So the apartment building I live in is really old and so is the wiring. A few years ago my PC started manifesting performance issues during games and I ruled out every single thing except for the mains power. I don't know if this is related to the problem or not but my cpu voltages are fluctuating between 1.125 v and 1.475 in full load and so is the core speed, between 800 mhz and 3.2 ghz. I've been on many forums and a lot of people suggested that I get an AVR or an UPS. I don't have any random blackouts by the way. I was thinking about getting an AVR, since it's cheaper. Will that do?
You should get a UPS with AVR! That could be normal by design. It is not uncommon for processor speeds to vary depending on the load. If you the CPU is sitting at idle, it is just wasting energy and generating excessive heat while spinning its wheels and going no where. Note the battery backup for full power outages (blackouts) is just a bonus. It is the AVR that is the primary advantage to a good UPS with AVR. These devices use the batteries to boost the voltage during abnormal low voltage events which are just as common as surges and spikes. These include sags (opposite of surges), dips (opposite of spikes) and brownouts (long duration sags). I recommend you check out the eXtreme Power Supply Calculator. Plug in all your computer components and see the results. While this is normally used to determine your power supply requirements, note it will also recommend a minimum UPS size. There is no danger in getting a UPS much larger than you need. In fact, the larger UPSs tend to have the better features (like LCD status displays and more connectors). And a larger UPS will let you protect your network gear and your monitor(s) too. Also, every home and every computer user should have access to a AC Outlet Tester to ensure your outlet is properly wired and grounded. I recommend one with a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) indicator as it can be used to test bathroom and kitchen outlets too. These testers can be found for your type and voltage outlet, foreign or domestic, (like this one for the UK) at most home improvement stores, or even the electrical department at Wal-Mart or your local discount store. Use it to test all the outlets in the house and if a fault is shown, have it fixed by a qualified electrician.
Thank you for the reply, I'll get one of those testers as soon as possible. The power supply calculator result was 350w. Regarding the UPS, is this model ok: UPS APC Back-UPS 700VA AVR Schuko bx700u-gr
APC is my preferred brand! They might cost a little more than other brands but to me they seem worth it. In fact, I still have an APC Smart-UPS 900 that I got in 1994 that is still working just fine! I have it supporting my garage door opener as I live in Tornado Alley. I have had to replace the batteries a few times over the years (normal routine maintenance for all UPS), but the UPS itself still works great. Note that UPS batteries normally need to be replaced about every 4-5 years. I never buy my replacement batteries from APC. Instead, I shop around the various on-line battery sites for the best price that day as prices change almost daily. Be sure to factor in shipping too as some sites charge more for the batteries, but offer free shipping. That UPS comes with APC's PowerChute software. You don't have to use it but I do. You connect the UPS to your computer via a USB cable. PowerChute then lets you monitor your UPS status via Windows and a System Tray icon. It lets you configure certain options, including shutdown options, tells you how much run time you have left, and even tells you how much your energy costs are.
It looks like a good choice to me! Note I also have a decent UPS on my big screen TV and home theater audio equipment too.
Oh, I actually had one more question. Is there any possibility that my system might have gotten permanently damaged from the unstable voltage and that the ups won't fix my issue unless I use it on a new pc, before I plug it in?
I would recommend an APC as well. I got this one: http://www.apc.com/shop/bg/en/products/APC-Power-Saving-Back-UPS-Pro-900-230V/P-BR900GI I dont remember the reasons as it was a few years ago. Might be because i could buy it locally. I originally had a belkin which made it difficult to change the battery while APC dont. I also use third party batterys when they need changing.
Unfortunately, yes, it is possible. But if your computer is still working now, there's a good chance all is okay - for now. But another extreme power anomaly could damage it. You should make sure you have a current backup of any data you don't want to lose (of course, good backups are essential even when everything is working great). Typically, it is the power supply that takes the hit, but electricity is fickle, if not downright magical. It does not always behave as expected and a damaged power supply, if you are very unlucky, can take out everything connected to the supply. But those are very rare cases and most likely the power anomaly was very extreme - like a direct lightning strike which nothing can stop. Long ago in my radio maintenance days when "gremlins" seemed to be haunting our equipment, we called it "FM" - though not for "frequency modulation", but for a certain type of magic!
I run a small milling machine and I found that the APC units did not work to prevent loss of contact between the PC and the controller during power drops and fluctuations. The unit that survived the unplug test was a Liebert from Liebert / Emerson. Its a bit more expensive than the APC units but it is a better device.
Without knowing more specifics, it is impossible to say why you had problems. For example, what size was the UPS? What size was the milling machine? It should be noted that ATX power supplies are required to "hold up" output power for at least 16ms in the event the mains drops below 90VAC or 180VAC. That is not very long. But a good UPS will react and cutover to backup in less than 10ms (often around 5ms) when such a drop is detected. Computers are not considered "industrial" either while a milling machine, even a small one might be. Large motors impose a much larger load than most computers - especially when they first spin up. You say "small" but that could still be a 3/4HP motor and that easily equates to over 550W just for the motor. If it also included lights, that would add more. UPS are rated in VA (volt amps). When you factor in a .7 power factor, a 550W load would require at least a 786VA UPS. I would not discount APC UPS for computers based on your experience trying to use one with a milling machine.
I see. I'm actually in the middle of building another pc so I might as well wait until it's finished before buying that UPS. Thanks for the help.
The problem was not with a motor but with the controller. The controller is the device that tells the mill what to do. The problem was that when there was a power fluctuation the APC unit did not kick in fast enough whereas the Liebert unit does.
It might be a good idea to wait until you have selected all your components so you can better determine the size UPS you need. But I would urge you order in time for it to be there when you power up your new computer for the first time. And be sure to factor in the power needs of your monitor(s) and any other devices you want to protect. I note my 24" LED LCD monitors take about 25W each. The typical cable modem uses around 10 - 15 watts. Wireless routers vary. You can look at the power block but 25W is probably the average. Again, without knowing the specifics (milling machine power requirements and UPS size), I cannot agree or disagree. But I will say assuming the UPS of adequate size and was working properly, the batteries were in good shape and fully charged and the UPS was not faulty, the fact is your controller should be much more fault tolerant than that. It is designed for working in an industrial environment (without an UPS) after all where high wattage systems are cycling on and off all the time. And again, a 3/4 or even 1/2 horsepower motor yanks a lot of power when first spinning up - a lot more power than it takes to just maintain a constant speed. So for some reason, it appears your controller is just too sensitive, or the APC was just a faulty unit, not a faulty design. I also note with many APC UPSs, you can adjust the sensitivity if needed so it cuts over faster, or if needed, not cut over as much. Did your milling machine fault without any UPS? As I noted, most UPSs can react within 10ms of detecting a power anomaly. That is extremely fast - much faster than humans can detect. A slight flicker in the lights, for example, must be an anomaly lasting at least 30ms for the typical human to perceive. The UPS thedude58 selected, as seen here has an incredibly fast cutover or "Transfer Time" of just 4ms. That's 4ms to detect the anomaly then cut over to battery back up. The APC Back-UPS Pro 900 trott3r has a typical transfer rate of just 8ms, still extremely fast. So, as an electronics technician for over 45 years (see link in my sig), I can say with confidence the problem was not the APC UPS (assuming again, it was sized properly and was not faulty). That said, Liebert UPS are nice units indeed. Expensive, but nice. Many are "on-line", meaning they are providing power to the connected devices all the time - there is no cutover. These are often used in critical life support and health monitoring systems.
I used the eXtreme Power Supply Calculator you linked in your first reply and the parts I'm planning to buy didn't exceed 350w (monitor and peripherals included).
I am not that tech savvy but the problem was that when my homes air conditioning system would cycle on the controller would lose connection with the mills PC (motor, which is basically a Dremel unit - actually a Fordom Flex Shaft unit - was already running so it was not causing the problem). I tried 2 different APC units (the 2nd much larger than the first,,,,no longer recall what sizes) but they did not help. I posted my problem on the CAD programs forum and was told by a number of members to try the Liebert system as they had a similar experience as I was having. Problem was solved.
Well, not sure. It would have been interesting to see what happened if you tried another UPS designed for home computer systems, like one from CyberPower. And of course, not all UPS are created equal. Even among APC, there is a wide price range from their budget up to the higher end models. Just look at these two 1500VA models. At any rate, while I prefer APC, I am not that brand loyal to the point of excluding all others. My greater concern that is folks use a good UPS suited for their needs and demands - regardless the brand.
I agree about the brand thing, not all are created equal. I paid a lot for my 2nd APC unit, something like $600 and it did not work for my application. I even called APC and they wanted to sell me an even more expensive unit. The Liebert unit was around $300 and it worked, thats all I cared about as the failures were costing me money in that my jewellery production was negatively impacted. Anyway, just wanted to say in my original post above that I found Liebert to be superior and to provide an option that in my opinion was better. It was not my intention to hijack this thread so I apologize for that.
Well, hijacking is not cool, but I learned something and the OP could benefit from the discussion too.
Hi Bill i always tought that all good ups like APC they included in their ups Avr i own an APC Back-UPS BX1400U with AVR but i own an APC Back-UPS ES 700VA for my tv , i wanted to buy another one for a friend of mine but i don't think it features an AVR , does it include? thanks Bill
No, not all do. All provide battery backup when the input voltage drops below some threshold. Some provide some level of surge and spike protection. And the better ones also provide automatic voltage regulation (AVR) too.
A UPS allows you to save your work and power down your PC in the event of a power outage. Its not meant as a substitute for a normal AC outlet.
I don't know of anyone who thinks that. Of course, an UPS plugs into a normal AC outlet, then the computer and other devices plug into the UPS. As for saving your work, you either have to be there when the power cuts-over to battery, or the UPS needs to support communication with the operating system via an interconnect cable and special software. PowerChute is APC's software that will automatically save any open documents and "gracefully" shutdown Windows before the battery runs down completely. Otherwise, when the battery runs down, the power is just cut - which of course, can corrupt data.
