Slow indexing of files

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by stapp, Jun 26, 2010.

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  1. stapp

    stapp Global Moderator

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    Have installed 3.32.235 on Vista SP2.

    It took quite a while to make a copy of secondary, over an hour and a half.

    Doing a copy/update where just a test file has changed takes around 8 minutes.

    I can boot into secondary (it exsists!!)

    I have MSE on here and tried turning off real time protection during a copy/update but it made no difference to the time.

    There are a couple of places during the indexing of files for a copy/update where the indexing pauses. There are no errors listed in the log. When it finally does the copy there are areas where it seems to take a long time.

    I have system restore turned off.

    Is there something regarding vista which is different with FD-ISR than XP is?

    Would be greatful for any thoughts on this.
     
  2. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Never used Vista, still using XP, some ideas though they may be totally irrelevant in your case:
    I always keep my AV turned on, never seems to slow me down.
    My FirstDefense appears to stop at one place but it is actually working, just takes a long time to copy my Virtual Machine files, especially if I made any changes inside of the VM, but everything just keeps on working just fine. Do you have a VM installed on your system? Other than that, no ideas.

    Acadia
     
  3. stapp

    stapp Global Moderator

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    Thanks for the reply Arcadia. I have no VM on here.

    As you say there is no difference if I leave the av on or off. I just cannot work out what is slowing everything down:(
     
  4. crofttk

    crofttk Registered Member

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    What kind of KB/sec rate are you getting, stapp? Does it vary, fall off when you experience the pauses?
     
  5. jwcca

    jwcca Registered Member

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    Hi Stapp, it might (and might not) be OA so turn off OA and try it. I say this because FD first gets a very long list of everything and then uses the list to create individual "Copy.exe"s. I know this because (inadvertently) I left OA in Learning Mode when I started the FDR copy process and it was very slow as OA checked each create list and each create object request.
    Might also try Exclusion for FD-ISR.
    Hope this helps but it may not.
    Jim
     
  6. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    The main reasons are the "NTFS symbolic links" and the "Transactional NTFS" features of vista and later OSes for the one pause.

    The other pause is caused when FD-ISR indexes the SVS files, more info here.

    Panagiotis
     
  7. stapp

    stapp Global Moderator

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    Ok this morning I have done another copy/update to secondary. I had removed a desktop folder on primary as a test and added your exclusion Pandlouk.

    Time taken 6.34 minutes. Time of preparing to copy 9.16.53am. Copying started at 9.21.21am and copying finished at 9.23.16am

    Even with the exclusion I still had a small pause in indexing and one longer one when around 9000 files had been done. Then of course the indexing starts again!

    The indexing is very slow, the actually copying didn't seem to take too long although it does seem to hang around at c\windows\system32\config\reg backup where the speed dropped and the time to end increased slightly.

    The speed of copy is around 7000-8000kb/sec and then drops as it goes on to around 5000kb.

    I don't have Online Armor on here just MSE.

    On XP FD-ISR can copy update from start to finsh in 2-3 minutes.

    Is this slow indexing something which happens on vista perhaps, and even windows7?

    I appreciate any imput given here.
     
  8. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Stapp, is this FD "classic original"?

    Acadia
     
  9. stapp

    stapp Global Moderator

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    Oh yes indeed it is :)
     
  10. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Yes, it happens in both vista and 7; but is an OS thing and not an FD-ISR problem. It even happens when you perform a chkdsk.

    If you consider that vista and 7 are 7-8 times larger than xp with more than 15.000 folders and 80.000 files it is not so bad.

    Personally I use more Windows System Restore or Roxio BackOntrack than FD-ISR for restoring.

    And since I have not entered on my XP snapshot for more than 6 months I am considering formating the disk with a cluster of 16k and using exclusively Windows System Restore. And since Todd will not add support for clusters other than 4k (neither for FD-ISR nor for FD-Rescue), both will go to the closet.

    ps.Windows System Restore in 7 and Vista is much more powerfull than that of XP.The only drawback is when used with cluster lower than 16k the snapshots grow larger with every defrag. Windows System Restore on 16k cluster combined with System Restore Explorer; seems to me more and more appealling day by day.

    Panagiotis
     
  11. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Pandlouk, thanks for that info, especially the Roxio product. I'm currently looking for products to replace FD-ISR :'( because I want to upgrade from XP to Win7 and I don't feel like jumping thru hoops to make FD work in Win7 which it wasn't designed for. I'm also looking at the Farstone product Snapshot. Yes, I know that System Restore is much better in Win7 than XP. The only reason that I am still on XP is because of FirstDefense but I am already two Operating Systems behind and this cannot go on forever.

    Acadia
     
  12. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    You are welcome Acadia.:)

    Even thow, I do consider Roxio BackOnTrack Suite (the suite has the instant restore feature) better than all the alternatives (RollbackRX and Clones) and Farstone Snapshot; and believe me that I made extensive tests on all of them, for me the best option is Windows System Restore on a partition of 16k cluster size combined with System Restore Explorer.

    Roxio BackOnTrack Suite is my second choice mainly because it plays well with FD-ISR and because is file based and not sector based.

    But if you do not need FD-ISR multiOS capabilities anymore, Windows System Restore is the way to go; It is as powerfull as the alternatives, but is much more stable and is the one with the smallest impact on the system performance.

    Panagiotis
     
  13. stapp

    stapp Global Moderator

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    Like Arcadia, I thank you for your thoughts on this Pandlouk.

    On XP I can use FD-ISR on a daily basis for trying out new softwares, windows updates, etc etc. It is just so handy and is part of the way I have operated. To be able to screw up a system and then return it how it was in two minutes is highly addictive :D

    Finding something else that gives the same user confidence will be a challenge for me. Trying FD-ISR with Vista has not been quite as I expected although it works, it just takes longer.

    I did not understand when you said ''Roxio BackOnTrack Suite is my second choice mainly because it plays well with FD-ISR'' does this mean you use them both together?

    Your thoughts on System Restore were interesting indeed.
     
  14. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Oh, and in the future I fear that I will be going thru the most horrible withdrawal! :oops:

    Acadia
     
  15. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Exactly. See here.

    It is like having FD-ISR on steroids. Multiple OSes with multiple snapshots.

    Panagiotis
     
  16. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Does Roxio offer a trial. I didn't see one.

    Pete
     
  17. samy

    samy Registered Member

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    I was also reluctant to move to Win7 from WP. But following Pandlouk's fantastic tutorial thread (sticky above) i did it successfully.
    I have actually two XP snapshots (one for my kids heavy games and one for general usage) and two Win7 snapshots (one for general usage and one for programs and additional tests). All four are working perfectly for almost 3 months now. I built also 4 archives I am updating once every two weeks (depending upon the activity of the appropriate snapshot). IMHO FD has a "second life" with Win7.

    Pandlouk can you please elaborate more on the Win7 System Restore .
    i.e. where can I find explicit guidance.
    I my case above (two XP snapshots and two Win7 ones) will still System Restore performing well.

    Thanks
     
  18. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    If you are using FirstDefense you do not need System Restore and you can turn it off.

    If you give up FirstDefense and rely on System Restore, the Microsoft website has all the good information that you need in order to use it. Ignore the web pages with info on WinXp System Restore because Microsoft made System Restore a little bit different in Win7, also made it much more robust and reliable.

    Acadia
     
  19. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Hehe, thanks for the kind words.:)

    Win7 system restore is sector oriented and not file oriented.(like imaging apps). Plus it gives you the ability to view multiple versions of your modified files or even to find deleted files (when you mount the snapshot as a virtual drive)
    Every change you make on your protected system/partitions is being record (very similar to Goback). But the problem is that since is made to understand blocks of 16k, gets confused if used on a partition with cluster size of 4k. And everytime you defrag thinks that the files are modified when in reallity they are not. This causes the snapshots to become bigger or even lost during defragmentation.(goback and farstone restoreit had the same problem)
    But if you format the partition with a cluster of 16k or higher the defrags do not confuse it anymore and the snapshots do not grow in size unless a real modification takes place.

    And with System Restore Explorer you have the ability to mount the snapshots as virtual drives and to remove those that you do not want anymore.

    In reality Windows System Restore on 7 is the true successor of GoBack.And on partition of 16k cluster and higher is far superior from goback and the current Instant Restore applications.

    Panagiotis

    -edit you can try it on one of your snapshots. I have not tried it but as long as you do not update/modify your FD-ISR snapshots there should be no problem. In the worst case scenario you will lose the Windows System Restore snapshots when you will boot in a different FD-ISR snapshot, but it will not affect neither the OS nor the FD-ISR snaps.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  20. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    True, in fact SR was actually created by the GoBack people but MS stripped it down so it would only recover the most important parts of the system and not everything like GoBack could do.

    Acadia
     
  21. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Did not know that the goback guys built it. Any link about this?

    -since I forgot it on the above post here are the links about system restore on 7.
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows7/products/features/system-restore
    http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Previous-versions-of-files-frequently-asked-questions

    Panagiotis
     
  22. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Good grief, that was a long time ago, the first time that MS implemented SR, whatever Operating System that was. I would have to look for that. Does anyone remember the name of the small company that originally created Goback? (I do.) It was not Roxio or Adeptec, and that small company had the best tech support that I have ever seen.

    Acadia
     
  23. Acadia

    Acadia Registered Member

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    Nope, cannot find any proof of that, perhaps my memory is failing me. :doubt:

    Acadia
     
  24. ruinebabine

    ruinebabine Registered Member

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    Wild File, Inc.
    I seem to remember that it was a kiwi company but it seems they were located in Plymouth, Minnesota, from what I read on the web. My first using of Goback date from 1998 or 1999. I should have again some old copies resting on back CDs. :)

    It is also what I heard then (the OS was XP), but no trace found on the net here neither...
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  25. pandlouk

    pandlouk Registered Member

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    Actually the first OS was Windows ME.
    -I still remember it; it came with my very first pc, and I managed to delete internet explorer, windows media player and "destory" the OS in 15 minutes. And neither system restore nor reinstallation could fix the problems.
    I am propably one of the very few that in the windows era, had to learn about dos commands like format and fdisk before even navigating in net.-
    The very next day I got interested in ISR and imaging apps. :D

    Panagiotis
     
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