Software Installers - stop please

Discussion in 'other software & services' started by Capp, Jan 20, 2010.

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  1. Capp

    Capp Registered Member

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    This is directed to anyone/everyone that makes software installers. Please stop asking me if I want to install:
    • Google Chrome
    • Bing Toolbar
    • Google Toolbar
    • Yahoo Toolbar
    • Desktop Search
    • Pretty much any Google, Yahoo, MS product
    • And on and on....
    If I wanted those installed, I would download them myself. What is worse is that they are default to "Yes" during the install.
    I understand the concept of marketing and the potential reasons behind it, but you gotta understand that a big chunk of people doing the installs are IT guys like me, doing a lot of the same installs on lots of different computers. I very much dislike having to uncheck all the BS extra stuff that it tries to install.

    Oh and please stop asking me why I uninstalled your program, if I want to take a survey, how my "session" went, etc.. Ask once, if I say no, don't ask again.

    These days it seems like every installer out there comes bundled with something Google makes. I'm sorry, but aside from their search engine, Google has yet to produce anything that wasn't bloatware garbage. I personally can't stand additional toolbars in my browser, so no...I won't be installing them.


    Yes this is my personal opinion and a bit of a rant, but it seems to be getting worse and worse every year.
     
  2. optigrab

    optigrab Registered Member

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    I find them annoying, too, but since you seem to have to cope with them more than I, may I ask a couple of questions?

    Are these installers mostly found on freeware? Which software titles are some of the big "abusers", in your experience?
     
  3. WSFuser

    WSFuser Registered Member

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    I just try avoiding software that includes "extras". So far only avast is an exception.

    And since you mention IT, you might want to take a look at the MSFN forum for info about silent/unattended installers.

    @optigrab - some examples: CCleaner full installer includes Yahoo toolbar and latest avast 5 offers to install Google chrome.
     
  4. LoneWolf

    LoneWolf Registered Member

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    I hate toolbars and other added junk in some installers, even more so when you opt out and the crap is still gets installed. :thumbd:
    I know it's all about money but it still sucks. :thumbd:
     
  5. Capp

    Capp Registered Member

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    Those are 2 software packages I installed today actually and one of the reasons for this article.

    Oh and yes I realize that these are "Free" software that are most guilty, but still. I have software I spent tons of time on that is free and there are no extras in my installers.
     
  6. Victek

    Victek Registered Member

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    It has become standard to be offered Google Toolbar when installing Flash updates from the adobe site. Sun Java also offers something (maybe OpenOffice.org, but I'm not sure). It my experience it's mostly freeware that does this and unfortunately it's "opt out" instead of "opt in". Perhaps the worst is AOL. Pretty much any product you install from them will try to install every other product :)
     
  7. dw426

    dw426 Registered Member

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    So Bing now has a toolbar too, huh? Well, until enough people start un-checking that default "Yes" box and refuse these toolbars, they're there to stay unfortunately. As you said, it's all about the marketing. Now, I'll play devils' advocate long enough to say that I can see why vendors of solely freeware would do it. These guys need to make a profit somehow since, unless you own the animals to kill for it, food isn't free.

    However, I still expect them to be responsible and not get themselves tied up with a spyware company. They still should stick to the likes of Yahoo, Google (By the way, wouldn't Google these days kind of fit the description of spyware? Sorry, just HAD to toss that in there).

    I agree that already having the "Yes" box pre-selected is a shady move, but, had they NOT been doing that all along, we would not still be seeing and talking about Yahoo and Google toolbars, imho.
     
  8. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    It annoys me as well.
    No matter what im installing I use the custom install option and check every tick box carefully before proceeding .
     
  9. Capp

    Capp Registered Member

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    Same here, I always do custom installs, but I still wish developers would stop making the default option to "yes" for optional installs.
     
  10. Franklin

    Franklin Registered Member

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    Came across the below in another forum but haven't had a need to try it as yet.

    Ninite Easy PC Setup
     
  11. Seer

    Seer Registered Member

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    I can understand the annoy factor, but let's get serious here - you are getting the software for free. So you don't like the toolbar, huh? OK, we'll make it toolbar-free. A license is $29 now. And no toolbar, no opt-in opt-out whatsoever. Is this better?
    Just think about that for 5 mins. And please quit whining.

    I use and very much like Google Earth. It's a great fun and a great concept. Yes, there are some tricks that need to be used to avoid the "Google Updater" thingie, but the software is aimed at home users. As in, it is not assumed that you will install it 264 times in a row.

    Nice to see you back, WSF.
     
  12. WSFuser

    WSFuser Registered Member

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    They do have a free version for personal use.

    However I agree that $20/month for the licensed version is crazy expensive considering there are freeware alternatives like Windows Post-Installation Wizard.
     
  13. NGRhodes

    NGRhodes Registered Member

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    I agree that it is annoying, but what is the alternative for developers who need some $$$ for their time to develop and support their software?

    Google toolbar is good and very configurable. I run it as a set of additional buttons in Firefox rather than a complete toolbar. A lot of google online services are fast and efficient compared to the competition, Gmail VS Hotmail, Google Analytics VS Web Trends, Google Maps VS Multimap

    IMHO it is right to question things like this, just because people do things and it becomes common practice does not automatically make it right (speeding on the road, taking illegal drugs, jumping off a cliff..).
     
  14. WSFuser

    WSFuser Registered Member

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    Make it really cheap (< $10) shareware?

    Offer a paid version with more features? Or make an entirely different program and sell that?
     
  15. YeOldeStonecat

    YeOldeStonecat Registered Member

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    Adobe Flash
    Adobe Shockwave
    Java
    FoxitPDF

    This increase in "Me-too-ware" is crazy and annoying.
     
  16. Basic

    Basic Registered Member

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    :D

    I like that. Thanks for the chuckle.
     
  17. Victek

    Victek Registered Member

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    Obviously if we must choose between toolbars and paying for licenses most of us will opt for the toolbars, but it's still appropriate to talk about where the boundaries are. For instance is "opt out" instead of "opt in" OK? What about the installer also changing your default search engine? Home page? What about data collection and phoning home? When does it become rogue-ware? I don't think we should just tolerate all these behaviors because a particular piece of software is free.
     
  18. dcrowe0050

    dcrowe0050 Registered Member

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    I agree with SEER, it is very annoying but these are developers that are taking their time and in some cases their money to get freeware products to the users. Get over it because it is a small price to pay to clear one or two check boxes to avoid the installation.
     
  19. siljaline

    siljaline Former Poster

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  20. WSFuser

    WSFuser Registered Member

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    ^ Thats a lot of installers! Thanks for the list.
     
  21. siljaline

    siljaline Former Poster

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    You're welcome.
     
  22. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    You don't have to tolerate the behavior. You have two choices: Use the paid version or don't use it at all.

    Unfortunately as in life nothing of value is really free. You may not want to pay in currency, but you do ultimately have to pay.
     
  23. Fly

    Fly Registered Member

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    Some paid software does this too. Example :Spy Sweeper (last time I checked).
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
  24. Longboard

    Longboard Registered Member

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    Love the labelling of the toolbars in AVG and Comodo as :bleh: "security enhanced scanner toolbars"

    What outrageous bullsh**.

    Posted before:
    http://onlinearmorpersonalfirewall.blogspot.com/2009/05/ask-toolbar-in-online-armor-free-nearly.html
    http://billpstudios.blogspot.com/2008/01/would-you-like-toolbar-with-your.html
    Support your local software good guys :thumb:
    Integrity: priceless.
    I bet many members here have faced up to various erm: "incentive" offers. LOL. I work in an area laden with conflicts of interest and large $$ amounts at stake.

    Have to be able to lie straight in bed at night.
    :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2010
  25. Capp

    Capp Registered Member

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    Since I'm the OP, I'll add to this.

    For starters, as I mentioned above, I'm a software developer too that has a few different free software packages available and you know what, there are no additional things installed or even offered in my products. The reason: I choose not to because I know it is annoying to the customer. Sure I could package in some useless toolbars and additional browsers, but that isn't what the client chose when they clicked the download link on my site.

    And the argument about: if I don't want the toolbars, then pay for software... So the difference between free and dropping 20 bucks on an app is a checkbox?

    Not to start a war or conflict, but hearing people say I'm "Whining" and should "Get over it", how is that constructive to anything? This is not a "whine", its a voicing of opinion from a fellow developer.

    The point is, if they want to cram their software (Free or Paid for) with toolbars, browsers, surveys, etc.... Make it "Opt-in", not "Opt-out". Let me choose if I want to install it, not make me have to double-check every time to make sure I don't accidentally install it.

    And as mentioned before, its not always just a toolbar. Sometimes its changing the home page or the default search engine or switching your default browser, etc.. IMO, those are more than annoying, but instead are quite bad.

    This might not seem like such a big deal to most people, but as I also said, being an IT person, I do tons and tons of installs on various computers with free and paid software. I do realize there are options for unattended installers, but that isn't always an option either. Trust me, if I can do a unattended push install to a network, I will every time....but when I have to do 1 workstation at time, making sure to uncheck a checkbox every time just adds to the total time.

    Also, another problem is, it's not always really obvious that you are getting an additional installer. Some of them have a screen with a giant screenshot of what is offered and the checkbox to say yes, is a little bitty blip in the corner of the screen. Or they'll throw the checkbox in the middle of a bunch of other options that you would normaly leave defaulted anyway.

    So, I don't think the attitude should be "Get over it".
     
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