Some more backup Questions

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by WilliamP, Oct 29, 2004.

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  1. WilliamP

    WilliamP Registered Member

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    I have a 40 GB external backup system in case of a Hard drive failure. It is a CMS Peripherals ABS. It is supposed to be bootable. Of course I would have to remove the drive from it and install it in the computer. Now I want to have a backup in case something gets messed up. I am looking at Bootit NG and First Defence-ISR. I have just purchased a 120GB hard drive for the computer for this purpose. You see right now I have 17. 41 GB on my C drive and I will need the extra space. I think that I would like ,if possible to partition the 120 drive like 90 and 30 GB. Put my back up snapshot on the 30 GB. The reason is when I do a backup to my ABS I will only have to backup 17.41 GB and not 37.8. Now the question ,which software would be the best and is this possible. Also with it being on a seperate partition would I be able to use it easily as a backup? I could of course remove the back up and do a backup to the ABS then make another snapshot. I would appreciate your input.
     
  2. nick s

    nick s Registered Member

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    Hi WilliamP,

    I now use BootIt NG as my primary disk-imaging app and also as a boot and disk manager. Flawless imaging and restores (20+ restores) to and from slaved hard drives and external USB 2.0 drives. However, once you install it, it overwrites your Master Boot Record. This may impact how your ABS works (never used it). FirstDefense-ISR, I believe, must store its snapshots on the same drive where it is installed. Something like GoBack and its history. If that drive crashes, then all would be lost.

    Nick
     
  3. WilliamP

    WilliamP Registered Member

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    Nick ,I'm not sure how rewriting the MBR will affect the ABS. I could possibly find out from CMS. The ABS is what I rely on in case the hard drive dies. Thank you for your reply.
     
  4. nick s

    nick s Registered Member

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    With BootIt NG (I double-checked to make sure), you can create a registered bootable ISO that you can use to image/restore. If installing it to your hard drive conflicts with ABS, then just use the bootable CD to manage your images. The MBR will not be overwritten. You would choose the "Maintenance" option rather than the "Install" option when prompted.

    Nick
     
  5. WilliamP

    WilliamP Registered Member

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    Thank you Nick.
     
  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    William

    Becareful what you try. The ABS system uses CMS's Bounceback. It doesn't play nice with FD-ISR. That was my experience as if I understood what Raxco confirmed is that it wouldn't. If I were you I'd try the Image for Dos as opposed to Bootit NG.

    Pete
     
  7. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    Hi Peter et al,

    I would like to use Image for DOS for my backup and if you are able to, I would appreciate some advice.

    I have two PCs that are networked and I am open to installing any type of backup drive (internal or external) that I can use to create image copies of both hard drives in each of the computers. Both computers are XP and have single partition NTFS hard drives.

    Also, I would like to be able to boot from the backup hard drive if by chance I lose the primary drive - this would be true for either of the computers. I have lost a drive before (they are Dell computers). Also, I would like to use the image to recover files if necessary - though this is not the primary use. The most likely scenario is that I am hit with a virus or trojan that I cannot get rid of (this has happened) and I just want to go back to any image - let's say one week old.

    Any suggestions on how to configure would be greatly appreciated. The Image for DOS documetation that I downloaded and read is slight.

    Thanks for any info.

    Rich
     
  8. nick s

    nick s Registered Member

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    I agree with Pete. BootIt NG might be overkill and you will need to spend some time with the documentation. BTW, if you buy Image for Windows, you get Image for DOS at no charge.

    Nick
     
  9. WilliamP

    WilliamP Registered Member

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    I have removed Bounce Back and reinstalled ABS Plus which had been the original Back up software. I have looked at Image for DOS but don't know much about it.
     
  10. nod32_9

    nod32_9 Guest

    Easiest way to transfer ALL the data from your old HD to the new HD is to use the clone/copy software that came with the new HD. You can also visit the HD's website to download this software. Now remove the old HD and replace it with the new HD. Make sure the HD's jumper is set to MASTER or CABLE SELECT.

    You can now install Bootit ng. Enter the Bootit screen and partition the new HD. If you don't plan to install an OS in the newly created partition, then you should make it an extended logical partition. The OS usually resides in the primary partition.



    IFD question...

    It's best to install a slave HD in each of the two networked PCs to house the image file of the OS. Unless you have a RAID setup, you are not going to be able to reboot if your primary HD dies. If the master HD dies, then replace the bad HD with a new HD and use IFD to restore the image file from the slave HD back to the new HD.
     
  11. jwcca

    jwcca Registered Member

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    I put together a summary of how I manage my system, this includes a description of my HDD backup, and draws a distinction between two types of back up. There's the hardware backup of everything/anything to an EXTERNAL storage device vs. the software snapshot backup provided by First Defense ISR, GoBack and Windows Restore Points, etc. on the primary platform.
    First Defense only protects the c: drive contents, so if you have partitioned your drive it won't help you protect the d:... drives. Raxco states that FD is really designed to protect you related to program versions (sandbox beta testing), malicious code (that hits only your c: drive!), registry corruption and such. You don't want to include all you data files (MP3, etc.), which are best backed up using 'hardware' data backup software (probably to CD/DVD). That's what I do. Here's my 'world of protection':
    --------------------------------------------------------------------Layers of protection:
    1) Hardware backup
    a) Raid 1 provides protection from failure of a single drive
    b) Western Digital 36GB Raptors, 5 year warranty, reliability
    c) a spare drive in case one of the Raid 1 drives fails, installed
    immediately in array awaiting replacement of failed drive
    d) Copy Raid 1 image to bootable IDE HDD of 'same' size (40GB),
    weekly, in case both Raid drives fail at the same time or
    malicious code corrupts entire Raid array contents.
    Power OFF, connect IDE backup, insert V-Com diskette or CD
    Power ON, (change BIOS to boot from CD if appropriate),
    run Copy Commander (DOS MODE app) and
    copy (my time=45 minutes)
    Power OFF, disconnect IDE,
    Power ON to a normal session
    Recovery to IDE:
    Power OFF, disconnect Raid drives, connect IDE backup,
    Power ON and your up and running. Time=5 minutes.
    Reverse the process if you need to copy the IDE to the Raid.
    e) sensitive data is stored on a USB Flash memory stick
    f ) extremely sensitive data is stored on a second PC that is
    nor connected to the primary PC.
    2) Software 'backup' on Raid 1
    a) First Defense snapshots allow safe recovery to a previous
    state when 'sandbox' testing of new/beta software or when
    malicious code infects the current snapshot. Automatically
    boots to backup if current snapshot is corrupted (no BSOD).
    3) Security software
    a) IP provider provides anti-virus and anti-spam filters
    b) Firewall Zone Alarm Professional
    c) Anti-virus PC-cillan
    d) Anti-trojan TDS-3 scanner
    e) Execution filters Process Guard, PrevX, TDS-3, Worm Guard
    f) Download filters AdWatch, Spyware Guard
    f) Site filters Spyware Blaster. Zone Alarm, IE Restricted sites
    AdWatch
    g) Content filters AdSubrtact, Proxomitron
    h) Monitors BHODemon, RegProtect, PrevX, Port Explorer,
    Spy Bot Search and Destroy-TeaTimer,
    WormGuard, TDS-3 for port 5000 alerts
    DCS APM and APT, RegMon
    i) Scanner/Cleaners PC-cillan, TDS-3, AdAwareSE, SpyBot S&D,
    MRU Blaster, Crap Cleaner
    j) Scanners Hijack This, DCS AutoStart Viewer
    k) Killers DSC Advanced Process Termination
    (which I've never had to use, thankfully)

    I classified the software according to my own opinions, actually there is
    overlap in functionallity amongst many of the applications.

    The sequence of the list is arbitrary and isn't meant to indicate preference
    or priority.

    There may be other applications that perform the same functions but I have
    not tried them because I have found that these do have satisfy my needs.
    I use V-Com's Partition Commander package which includes:
    Copy Commander, which I use to copy the HDD images and
    System Commander, which I cannot use (for multi-booting)
    because both it and First Defense (by Raxco) want to 'own' the MBR.
    (Thus GoBack also can't be used, but First Defense is, in my opinion, best
    suited for my needs and objectives. )

    I purchased the above applications, where commercially offered, in order to
    support the vendors and 'ensure' continued support.
    I have not contributed to any 'freeware' due, in my opinion, to the lack of a
    secure, yet easy, method of funds transfer.


    Jim

    PS an example of using First Defense, and my initial reason for purchasing it, was to setup two snapshots, one was my 'original' which included Process Guard 2 and Port Explorer 1.8 and the second Process Guard 3 Beta 2 and Port Explorer 2. My need was to be able to quickly revert to the 'original' versions if I experienced trouble with the new versions. (I haven't had any problems and haven't needed to 'revert' but I did test that FD worked as expected, the same theory applies to testing the new Firefox, etc.).
    I configured FD to NOT copy My Documents, Outlook.pst or data files that I wanted to be current in all/any snapshots, but read the documentation....

    And it does the same thing as ERUNT, i.e. backs up the entire registry, so you don't have to worry about restoring it.

    Wow, this is a long post, sorry, but in summary:
    If I can recover with First Defense, that's what I'd do first, if everything got corrupted, I'd restore from my IDE. My only exposure then is if I got a nastie that went undetected for over 2 weeks and only attacked after I had backed up yet again to my external IDE drives with the nastie intact. I rely on the security software providers to supply a scanning solution before that happens. If that fails, I still have the second PC.

    HTH - Jim
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2004
  12. richrf

    richrf Registered Member

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    Hi Jim,

    Thanks a lot for taking the time to write this detail response.

    Rich
     
  13. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi JIm

    I also add thanks for your post. I have a question. I have one internal 120g drive, one partition. I image using 3 programs, Ghost 2003,Drive Snapshot, and Acronis True Image. Also backup with Retrospect. Do all this to an external 250g drive with 4 partitions. But like you I am looking for a bit more redundancy, although I must admit the odds of both drives failing is slim. Thinking of adding another external drive, either hard disk or DVD. Seems like the odds of 3 hard drives failing at once is very slim.

    Biggest advantage of HD is speed, and capacity, whereas the DVD's are very portable, and easy to take offsite. Extra HD also allows the potential of attempting restores with out risking main drive.

    My question is are you doing anything for offsite data storage?

    Thank, Pete
     
  14. WilliamP

    WilliamP Registered Member

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    Hey guys, I have a question about FD-ISR. I was reading up on it and it was talking about defraggers moving the $ISR.BIN file. Now, does the Windows defragger move this file? Do you have to use Perfect Disk?
     
  15. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi William

    What you need to do is exclude the $isr.bin so the defragger doesn't move it. Not sure if you can do that with the windows defragger. Personally I've tested Diskeeper 8.0, O &O Defragger against PefectDisk, and I would go with Perfect disk anyway. I found it faster, and also it defrags freespace. Diskkeeper defrags files but leaves them scatter over the disk.(Can do that also with PerfectDisk). But the best perfectdisk defrag also compacts them so the freespace is also defragged(files are all together) and it sorts the files based on frequency of use.

    Pete

    PS From talking with Raxco techsupport it is my understanding, that if you do accidently move it, when you reboot you will get an error message. Another reboot will let FDISR find the new position of $isr.bin, and then all is well. I have never tested this.
     
  16. WilliamP

    WilliamP Registered Member

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    Thanks Pete for the reply. I will probably go with FD-ISR after I install my new drive. How much trouble would it be to remove the snapshot do a backup to my ABS drive then make a new backup with FD?
     
  17. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi William

    Probably not worth the time. If you want your backup to be bootable all I would do is disable FDISR's preboot. I also disable Wormguard, ProcessGuard, and my Anti Virus. I do this for both backups/imaging and for updating an FDISR. Just seems to avoid problems.

    I timed removing the FDISR snapshot when I create a ghost 2003 image. It is by far the slowest. The time saved in imaging was lost by having to remove the snapshot(which is deleting all the files) and then rebuilding the snapshot(which is recopying them). Not worth it.

    Pete
     
  18. WilliamP

    WilliamP Registered Member

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    Pete ,what does disabling FDISR preboot accomplish. I am assuming that you are talking about prior to doing a backup to the ABS. You see my ABS backup drive is only 40GB. I have 17.41 GB on my C drive. We have some rather large programs.
     
  19. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi WIlliam

    If your backup drive is bootable you would want to disable the preboot, if it isn't, it probably doesn't matter. FD-ISR like goback modifies the master boot record so FDISR has the boot intercept which allows you to chose a snapshot to boot into. For any backup/image where you are making the new disk / image bootable you want a clean master boot record. By disabling FDISR's preboot, you are in essence restoring the MBR to it's original state. Note, that whenever you do this you want to turn it back on as quick as posssible.

    Pete
     
  20. jwcca

    jwcca Registered Member

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    Hi Pete, I take the IDE drives to work (in an office), the oldest is at work, the most current is at home, ready to go. I should elaborate a bit about my setup, when I copy with V-Com Copy Commander, I also change the SID, so when I boot from the backup IDE, which I just did and from which I'm now on the forum, it took 12 minutes. The sequence for this is:
    1) Bios portion
    2) Promise Raid card delay not finding the SATA drives (which I disconnected in order to boot the IDE copy)
    3) FD-ISR boot control, I just hit enter to continue
    4) Perfect Disk boot-time defrag, this sees the 4 partitions as 'dirty' I think because I changed the SSID, but I'm not sure) and initiates Checkdisk.
    5) Bios portion after Perfect Disk boot-time, plus Promise delay plus FD-ISR
    5) Windows boots and finds the IDE so it wants to reboot, which I do
    6) Bios, Promise, FD-ISR, PD boot defrag, Bios, Promise, FD-ISR, Windows

    There's only one human intervention required which is the Windows New Hardware option to reboot or not.

    Now I run an Asus A7N8X with an XP2700+ so the hardware is pretty quick, slower systems will take longer, etc. But 12 minutes to be up and logging on to Wilders for this post is 'not too shabby'. Actually, I perform the copy then switch and boot the IDE to make sure it's OK, which means that if I have to really use it, it only takes the normal time to boot. How long does it take to recover using CD/DVD or those other methods? More than 12 minutes I'll bet. But I could be wrong, if someone wants to post their time I'd find it interesting.

    I do use offsite, but only in case the PC is stolen or the house burns down and I'm covered in the sense that the Security Monitors
    1) Call me on my cell
    2) send pictures of what's happening so I can gauge my response (call Fire Dept., Police, and/or the neighbors)

    In these extreme situations, it might take a lot longer to boot up 'cause I'd need to find a new PC first (https://www.wilderssecurity.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=287422#
    Wink . (hope the smiley shows up...)

    Jim
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2004
  21. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Jim

    Thanks. I work at home which is great, but prevents me from using your offsite solution. I must say though were I live(apartment in DC) the theft threat is almost nil, and the fire threat is probably much lower than usual. These old 1910-1930 era apartment buildings are built much different then new construction in the suburbs today.

    Other than the offsite situation, I feel very confident in my backup strategy.

    Pete
     
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