Shadow Protect, FDISR, and Rollback RX

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Peter2150, May 29, 2007.

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  1. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Yet another screwy test.

    Background. Setting up a new tablet, and wanted something, but disk space was a concern and I won't be "testing" on this machine so I decided to take another look at Rollback Rx. First thing I did was install it in a virtual machine, and beat up on it. All the testing that follows was done on the VM machine. Passed fine. This got me thinking.

    For speed and disk space Rollback is a hands down winner. But for backup, that's another story. One of the prize features for me has been being able to image less frequently, and before installing anything, updating an FDISR archive. Then if I had big problems, I could always restore an image, no matter how old, and then get current with the FDISR archive. Tested and tried an true.

    Note here my only real concern is recovery to a current state. Old and varied snapshots aren't important, although with a little imagination....

    When I installed Rollback for the first time, I forgot to uninstall FDISR. This didn't seem to cause a problem and so once I had Rollback working, I tried booting to my FDISR secondary. Couldn't log in, kept blue screening. But I got to thinking, and thus the "experiment"

    1) Started clean, with FDISR and my 2 snapshots. I imaged the system with SP, and then created a FDISR archive on the 2nd drive,

    2) Removed the secondary snapshot so I just had FDISR, but no snapshots. I then installed Rollback Rx, and did my thing with it. All is working fine. I then made some drastic changes to this machine, so it was radically different from when I started. Took a final snapshot with Rollback Rx, and then used FDISR to update the archive, I had made off disk. It seemed to work fine, checking the log file.

    Now the fun. Assume something went wrong, and I can't boot with Rollback, uninstall or whatever.

    3) Booted to my SP recovery disk, and restored the image using the delete volume step, and restoring partition,mbr and track 0. Rebooted. System was like it was when I started. No trace of Rollback Preboot, or anything.

    4) Booted to the secondary snapshot, restored from the image. Then refreshed the primary snapshot from the archive, and holding breath rebooted.

    5) No rollback preboot screen and machine came up looking exactly like it was when I refreshed the archive. No sign of Rollback. I tried firing it up from the start menu and it said it was uninstalled. I suspected that was because it wasn't in the mbr, so I did an uninstall, and it actually removed the program. None of the normal snapshot questions. Just removed the program.

    6) I then did a reinstall of Rollback and it worked just fine. It was like a clean install.

    In summary, I was able to image like I do now, use Rollback with it's advantages, but also keep an FDISR archive current, to use in a disaster recovery scenario. For me the best of both worlds.

    Next step try Rollback on my raid 0 drives.

    Pete

    PS. To anyone wondering why I use a VM machine, you can do all this stuff, and when done, wipe it all out.
     
    Peter2150, May 29, 2007
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  2. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    Rollback Rx is not forgiving for me anyway, but no matter, FD-ISR does everythign and more plus affords a simle option on Uninstall to retain snapshots, i don't think Rollback RX is as liberal.
     
    EASTER.2010, May 29, 2007
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  3. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

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    Hi Pete,

    I have used a similar setup on my raid 0 drives, where I was booting back and forth between XP and Vista using FDISR, and archiving both on external drive.

    I suggest that if you are only using XP, stick to Rollback V7 which is known to be stable. I have had some major chkdsk problems with V8 where I was only saved by ATI. I have uninstalled v8 and deleted the Vista snapshot and l might be going back to v7 in the next few days. I am still debating and in the meantime, happily using FDISR. I really do miss the quick snapshots, and being able to quickly boot between them, but the chkdsk problems with Version 8 has me a little leery. These problems occurred on two computers, one with raid 0 and one without.

    Silver
     
    silver0066, May 30, 2007
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  4. nexstar

    nexstar Registered Member

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    I'm sure that this is going to end up being a stupid question......but I need to know :) .......

    What benefit do you get from having FDISR in this scenario? I haven't been able to trial ShadowProtect yet but, wouldn't 15 minute incremental snapshots with SP keep you current with your data and allow you to restore the system in case of disaster?

    I would agree with others about sticking to version 7 of RB. The only 'benefit' that I can see with V8 is the snapshot backup and that's just not worth having in its current form.
     
    nexstar, May 30, 2007
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  5. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    I haven't tried taking an SP image with Rollback installed. The 15 minute incremental is something I do on the machine I primarily use for business. I don't run the incrementals on my other machine, as I don't have the same need.

    Basically I prefer imaging with Rollback uninstalled, so the FDISR archive still remains an easy way to stay current without imaging. Incrementals aren't great, if you are testing, and installing and uninstalling a lot.

    Pete
     
    Peter2150, May 30, 2007
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  6. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Silver

    Is the latest version of 7 still available. I have my keys for that.

    Pete
     
    Peter2150, May 30, 2007
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  7. Atomas31

    Atomas31 Registered Member

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    Atomas31, May 30, 2007
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  8. nexstar

    nexstar Registered Member

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    Understood. I agree on incrementals. I normally make differentials using Drive Snapshot which seems to do this in the background with very little impact on the system. I keep a pre-rollback image for testing other recovery software and various RB images with snapshots for when things really go wrong!

    Graham
     
    nexstar, May 30, 2007
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  9. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Hi Atomas and Silver

    Actually found I had 7.2.1, may key issue, but main thing is I put it on and found no performance difference between 7 and 8. I kind of like the look and feel of 8, and it held up when I tortured it, so if I do have to spend a buck I may go with v8.


    It did fine on the raid system.


    Pete
     
    Peter2150, May 30, 2007
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  10. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    I don't have a RAID array on any of my systems, so I can't offer any advice re RB and RAID.

    However, I'm running RB v8 on my test system and I have twice experienced chkdsk problems (deja vue of like v7 problems a year ago)! :p

    RB v7 (latest build) continues to be rock-solid on my 'production' desktop and laptop. :thumb:

    ~pv
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2007
    pvsurfer, May 30, 2007
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  11. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    RB was working fine on my raid 0 system. When I first put 8 on the VM, I setup about 6 snapshots with totally different software and first made sure they were all good. Then I parked in the middle one and tortured it, with multiple power resets at various points in the boot process. I did end up with one chkdsk, but all was fine, and all the snapshots were fine.

    I haven't tortured it on the desktop, but neither have I seen chkdsk issues.

    Pete
     
    Peter2150, May 30, 2007
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  12. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Like I said, I've had 2 such events with v8 (once after attempting a snapshot-defrag using RB's Windows GUI), but my snapshots were not corrupted.
     
    pvsurfer, May 30, 2007
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  13. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    I keep RollbackRx 7 on another box and works to perfection. Did experience some difficulty on another one though with V.8, so thats out.

    FD-ISR remains King of the Hill. The best part you can access ANY snapshot files your heart pleases and even copy them if that's your speed, provided you have Paragon Volume Explorer OR XYplorer program to do those chores.
     
    EASTER.2010, May 30, 2007
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  14. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Easter, what's the big deal? -- you can do all of that with RB and you don't need any other app in order to do it! ;)

    ~pv
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2007
    pvsurfer, May 30, 2007
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  15. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    Rollback DOES NOT create Copies of EVERY files like FD-ISR and forms the whole into several bootable snapshots, just ONE.

    Rollback RX only references from a single baseline. I got this on good authority plus my Hard Drive measurements bare that out.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 31, 2007
    EASTER.2010, May 30, 2007
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  16. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Okay guys. Actually the setup is working very well on my desktop, but the whole thing screeched to a halt for the tablet. When I installed Rollback on the tablet it messed up the Thinkpad Disk monitor. Since that is part of the sensor system to shutdown the drive incase of being dropped, on the tablet I consider this more valuable then the Rollback features.

    In summary the SP,FDISR,Rollback approach is working on the desktop, but Rollback flunks on the tablet. I suspect because of the way it modifies the disk file system.

    Experiment over.
     
    Peter2150, May 31, 2007
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  17. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Easter, I'm trying (honestly I am), but I truly don't get it. o_O o_O o_O
     
    pvsurfer, May 31, 2007
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  18. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    EASTER.2010, May 31, 2007
    #18
  19. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Easter, I'm not suggesting that RB functions similar to FD-ISR (I do not use FD-ISR, so I can't speak for the way it works). However, I'm quite knowledgeable on using Rollback Rx, and I am telling you that it absolutely has the capability to restore any folder or file from any of its snapshots, copying it to your current snapshot, or to another RB snapshot - without having to use any other application.

    That said, I bid you goodnight. ~pv
     
    pvsurfer, May 31, 2007
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  20. EASTER.2010

    EASTER.2010 Guest

    Of that i don't know how we got into debate in the first place. I don't deny Rollback Rx can't restore to a saved point because thats what it's designed to do. I think i was pointing out that FD-ISR is vastly more flexible in that unlike Rollback, you can SAVE archives which essentially can be transformed right back into snapshots again and to the limit of 10, whereas with FD-ISR, again, you can have UNLIMITED archives and that is a real confidence builder should anything go wrong.

    If Rollback Rx malfunctioned in anyway, you don't have that capability. I experienced a Rollback Rx problem and there were no ARCHIVES per say to reinvent my system again, i had to start all over from a new install.

    That is a HUGE difference in reliability AND liability if you happen to have important data on drive that you need to access without having to resort to Ultimate BootDisk or another to rescue them.

    Thats all i'm saying.
     
    EASTER.2010, May 31, 2007
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  21. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Actually both programs have advantages and disadvantages. Whole point of this when combined with an imaging program that restores mbr and track 0 you can potentially use them both.

    Pete
     
    Peter2150, May 31, 2007
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  22. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

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    The ability to quickly archive snapshots to an external drive. Not available in Rollback.
     
    silver0066, May 31, 2007
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  23. silver0066

    silver0066 Registered Member

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    Pete,

    After using Rollback v7 for several months without problems, I decided to try v8. It worked very reliably for a couple of weeks, then all of a sudden, I had chkdsk problems and it crashed on two different systems, wiping out the FD-ISR snapshots and requiring a Recovery from an image.

    I know you keep good backups, so it won't be a problem for you, but this behavior could certainly affect a novice who is only using system restore.

    Silver
     
    silver0066, May 31, 2007
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  24. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    I believe our dispute is due to semantics (not to be confused with Symantec)! It sounded to me as if you were questioning RB's ability to restore specific files from one snapshot and copy them to another. In any case, let's just drop it.

    I am not FD-ISR literate, but I am RB-knowledeable. I'm sure that each product has its advantages and disadvantages when compared to the other product. The most important issue is whether or not the software does what the user expects from it. In my case, RB does just that, whereas you prefer FD-ISR, and I can accept that, can you? ;)
     
    pvsurfer, May 31, 2007
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  25. nexstar

    nexstar Registered Member

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    Wouldn't that have effectively been covered by the SP 15 minute incrementals though? Which Peter wasn't actually doing as it turned out but was what prompted the question:) .

    Graham
     
    nexstar, May 31, 2007
    #25
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