Speed up TI with USB drives!

Discussion in 'Acronis True Image Product Line' started by jmk94903, Jan 1, 2007.

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  1. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    There are reports of very slow imaging or recovery using the TI Recovery CD when the backup is stored on an external USB 2.0 drive. Also, there are reports of slow recovery of the C: partition when the backup is on a USB drive. This is probably because the Linux drivers used on the TI Recovery CD and in the recovery environment for the boot drive are not well matched to the USB chipset on their motherboard.

    Installing a PCI USB 2.0 card (or a USB 2.0 PC card on a notebook) should speed these operations up greatly if the chipset on the add-on card is well supported by the Linux drivers used by TrueImage.

    In my experience, Adaptec USB 2.0 PCI and PC cards (NEC chipsets), are fast with the TI version 8 and 9 Recovery CDs.

    Has anyone tried this add-on board approach with systems that have "slow" backup or recovery times using the onboard USB 2.0 connectors?

    Are the Adaptec cards still fast with TI Home version 10 Recovery CDs?

    Which other brands of USB 2.0 PCI and PC cards are fast with the Recovery CD?
     
  2. Acronis Support

    Acronis Support Acronis Support Staff

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    Hello jmk94903,

    Thank you for choosing Acronis Disk Backup Software.

    We are sorry for the delayed response.

    Please note that we constantly update the current drivers included into the standalone version of Acronis True Image and add new drivers for a wide variety of modern hardware.

    Should you experience a problem with your hardware when accessing from rescue mode, please provide us with the exact vendor and model of the device you use, create Linux system information (sysinfo.txt) as it is described in Acronis Help Post. Then submit a request for technical support. Attach all the collected files and information to your request along with the description of the issue you have experienced. We will investigate the problem and try to provide you with a solution.

    P.S. Please also note that a possible workaround is to use a BartPE-based bootable CD created using Acronis True Image plug-in for BartPE and allowing one to boot the computer into a Windows-like environment loading the appropriate drivers for any hardware devices installed in the computer at startup.

    Acronis True Image plug-in for BartPE comes with the Acronis True Image installation and can be found in the
    \Program Files\Acronis\TrueImageHome\BartPE folder.

    Thank you.
    --
    Aleksandr Isakov
     
  3. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    I assume you are talking about driver compatibility rather than suggesting that PCI-USB is quicker than on-board USB?

    Since they are both southbridge interfaces, with the correct drivers I would not expect to see any significant difference between them.

    Apologies if I have misunderstood your point.

    F.
     
  4. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    You understand it correctly. If the PCI card has a different USB chipset (NEC for example which is well supported by Linux and TI) it could be much faster that an onboard chipset that is not supported well and runs at roughly USB 1.1 speed.

    I posted this because several posts reported very slow USB drive backups, and I thought this might be an easy and effective solution. As it turns out, no one seems interested.
     
  5. zzzz73

    zzzz73 Registered Member

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    Point noted. :D

    If I need to buy a USB 2.0 PCI card or PC card for the system that I need to backup using TI Home, I will consider those with NEC USB chipset first. ;)

    But, if I have existing USB 2.0 ports to use, I will hope that TI have no problem with the existing chipset.

    P/S: I bought TI Home to serve my purpose. Not the other way round - To buy TI Home in order to serve its requirements!
     
  6. mfabien

    mfabien Registered Member

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  7. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    If you want real speed backup from within Windows to a second internal hard drive. Such backups run faster than from a Bart or Acronis CD and there is no rebooting time.

    Restores from an internal drive to another internal drive are faster still. These take between one third to one quarter of the backup time. This holds true whether booted from the TI rescue CD or the Bart CD. Indeed because the TI CD boots more quickly it beats the Bart by a short head.

    The Bart CD only comes into its own when restoring from a USB drive. This can take up to four times longer if the standard Acronis rescue CD is used.

    None of these comparisons include validation times as I have no need for them.


    Xpilot
     
  8. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    with e-sata now becoming cheaply available I wonder what sort of speeds will be possible with Acronis. Has anyone had any success making images via e-sata ?
     
  9. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    According to my eSATA drive manual they quote the standard SATA transfer rates of up to 3GB/s. Since the eSATA connector plugs into a spare SATA connector or via a SATA PCI card one would assume it should run at HD speeds.

    I would give you a more real-world answer except the bracket with the eSATA connector that came with drive for mounting in the PC had an eSATA connector rather than a regular SATA connector on the free end.

    While trying to sort that out I came across a very interesting bit of info: A regular SATA cable connector is made for 50 insertion cycles. The beefed up one for eSATA devices is made for some number of thousands of cycles. No wonder SATA cables have been a weak link in the SATA system.
     
  10. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    you managed to get it to work with Acronis ? what model ?
    I can't see myself buying anymore USB drives and although a 500 gig Seagate looks good I'm still looking before buying.
     
  11. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Exchangable hard drive caddies are available for SATA drives. Those will feature in my next PC .
    That way of running will win the Acronis Grand Prix without a doubt. That is of course dependent on having good drivers [​IMG].

    Xpilot
     
  12. seekforever

    seekforever Registered Member

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    No, I couldn't connect it because the motherboard end of the cable was also a eSATA connector, not SATA. Like the TI restore, you don't know if it works until you do it, eSATA is in the same boat but if the eSATA drive is plugged into a regular MB SATA connector one would think it has a very good chance of working.

    I bought a Vantec enclosure and put a 320GB SATA drive in it. Because of the connector problem I am using it with USB2 only which isn't a big deal AFAIC because USB is on everything.
     
  13. foghorne

    foghorne Registered Member

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    Wow that's low. Let's hope the Mobo and Diskdrive connectors are made to last longer.

    F.
     
  14. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Another good reason to consider removable drawers for SATA drives.
    Depending on the make and grade the number of insertions and withdrawls can run into thousands.

    I have found that the total cost of ownership of three ATA drives in removable drawers to be less than the equivalent in USB enclosures.
    Plus of course the sheer convenience and the greater speeds possible.
    I have not yet shopped around for SATA drawers though I believe the costs are on a par with ATA.


    Xpilot
     
  15. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    O/T

    One thing that has put me off removable internal drives is the thought that they might run hotter ? my drives on various machines run between 28c and 30c.
    Is it still possible to use cooling solutions on such drives ? As to the 50 insertion cycle for internal drives - I can't really see that as a problem for most people. now for the e-sata connection there is a real need for the cable to work thousands of times.

    Although I'm still looking I'm almost certain to try out
    http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/datasheet/disc/ds_ext_esata.pdf

    Hopefully this will speed up TI and USB will be a thing of the past.
     
  16. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Cooling of exchangable hard drives is probably better than one fixed internally.
    The rack or caddy that holds the removable drive is usually fitted with one or even two dedicated fans.
    I cannot conceive ever going back to USB drives for my PC security.
    I will not bore you with a full list of all the advantages so here are just a few.

    Cooler, faster, cheaper, no extra power supply, Each extra drive can transform the rest of the hardware into a different computer, Recovery from a breakdown only takes the time of a re-boot.

    Xpilot
     
  17. tuttle

    tuttle Registered Member

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    That's very interesting. I appreciate reading these opinions. It seems to make a lot of sense to use removeable drives when your goal is to keep one or two of your own PCs backed up.

    In my case, I like external USB drives because I can backup multiple PCs, and also take the drive to client sites when needed. I find the portability and ability to connect to any PC to be useful features of USB drives.

    As for external power supply, I don't need one for my USB drive. Mine is a compact model that uses a 2.5" (I think) laptop drive, which is powered solely by the USB cable with no need for a separate power cable.
     
  18. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Agreed, I use exchangable drives on my own PCs. I have not abandoned my USB drives. I use them when away from base and for sorting out other computers.

    Xpilot
     
  19. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    I do like the idea - but

    cooler ? do you have any figures ?
    Faster ? yes agreed - which is one of the reasons for looking at the s sata Sesagate.
    Cheaper ? Here I have a problem. I run 5 desktops ( each with 2 internal hard drives) and 2 laptops. That would mean 12 extra hard drives on a shelf doing nothing. Right now I have pocket USBs ( feecom) with mutiple images and larger (300 gig) drives with even more.

    Recovery only takes the time of a reboot ? Undoubtedly true BUT since I first started working with computers ( 196:cool: I have yet to loose a drive in anger. To be fair we didn't have hard drives in 1968 but lets say since the mid 80's.
    Now at the risk of really angering the gods I can also say that I have not let in a virus unknowingly nor had anything more serious that a stale cookie enter -- so I don't really see being able to replace a drive in seconds as all that important from a practical point of view.

    I think I might try it one day though just for fun.
     
  20. Ralphie

    Ralphie Registered Member

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    Better knock on wood quickly. :D ... I think in a business environment, getting back up and running in the shortest time possible is desirable.
     
  21. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Sorry Ralphie that's not the way I look at it. We had a 5 hour power cut here a few days during stormy weather (wake up George Bush really is happening) and it was great to be able to take the day off. getting back up and running might take me 10 to 20 minutes if I dragged out the process - took a long lunch.
     
  22. Xpilot

    Xpilot Registered Member

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    Cooler, No figures just the heat sensing of my finger tips. The exchangable drives definitely are cooler to the touch. This is not surprising as the fitting where they go has its own dedicated fan.

    Try as I might I cannot reconcile with your figure of 12 extra drives for 7 computers.
    My example is for one computer. It has a main drive for the OS and data and a slave drive for backup images.
    Instead of using a USB drive I have an "extra" drive in a removable drawer. This is swapped with the main drive which is also in a removable fitting.
    The slave drive is not swapped. Should it breakdown it would then be replaced. Once its images have been used to update the main drive they are expendable.

    The extra hard drives do not sit on a shelf doing nothing. The are up to date ready to go bootable backups which will be bought into use at the next backup cycle.

    I do admit to having another hard drive in an exchangable drawer. I can use this as another real backup or I have used it to try out other operating systems and programs in a completely separate and sterile environment. So by the simple expedient of having exchangable drives my single PC becomes a chameleon and can fill the role of many different computers, though not concurrently of course.

    Xpilot
     
  23. Peleg

    Peleg Registered Member

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    I can't even get TI to see my Seagate external 500 GB USB 2.0 upon using recovery with a remote machine.

    Anyone else having issues with seeing an external USB driveo_O?

    This is annoying................
     
  24. Ralphie

    Ralphie Registered Member

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    Might be best to start a seperate thread on this ... and state what version and build of TI you have.
     
  25. jmk94903

    jmk94903 Registered Member

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    What do you mean using recovery with a remote machine. Please explain more completely.

    Are you booting one PC with the Recovery CD and then looking on the network for the USB drive on another PC? Is the USB drive on the other computer shared?
     
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