ShadowProtect vs FD-ISR Rescue

Discussion in 'FirstDefense-ISR Forum' started by pepperer, Jan 2, 2008.

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  1. pepperer

    pepperer Registered Member

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    Hi, I'm one of the unfortunate souls :mad: who missed out on FD-ISR Wkstn, but I've cried till I can't cry any more so I'm moving on and looking for the next best thing for my needs.
    I use Ghost and keep a reasonably up-to-date image but I wanted to be able to test new software, including kinds that require a reboot, then quickly and 100% completely wipe it from PC if I felt like it.
    I looked at RBRx but rejected it mainly because I don't want to have remember, or take the time, to uninstall it before creating a Ghost image. Also, it seems there have been dependability issues with previous versions and I'm looking for a mature and very dependable solution.
    And after HDS's strange treatment of FD-ISR, their out-of-date knowledge base (most FD-ISR info is still about Wkstn and not Rescue even though it's not noted "Wkstn" or "Rescue") and their hard to use forum, I am leery of going with either FD-ISR Rescue or RBRx.
    However, lacking a comparable option so far, and since FD-ISR Rescue apparently still has the core of FD-ISR Wkstn I'm still considering it because it might be a good software, even given HDS's many shortcomings.
    I've seen ShadowProtect mentioned and it looks similar. I was hoping for your advice and help deciding. Thanks.
     
  2. ErikAlbert

    ErikAlbert Registered Member

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    According my readings FDISR Rescue is able to handle softwares, that require a reboot during installation. I didn't test this myself, so you better do this yourself during the trial period of 15 days.

    You have to test two things regarding reboot-softwares
    1. Can you keep the reboot-software in FDISR Rescue, if you like it.
    2. Can you remove the reboot-software in FDISR Rescue, if you don't like it.

    Removing softwares without a trace is one of the big benefits of ISR-softwares.
    The perfect uninstaller for new unwanted softwares.

    ShadowProtect Desktop = Image Backup software and not the same as
    FirstDefense-ISR Rescue = Immediate System Recovery.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2008
  3. Hairy Coo

    Hairy Coo Registered Member

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    Pepperer

    Shadow Protect isnt an ISR and recovery takes about 8 minutes rather than a few.
    You would have to decide whether thats acceptable to you as far as software testing is concerned-for me it is,as I wouldnt test more than a few per day and for the straightforward ones which arent likely to leave any problems behind,I just uninstall normally.

    It turns out that with the current version 8.1 of Rollback there is a command line which can be used for the problem you mentioned.

    "Originally Posted by Empath
    You don't have to uninstall Rollback Rx 8.1 in order to defrag or use imaging software. You do have to reset your baseline, which destroys all other images. Then you enter the line command: shieldcmd.exe /defrag

    Once the line command is made, Rollback will permit the defrag software to do it's thing, and you don't destroy untitled non-conforming type image files."

    So it looks like RB could be the answer if you find the restore of SP too slow.

    Worth testing!
     
  4. GarySugar

    GarySugar Registered Member

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    Pepperer, I think you should try FDISR Rescue. It does have the main, immediate boot to restore functionality that interests you. You seem a little worried about long-term support from HDS. I don't know what other people think; but I've personally never called Raxco for support. I've had a few problems with incompatibilities here and there, but nothing I couldn't manage. For example, I wouldn't have figured out for myself to disable Comodo Firewall's registry self-protect option, but I did know right away to uninstall Comodo and try something else. So that worked out fine even though I didn't see the support explanation at Raxco until a month or two later. Overall, I think that if you have a full disk image on a second or external disk, you'll have nothing to worry about. What do other people think?
     
  5. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    pepperer - from what you have said I would have thought that FD-ISR Rescue
    would suit. I'm assuming that FD-ISR lets you have a primary and secondary snapshot ? so you install to the secondary, play and then copy the primary over the secondary to get back to the start.

    The imaging and defrag issues with RBRx would put me off. If Ghost works why waste money on ShadowProtect ?

    Personally I am happy to use Acronis to make an image, to install any new program, to test and to then restore. I could use the Original FD-ISR but find old habits hard to break and still prefer to keep things simple with full images. I don't think the time differences are all that significant - just personal choice really.
     
  6. pepperer

    pepperer Registered Member

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    Thanks everybody.
    Thanks. Yes, this is the main functionality I am looking for.

    Does SP require booting to DOS as my version of Ghost does? How would you compare its speed to Ghost's? (In case you've never used the DOS version of Ghost, including the reboot to DOS and the reboot back to Windows, saving a 13GB image to a USB HD takes about 30-40 minutes, but getting it to recognize my external USB drive can be difficult depending on the direction of the wind outside. Overall it isn't an unattended process)

    I didn't know about this and it is much better than having to uninstall it, but still having to reset the baseline and losing the incremental restore point images when making a Ghost image is probably a deal breaker at this point for me.

    I'm glad I read about this here because I use Comodo's FW v2.x. Does it not bother you too much to lose this self-protection of Comodo's?
    Me too.
    I was looking to see if it was much faster/easier than Ghost.
    Do you know how ATI's speed compares the the DOS version of Ghost's speed from beginning to end of process?
    Me too, but if ISR is dependable then I'd love to cut restore times to just a few minutes and still rely on Ghost images for my backups.
    Thanks again everybody. I appreciate your help.
     
  7. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    HI pepperer

    For quite a while, before the archives were introduced, I used FDISR, exactly as FDISR-Rescue is now, and loved it. Save me many times, and yes still is quicker then an image restore(well depends on how big c: is)

    As for HDS support, when I've played with Rollback, and contacted them, the response has been fine.

    Pete
     
  8. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Sorry no idea how fast Acronis is compared to Ghost. There are so many variables to consider - CPU - drives - size of image - partition v whole drive.

    As I write I'm restoring C: on a laptop for my wife - total time just under 5 minutes. Yet I have read of others taking 10 or 20 minutes to restore - I think imaging is more of a black art than anything else.
     
  9. GarySugar

    GarySugar Registered Member

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    Pepperer, I haven't tried ShadowProtect. Acronis TI is much faster than Ghost 2002 or 2003; but the speed also depends on the connection. With any program, imaging to a second internal drive is faster than imaging to a USB drive. I backup 23 GB from c: to a USB drive with Acronis in 15 minutes, but Ghost 2003 takes more than twice as long. I don't have a second internal drive in my laptop, but I'm guessing that's you need to get 8 minute backups.

    About firewalls, I'll just tell my story fwiw. I was using ZoneAlarm Pro when I installed FDISR. That worked fine. Then I tried Comodo and immediately noticed problems with FDISR, so I uninstalled Comodo and reinstalled ZoneAlarm. Then I read the topic about Comodo at Raxco, but I wasn't really interested in Comodo anymore. Since then, I've tried Sunbelt Kerio successfully, and more recently Online Armor (free version), which I'm still using without problems.
     
  10. Hairy Coo

    Hairy Coo Registered Member

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    Pepperer,

    The speed of Shadow Protect will of course depend partially on Image size and computer speed.
    As regards image size mine is about 18gb.

    SP is the fastest backup app I have tested by a big margin-much faster than True Image or Ghost.
    I have a schedule for a full backup weekly which takes 8 minutes-then for daily incremental backups at one hour intervals which take about 20seconds-yes 20 SECONDS.
    A restore takes about 7 minutes and DOS is absolutely unheard of.

    It has other advantages such as bare metal recovery of Windows.

    Suggest you try it out by requesting a full evaluation HERE

    As mentioned I am using it instead of an ISR-yes its slower but I dont test that much software etc-but its a complete straightforward imaging solution.

    I have a fast computer as regards the times,but no matter what,your times will be substantially better than with Ghost or ATI
     
  11. Huupi

    Huupi Registered Member

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    Times to do restore/backup in your situation is not out of the ordinary with SP,sure it is as compared with the others,i backup/restore 14 gig. in one run in 7.05 min.I admit the boot of the recovery is bit clumsy,it takes 1.30 min. to get there.But overall its a very fast, and did i say very reliable,never failed one bit on me.

    7 min to do a backup/restore with 14 gig. looks amazing but in all honesty its done on a very highend rig[raptors and fast duocores]
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2008
  12. Hairy Coo

    Hairy Coo Registered Member

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    Huupi

    Yes-that recovery boot is slow,especially in Legacy mode-I guess that has to be added.
     
  13. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    Hairy - I think a little care is needed here. substantially better ? without knowing the system - is that not a little dangerous ?

    For a bit of fun I have just now made an image of C: which is 10.1 gb ignoring swapfile etc. Time to backup 4 min 40sec. So for 18 gb I would calculate a time of 8 min 20 seconds.

    Not what I would call a substantial difference. I like Acronis but accept that Paragon ( which didn't work for me) and Shadow Protect and several others are all contenders and that results can and do vary.

    Not sure what the weather is like in the Northern Beaches at this time of year- but would hate to think that you were coming down with a case of fdisritis :eek:o
     
  14. Hairy Coo

    Hairy Coo Registered Member

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    Longview-

    I ran ATI on the same current system,therefore I am using exactly the same the criteria.

    At best ATI was about twice as slow,at worst much slower,from memory Paragon was even slower.

    My imaging takes about 8 minutes so your calculations are spot on.

    As you can see I'm using a duo core CPU (with 2gb of RAM),but Huupi's times seem also in keeping.

    Yes you are right about that FDISR sickness which seems to be sweeping the world like the flu-must take precautions:D Life aint too bad down here-off to do a spot of kayaking!
     
  15. pepperer

    pepperer Registered Member

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  16. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    I don't have SP so can't compare but if SP is twice as fast as ATI does that mean my times will fall to 4 mins :D

    The machine I was using was a Core 2 duo 6300 1.86 ghz 2 gb of ram. I use 2 small 150 gb drives one for C: and progs and one for data. My experience with Acronis is that it like to image drives rather than partitions
     
  17. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    "bare metal" means a blank drive, right off the shelf and into your machine.

    But in reality the way I do my restores, makes them essentially bare metal. I always delete the volume first. Although technically the data is still there, the partition structure is wiped out. I then restore the partition from the image.

    Pete

    Pete
     
  18. Hairy Coo

    Hairy Coo Registered Member

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    Pepperer,

    The unique feature is the HIR-hardware independent recovery of backup images to a different system-other similar apps. cant do this!
     
  19. Hairy Coo

    Hairy Coo Registered Member

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    If you overclock your 6300 you will fly.:thumb:

    Not criticizing TI, used it for years,but for my usage,I now prefer SP
     
  20. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    I couldn't resist and anyway I had meant to do this for a long time so I downloaded the SP demo and uninstalled Acronis without incident. did a bit of reg cleaning to hopefully remove any last bits of Acronis and then ran a full image.

    Time taken 5 min 19 seconds. I know one test is hardly scientific but with Acronis 10 coming in at 4 minutes 40 seconds I think it is safe to conclude that any comparison of software has to be on the same hardware for meaningful results.
    In practice all any of use can do is try them all and go for the one that works best for us. recommendations from others, whilst interesting, should not be overly relied upon.
     
  21. Hairy Coo

    Hairy Coo Registered Member

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    Pete,

    May have asked you before,but is there an advantage by doing this, for example,wiping out all malware properly?
     
  22. Long View

    Long View Registered Member

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    I don't get any choice. restoring to a drive rather than to a partition there is a question "do you want to delete all partition on the destination drive" ? unless you answer yes you can not continue.

    with the same sized OS in a partition on the same drive imaging and restoring are measurably slower.
     
  23. Hairy Coo

    Hairy Coo Registered Member

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    Cant explain your fast speeds with True Image-all I can say is that I found TI variable especially in recovery,where the worst time was just ridiculous,approaching the hour with the Linux recovery disk.

    Despite your qualifying statement ,I would be surprised if SP wasnt generally faster than TI.

    Whilst apps. will work differently on different computers,objectively and accurately some are just faster than others,no matter on which computer they are used.

    And what about incremental backups-what are the TI speeds-can you approach 20 secs:)
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2008
  24. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    When I get to the restore destination, I don't check the box. First I right click and then select delete volume. This then shows as an unformatted, unknown volume. I right click again, and select recreate partition from image at begining of the drive.

    Note, I only have 1 partition and that might make a difference.
     
  25. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Long time ago, I trained myself to do things by habit. Less likely to make a mistake.

    WHen I was putting HIR thru the wringer, I'd shrink partitions, and all sorts of other crazy stuff. Finally to restore, and put my machine back together, I wanted to start clean. Hence delete the volume, recreate the parition from the image, restore mbr from image, restore track 0 and disk signature. That way I ensured putting it back the way it was when I imaged. It just became habit.

    As to wiping out malware. Interesting, you should ask. Check out this thread. New style of rootkit, in the mbr. Apparently the way to get rid of it is FIXMBR from the recovery console. Another good reason for restoring the mbr from the image.

    Pete
     
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