for some reasons. Maybe because it's looking different..end quote

    Jooske, the average HOME user I meant is the one who is e-mailing, playing games, p2p, chatting, downloading all kinds of stuff etc. Not to speak of using illegal copies of all sorts of software. I believe there are a lot users like that here, and almost everyone having a internet connection. I experienced that when they call me to fix their computers. What I see is that a lot of people have an AV running which is not updated. Running (if at all) firewalls that allow everything. No protection against spyware, adware, trojans, worms. Mostly they haven't a clue what I am talking about regarding to this. Never heared either of the existence of (security) forums. Same story when I am in the classroom.

    I dont know if there is a Dutch translation coming with TDS, but if not the English one will be an extra handicap. Though a lot of people understand English, the computer language is a bit different.
    Finally I dont understand what you mean with: Maybe because it's look different. Different from what?

    ..Jooske
    ^~_~^
    DiamondCS registered TDS/PE/WG/CS operator / beta tester / moderator..

    Jooske with these qualifications I can hardly see you as an average home user. Anyway regarding to TDS3.

    Quoting Wayne:

    ..TDS3 was designed for advanced users and provides infinitely more capability than any other anti-trojan system available, offering you a lot more options to fight back with if you ever become infected. Having said that, novice users will still find it easy to use if you simply ignore functions you don't need, and follow instructions on how to get the most out of TDS3 with the least effort..

    So if TDS installed the easy way for novice users are they as well protected as user with all bells and whistles active?

    All that said there are also a lot of users here who behave and operate their machines well. Try to find them to sell your products at least.
    Personally I like TDS.

    Greetings,

    Gerard
     
  14. Kegel

    Kegel Registered Member

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    Please don't "dumb-down" this program for the AOL crowd.
     
  15. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    Think the program itself is not more difficult then any ordinary scanner, for people who can press one or two buttons to get a scan.
    That people need some extra education generally spoken is very clear, which is in their habits of using a computer is responsible ways, but that doesn't make TDS too difficult, but might not immediately the first choice for people in their first steps in security.
    Read my story again in the "ThankYou Jooske-thread" which were my own first steps in any organised security at all.
     
  16. sard

    sard Registered Member

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    Contextual help would be great. I'm sure TDS3 is a very capable program but I only know how to use the "full system scan" button :D
     
  17. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    As long as you don't forget to use the "Update TDS Databases NOW!" option too or have it confirured as "Auto-update" then you know the most important parts to start with. don't you think?
     
  18. halcyon

    halcyon Registered Member

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    We can argue about the "difficulty of use" of a program till we are blue in the face and still have no agreement.

    A better way of getting some grip on this is to hire a professional usability expert, with several years of usability testing expertise and actually evaluate the product and not believe hearsay in forums from advanced geeks who are too deep in it to be of any use anymore as long as evaluations go.

    It's not hard to do and these days it is even relatively inexpensive.

    It will put all speculation to rest and tell you the cold hard facts about the ease of learnability, ease of use and ease of recall of your product (along with users/experts personal opinions, violations of operating system UI guidelines and usability heuristics).

    This is just FYI and I'm not selling my services to you.

    But having experience in this area I can tell you now, that the truth may hurt, but it only stings once and once you get over it, you product becomes ever so much better with each iterative usability correction.

    Finally, although I may sound like a nuisance for asking this the fourth time, can I please get an answer to this :)

    Are you going to make the AgentSvr.exe required features a user selectable feature in TDS-4 or not?

    I'd really wish you'd do this, if it's not too big a feature to implement.

    Friendly regards,
    Halcyon

    PS One basic heuristic to spotting usability problems: once you start tagging instructions to your tools afterwards or explaining that the tools "are not hard to use", it's an almost sure sign of underlying usability problems that need fixing. A help feature is not a fix, it's a band-aid. It eases the pain, but does not cure the ill.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2004
  19. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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    I'm an expert in fool-proof testing, without any instructions beforehand with new toys, or lots of instructions and see what to make of that. In case of doubt hire a 12-year old kid from the street for double testing. Always works fine.
     
  20. halcyon

    halcyon Registered Member

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    Jooske,

    no offence, but usability is a research and professional discipline with few decades worth of research literature published.

    It's not something that can be just pulled out of a hat by anyone off the street.

    One needs to use a methodology, know what to to test, with whom and how.

    At least, if one want results that are trustworthy and accurate.

    As such, I wouldn't give too much value to single user comments, especially when they come from advanced used like you :)

    I'm sure you can use TDS-3. I know how to use it too, but that is no proof about the usability of the software itself. People are able to learn notoriously difficult controls through repetition and sheer will of force, by adapting themselves to even to the most intricate and obscure controls.

    As you can see, that is by no means a proof that the controls or the system itself would pass even the lowest level of usability criteria.

    Best regards,
    Halcyon

    PS I'm not saying TDS-3 is a usability catastrophe or most obscure. I'm merely pointing out my professional opinion that it could be made much easier to learn, to use and to recall for beginners and advanced alike. It is the job of the software developer to decide, whether this merits any effort on their part or not.

    Furthermore, considering the known maxim that the weakest link in the security chain is almost always the human part, it would (imho) make sense to take into the fallibility of the user as well as possible, in order to deliver not only a secure product, but more importantly a secure USE of the product.

    the same
     
  21. dallen

    dallen Registered Member

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    I just want to go on the record to say that I do not feel that the language used in this thread was offensive in any way.

    paulson,
    You may hear worse in some churches.

    Maybe in some countries these are swear words, but certainly not in mine.

    Pilli,
    I want to clarify something for my own sake. If something you say offends me, does that constitute a swear word and thus should be deemed offensive and unecessary? Just curious.

    Wayne - DiamondCS,
    Please don't mistake my desire for clarification as a lack of respect. I do appreciate and respect the statement you made above. I just don't see the language used to be that bad. Maybe "c%$p" and "bl&%#y" are really swear words in other countries, I don't know.

    EDIT
    I corrected the grammatical error pointed out below by paulson. I had said "here" when I acutally meant "hear." Sorry about the oversight and thanks for the correction.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2004
  22. granduke

    granduke Registered Member

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    .
    Hehe..This thread is gettin' funnier by each minute passin'. :D
     
  23. Pilli

    Pilli Registered Member

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    Dallen, It does not bother me one iota but if it upsets others from other cultures then it is offensive and this is an International board not an American or British one.
    There is no need for rudeness in whichever language is used.

    Pilli :)
     
  24. paulson

    paulson Registered Member

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    hi guys, to make a long story even longer and playin' around with the "quote" thing and to treat granduke
    I agree with you dallen, personally I absolutely do not feel offended or touched by words someone is using. I just wanted to explain to the guy that this wasn't the best start he can have with his first post in a forum.

    I asked my girlfriend (she's canadian) w.t.h. did he want to say to me? She said "fantastic grammar, he must be american) - that's kinda funny, ain't it?

    If you mean here=> hear ; unfortunately you're completely right :D

    That's the way it is.
    Have a nice weekend

    paulson

    Now I' gonna take a napp 'cause some english guy is tryin' to wreck Tyson tonight. I don't wanna miss see him trying.
     
  25. Jooske

    Jooske Registered Member

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