Hello, I have an eight to nine year old system that I am considering adding a SSD with a fresh install of Windows to as it currently has only standard platter hard drives. My system is a HP Pavilion Phoenix SE a6655f PC. My research tells me that a SSD needs AHCI instead of IDE to operate correctly (including being able to perform TRIM operations). I am not very knowledgeable in this area and the best that I can tell is my current system is IDE. From my research, I am finding that I need to go into my BIOS and change SATA to either AHCI or RAID for a SSD to work properly. In my BIOS, all I see is the following settings: PATA Disabled Enabled (currently selected) SATA Disabled SATA 1 SATA 1 & 2 (currently selected) Judging from this, I am assuming that my system is not capable of AHCI. I tried searching for an update to my BIOS, but found no updates are available as the version that shipped with my system is the only available version. Now comes the question: I assume there is no way to make my system AHCI instead of IDE so a SSD would not have all of its functions if I were to install one. I assume that TRIM would not work and probably other functions that I do not know about. Does anyone have the knowledge to help me with this? Is installing a SSD even worth it on this system? Is there a way to install the SSD in AHCI that I do not know about? From all that I have researched, it is not advisable to use an SSD without TRIM which would mean using it with IDE is not a good thing. The way I am thinking at the moment is leave well enough alone and forget about the SSD. I just wanted to verify that what I have researched/assumed about AHCI being needed for a SSD to properly work (TRIM) is correct. Like I mentioned, before a couple of days ago I was totally ignorant on this subject and have came to a dead end in my research. Anyone with more knowledge that myself, help, or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance...
What version of Windows are you installing? Also see here: http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-3019471/ssd-work-ide-sata-mode.html
Kent, A few negatives but so what. If you have a spare SSD try it and see how the OS performs. If you don't have one get a cheap 120 GB SSD. That is plenty large enough. You should be able to Trim the drive with BIBM.
Hello, Thanks guys for your responses... @Triple Helix - Windows 10 Pro 64-bit. I am starting to think I will just leave this system as is and not upgrade it to a SSD. I see this system with 2 major drawbacks as far as a SSD: This system has only a SATA II interface that supports speeds up to 3Gb/s and does not have a SATA III interface that supports speeds up to 6Gb/s. This would downgrade the possible performance gains of a SSD by up to 50 %. I realize I would still see some performance gains more than likely but would not be able to benefit from the full performance gains available from a SSD. This system is only capable of an IDE SATA controller and not AHCI which is required to benefit fully from a SSD (both in performance and in lifespan). As a lot of people on here know, I am disabled and on a very strict budget. I think the wisest choice for me would be to save a bit more and start looking for a new or refurbished system. I would probably get more out of my money that way. Putting more funds into this system at this point would almost be like trying to save the proverbial sinking ship. There are more drawbacks to this system than just not being able to fully make use of a SSD. Even the nvidia drivers (video, LAN/network, storage, etc., are all legacy and not supported anymore) are outdated as I am having to use old Windows 8.1 drivers on this Windows 10 system which does cause a few glitches now and then. The LAN/network interface is only 100 MB not Gigabit. I was lucky to be grandfathered from a 100 MB line to a 300 MB line for the same price from my ISP (when ownership changed) of which this system can not make use of. Nine years of use and upgrading so far has been a decent investment (it came originally with Windows Vista) but it probably has become the time to move on to a new system. I think I should probably upgrade to a more modern system first and then worry about an SSD (heck, when I find another system, it may even come with a SSD). This would probably be the best way to make use of my limited funds.
Hello, Just thought I would add that I did decide to go ahead and purchase a new system and I should have it by the weekend, Monday at the latest. Thanks guys for the help as I was probably just trying to get a push for me to justify to myself for splurging on a new system (even though I blew my extra funds for the next several months)...
Kent, Thanks for the feedback. I assume your new system will be Win10 installed in UEFI BIOS mode. A new challenge for backups, but interesting.
Hello @Brian K, Yes, it will be a new challenge for sure. It is a Windows 10 Pro 64-bit system and I also assume it will be in UEFI BIOS mode. I know absolutely nothing about UEFI BIOS mode especially when it comes to imaging. I will be using Macrium Reflect 7 for imaging. I got the system at a very good deal from the Dell outlet and was lucky enough to find a new system at a refurbished price. It comes with a HDD but I also got a SSD separately. I should receive the system Friday and will play around with it over the weekend and next week until the Fall Creators Update is released. At that time, I plan to install the SSD and do a fresh install of Windows. I plan to do this mainly for two reasons, to get rid of all the preinstalled software and of of the Dell stuff which i really do not need. This will give me a clean system with a fresh install on a SSD to setup how I wish. I do plan to leave it in UEFI BIOS mode as I only single boot and really see no real advantage to going back to legacy BIOS. I am also interested in what security benefits may come with the change and just learning about UEFI BIOS in general. I will probably have to head over to the Macrium thread to ask questions and advice pertaining to both creating images and doing restores with Macrium on a UEFI BIOS system. I have only done imaging and restores with Macrium on legacy BIOS systems so I have no idea where to start. Will Macrium work fine "out of the box" or will I need to change some settings in Macrium? Will the procedures to do an image and to do a restore be the same or will I have to make changes there also? Will I have to do anything special when creating the boot option within Macrium or creating the rescue media? Will the boot option procedure change and if it fails, will the rescue media work the same or will it take a different procedure? As you see since my knowledge about UEFI BIOS mode and imaging in UEFI BIOS mode is practically zero. I know I will have at least these question and many more will probably come to mind as I move forward. If you have any knowledge or advice to give to a novice and beginner in this area in order for me to get started and be successful, it would be greatly appreciated. I am also hoping that Macrium has some good help articles in these areas of interest and that my transition to this new system will go smoothly. I do know that with both your help and knowledge and that of the Wilders community, the entire process will go smoother for me and I have a place to go for any issues and concerns that may come up.
Hello, I have a quick and probably stupid question but I have never done a fresh install of Windows using UEFI BIOS mode before (as my previous system was not capable of UEFI).. I know that doing a fresh install of Windows with legacy MBR mode (in a system not capable of UEFI), Windows knows this and the install is done using legacy MBR. I assume that on my new system if UEFI mode is set in BIOS then that is how the fresh install of Windows will be done. If for some reason I wanted to do a legacy MBR fresh install of Windows, I would need to set it to legacy MBR in the BIOS. Are these assumptions correct? I already know that since I will be installing a SSD that I will need to be sure that AHCI mode needs to be set in the BIOS...
Kent, When the new computer arrives use Macrium to create a Disk Image of GPT Disk 1. This backs up all partitions and the GUID partition table. If the drive fails this image can be restored to a new drive and Win10 will boot. Installing Win10 in UEFI BIOS mode is easy. Install to a blank SSD, no partitions. The install creates the partitions and on the "Where do you want to install Windows" screen you can adjust the size of the Win10 partition to your liking or leave it as default which will be full size. https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/1950-clean-install-windows-10-a.html https://www.eightforums.com/tutoria...e-firmware-interface-install-windows-8-a.html Some Dells have the SATA mode set to RAID. I'd change this to AHCI before installing Win10 to the SSD. Check the UEFI BIOS to confirm the Secure Boot mode is UEFI and the Compatibility Support Module (CSM) is Disabled. Some light reading on GPT... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/dn640535(v=vs.85).aspx Your Win10 install will create 4 partitions... Recovery 450 MiB EFI system partition 99 MiB Microsoft reserved partition 16 MiB Win10 your choice in GiB To install Win10 in MBR mode you would set the UEFI BIOS to Secure Boot mode "Other" (or Legacy) and CSM to Enabled. When you boot the Win10 DVD or USB you see 2 Boot Items for your install media. Choose the one that doesn't say UEFI.
Hello @Brian K, Thanks for the excellent post! I have glanced through the links that you provided and will fully explore them later tonight. Reading through your post, I have one quick question: What is CSM and why should it be disabled? I did some searching and think it has to do with supporting a legacy MBR BIOS OS on a UEFI system. Since that is not the case with Windows 10 as I understand it, that is the reason you disable CSM on UEFI but enable it on MBR. Is my thinking correct on this?
Kent, your thinking is correct. CSM is not needed for UEFI BIOS mode and if you have it enabled you will see double the number of items in the Boot Menu. The MBR ones will be present even though you don't want them. Which Dell model did you buy?
Hello @Brian K, Dell XPS Tower 8920 Spoiler: Basic Specs Processor: Intel Core 7th Generation i7-7700 Processor (Quad Core, up to 4.20 GHz, 8MB Cache, 65W) Windows 10 Pro 64-bit 1TB SATA Hard Drive (7200 RPM) 240GB Mushkin Reactor Armor3D 8 GB DDR4 UDIMM Non-ECC 2400MHz (2x4GB) NVIDIA GeForce GT 730 2GB DDR3 430 watt power supply It should give me plenty of expansion room for many years to come (I hope)...
That's nice. As you say, good for many years to come. I know the Dell XPS laptops have the SATA mode set to RAID. Maybe yours too. We can talk about this prior to the Win10 install. If you don't intend to RAID your drives, AHCI would be a better choice.
Hello @Brian K, I am sure it will be nice especially moving from an AMD Phenom quad core @ 1.8 GHz with an IDE SATA II hard drive and just about all hardware being legacy using Windows 8 drivers on a Windows 10 system... I got over nine years out of my old system so if I can get as much out of the new one, I will be very happy. I have been saving up for a new system for a while now and did not think I had quite enough money yet for a decent one. I got lucky and hit the Dell Outlet when they just happened to have a new (not refurbished) system for 45 % off their regular new price. It supposedly came from a system someone ordered and then cancelled before it shipped. Subsequently, it ended up in the Outlet at a huge discount. The ironic thing is that I paid a lot more (about $400 more) for the old system back in 2008 when it was purchased. I am sure that I will never use RAID so I will make sure that all my BIOS settings are correct as to the settings mentioned above before I do the fresh install.
When you install Win10 you can choose to Skip the license serial number. Your new Win10 will auto activate as your hardware has been "fingerprinted" by Microsoft..
Hello @Brian K, Thanks for all of the help, advice, and information that you have provided to me so far. It is very much appreciated as you have helped to reduce my anxiety levels about moving to a UEFI system considerably. I will let you know how it goes after the Windows 10 Fall Creators Update is published and I have done the clean install.
Another tip. Connect the SSD to SATA port 1 on the MB and disconnect the HD from the MB for the Win10 install. You can reconnect the HD after Win10 is up and running. Delete all partitions from the HD at this stage and you can run the HD as a MBR or a GPT disk. It doesn't matter for data with a 1 TB disk.
Hello @Brian K, Thanks. I read somewhere in the last few days during my research of IDE/AHCI that I should always connect the drive that my primary OS that I boot into is on to the lowest numbered SATA port. Some motherboards label them differently from what I read. On some the lowest starts at SATA port 0 (labeled 0 - 3) and other at SATA port 1 (labeled (1 - 4). So, depending on how my motherboard is labeled, I would connect my SSD to either port 0 or port 1 (whichever is lowest). Is this your understanding also?
Kent, I was nervous when I first started using UEFI BIOS mode. It is certainly different especially with the multiple partitions on the GPT disk. But when you have a Disk Image you can start to relax as any mistake on your part can be corrected by restoring the last good image.
Hello @Brian K, I must admit that I had a fair amount of anxiety over the last week since I purchased my new system. I think a lot of it was due to (if I remember correctly) all of the imaging issues that back-up programs had back when UEFI was first introduced to Windows. At the time, I did not pay much attention to it as I did not have any plans on purchasing an UEFI system in the near future and I subsequently never put forth much effort in learning much about UEFI either for the same reason. This week my knowledge has increased quite a bit and I definitely feel a lot more at ease than I did. A little bit of knowledge can go a long way...
Kent, no worries. In less than a week you will be totally relaxed with the system. Macrium has no problems restoring a Disk Image of a GPT disk to a new drive if the old drive has failed. If you have a Win10 software issue that you can't correct easily, just restore the Win10 partition from the Disk Image. Restoring the other partitions isn't necessary.
