Security, Time to put up or shut up.

Discussion in 'other anti-virus software' started by trjam, Feb 20, 2007.

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  1. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

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    The name of the game is profits. Not what a select group feels is the best way to "totally " protect a PC. The evils are lurking and changing day to day, and vendors have got to invest the effort to accomplish this, or basically find their profit margin shrinking into the realm of not being able to survive. Consumers want one product to buy, security purchases are not high on the scope of their personal finances, and protect their precious computers from whatever they may do. Consumers are basically demanding this. Vendors are hard pressed to integrate the means for accomplishing this, but it comes with a high price tag. I myself feel that within 2 years the number of solid vendors will shrink, not grow. Security is the issue, and having to have 5 icons in your tray that most consumers dont understand, is not going to cut it. So good luck to all he vendors, and merging your great single application with a strong leader is where the future lies.

    And if I were to follow this lead today, Kaspersky and Norton would get my vote, but with some waited anticipation for Esets new suite.
     
  2. C.S.J

    C.S.J Massive Poster

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    this forum is biased!
    erm ....


    *hums the tune to happy days* :D
     
  3. Old Monk

    Old Monk Registered Member

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    Hi Trjam

    Interesting thread and marketing of security products is something I've been thinking about today would you believe.

    As I see it, there are distinct markets here. One comprises the knowledgable or those willing to learn who frequent forums such as Wilders and others and the other who go with whatever is pre-installed on their PC when they buy it.

    I've always wondered if there was any commercial sense in some of the products we actively discuss here and the makers of TDS and PG may throw some light on that.

    Let's be honest, how many Moms and Dads would a/ frequent these forums and similar and b/ assume the suggestions made here were in their best interests.

    What I mean is how many 'Moms' would on even with the best of advice change from Norton/McAfee to NOD32/Kaspersky

    I actually don't think your premise from my point of view has actually changed in the last 18 months

    I think there will always be a niche market for good security products but how to break into mass market appeal is another question
     
  4. JerryM

    JerryM Registered Member

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    I think that as long as McAvee and Norton come installed on new computers AVs such as Kaspersky and NOD are not going to be especially popular with the average user.
    In addition, they do not want an AV that they have to tweak, or try to fix by sending dmkp files to the developer.

    I have an impression, maybe wrong, that the two biggies run pretty well on computers, and that is a great advantage. I also know that Best Buy often recommends Trend Micro PCCillen. My son bought a new laptop, and that was the recommended AV. So far he likes it better than McAfee.

    I know that many will yell, "Norton/McAfee will never be installed on my computer." However, they will remain the leaders as long as they come installed, and people do not want to change. They also work.

    Best,
    Jerry
     
  5. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    So it's not popularity:doubt: but business between PC manufacturers and AV companys, having nothing to do with choice. Is that it?
     
  6. trjam

    trjam Registered Member

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    That is exactly it. If I were Kaspersky, I would sign an agreement with HP to come preinstalled with KIS. Over the long haul, it is what will take you to the next level.
     
  7. C.S.J

    C.S.J Massive Poster

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    this forum is biased!
    only to a small minded person is it that :)

    people should only choose an AV on their own testing and likeness of the software, if your happy... who gives a damn :p

    sure, someone can say, this is a poor AV, but if you like it, and it does its job for what you do on your machine, who cares, i definatly dont like the 99.95% detection advertising or whatever.
     
  8. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    It more the "who cares" that counts;) , prior to anything. No choice is made. Either to stick with it, or change it.
     
  9. Chuck57

    Chuck57 Registered Member

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    Our neighbor recently bought a new PC. It had antivirus but not installed. She ran it for over a month before my wife noticed it wasn't installed and installed it for her. That was about four months ago. It was a trial subscription and expired 90 days later. The woman didn't realize that the antivirus had to be purchased if she wanted continued protection - and didn't seem to care.
     
  10. TonyW

    TonyW Registered Member

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    Nice idea, but the only problem with that is others have beaten them to it, namely McAfee/Norton, and they seem to have a stranglehold in this arena.
     
  11. Graystoke

    Graystoke Registered Member

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    This is a very interesting thread. I have a little story to tell. One day when I had nothing better to do, and just for the fun of it, I thought I would call a few of the local computer shops in my area, and ask their opinion on what AV I should use. I called seven shops. These were all locally owned shops. No chain stores such as Staples or Best Buy. I told the same story to them all; that I was new to computers, that I thought I needed an AV, and what would they recommend. All of them told me that all AVs are basically the same. Five recommended Norton. The other two recommended Trend Micro because it was lighter than Norton.

    I mentioned that I read an article in a computer magazine about other AVs such as AVG, NOD32, KAV and AntiVir . They said they've heard of them, but don't recommend them because the average customer never heard of them, and probably would only trust Norton, McAfee or Trend Micro anyway.

    Just from that little unscientific experiment, I don't know if the lesser known security companies can compete with the big guys in the long run. Lets hope they can. Competition is alway good.
     
  12. lodore

    lodore Registered Member

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    just think preinstalled kaspersky is easier to remove if you dont want to use it
    lodore
     
  13. avenger107

    avenger107 Registered Member

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    Personally, I usually use NOD and other applications I consider "best of breed' at the moment. I like to tinker with this stuff. My wife uses KIS. I try to keep up with the KIS beta adventures so I can advise her when it is a good idea (and safe) to upgrade. All good stuff.

    For my friends and acquaintances, who already have something pre-installed on their machines (usually some flavor of Norton), I advise them to renew what they already have. I am just to danged lazy to want to try and help each one of them figure out how to completely uninstall what they have, then install and configure some other solution. Other products may be better, but what they have is good enough, and not worth their effort and mine to replace.
     
  14. ejr

    ejr Registered Member

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    I agree with the initial sentiment of this thread. Most computer users want :

    A. One piece of software to stop all online threats that
    B. Must be easy enough for grandma to use

    The people like us that frequent these forums are the exception, not the rule.

    I also agree with whoever made the point about the driving factor in the industry being the deals made between PC Manaufacturers and security software vendors. For someone that doesn't really care all that much about PC Security, whatever came on the machine is probably good enough.

    So if you want to be a serious player in the market (in terms of revenue) I think you should:

    1. Offer an "Internet Security" suite and
    2. See if you can get it preinstalled on people's machines

    I don't think that all in one suites provide the best protection. But I can certainly see their appeal.
     
  15. nixie21

    nixie21 Registered Member

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    It is true. It is all about the name. If I did not come to these forums, I would NEVER of heard about Nod (which I love!) or KIS or AVG for that matter. Everone I know has Mcafee or Norton, thats it, because it was on their computer when they got it. As someone else mentioned, I also just recommend family keep what came on the computer since it is easy to use and already there.
     
  16. Mr2cents

    Mr2cents Registered Member

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    I do the same thing. I always recommend renewing the antivirus that came preinstalled on their computer. That's almost always norton, sometimes mcafee. If I recommend an antivirus that my friends haven't heard of. Then they install it and get into trouble at some future point. Guess what their going to say to me. If I would have had norton...this wouldn't have happened !!!!!

    They may be right. The customer is always right. Their is one scenario that I will suggest one other antivirus. Let's say someone is totally disgusted with norton. Not picking on norton here...just an analogy. I'll say something like. Well, their is one other antivirus that comes preinstalled on lots of new computers called Mcafee. You may want to try that.

    If they choose to install mcafee, and get into trouble at some future point...my butt is covered. Because Mcafee like norton is a famous brand name. I believe this is probably one of the reasons so many computer shops recommend norton. If the consumer gets into trouble with norton or mcafee..it's no big deal. These 2 products are household names.

    However, if a computer shop owner puts an antivirus product on a consumers computer, that they have never heard of. Then if that consumers computer gets infected at some future point. They will say the same thing to him. If I would have had Norton or Mcafee. This wouldn't have happened.

    Guess what the consumer is going to do? They will be taking their computer to a different computer shop. The shop that didn't recommend norton or mcafee will not only lose a sale. They will eventually get a bad reputation.

    Then when you get a bad reputation in any business. Your business will most likely foldup, and go out of business. Bad news travels fast. To sum it up. I only recommend the household names..Norton and Mcafee. 2 things you don't want to mess up is someones computer, or their cellphone. ;)

    I do recommend one additional product to add to their antivirus. I always tell them about Boclean.
     
  17. Macstorm

    Macstorm Registered Member

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    If only would be that easy :rolleyes:

    HP is an U.S. company existing under american laws (you know what I mean), but Kaspersky... :D

    ______________________________________________________________________________________________________
     
  18. Mrkvonic

    Mrkvonic Linux Systems Expert

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    Hello,
    Or you can avoid the entire fuss and switch to a communist OS that has no problems.
    Mrk
     
  19. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    Or advising a freeware AV: Avast! or Antivir. They will not be worst of, and pay nothing. They won't complain either.
     
  20. CReal

    CReal Registered Member

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    This is the big and sore truth.It's ALL about the name.A few days ago in a non computer related forum,a member was bombarding me with pleads to help her find a working crack for...Norton of course.Even people who use pirated software,are in love with Norton and trust nobody else!It was useless to try to convince here that she can put AntiVir,which is IMHO better than Norton and FREE.I also proposed her the AOL Active Shield and swore that the Kaspersky engine is better than Norton.She simply thanked me and continued her quest for Norton crack on her own. :blink: o_O

    Some people are almost psychologically conditioned by the name.For them Norton is the only true antivirus and all the rest are just hopeless imitation.It's unbeleivable that people have even FREE alternatives to it,yet they prefer using pirated Norton and waste entire days trying to find a crack for it.

    Not to mention that i would NEVER install Norton on my PC ,even if they had gifted it to me.I would prefer AVG Free ,more humble,but light and easy to uninstall.
     
  21. Firecat

    Firecat Registered Member

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    Not surprising, really. The reason that monopolies are created and software of a certain company is at the top is simply due to:

    1) Corporate deals involving lots of money
    2) Society (which is IMO responsible for a *lot* of bad things happening today, but that is another subject for another time.)

    You see, suppose Joe/Jane goes to Fry's and looks for an AV and picks up BitDefender, and goes home. He/she shows it to his/her friend or neighbour saying that "see, I got this for my PC. What do you think?". Friend/Neighbour has absolutely no idea and says that he/she uses Norton which works very well, and advises him/her to be safe and return BitDefender and get Norton.

    The biggest problem is that people rely on what others say to make their decisions. Just because something works for someone does not mean it works for everyone. As for the corporates, they are just after more coin....Symantec's cheap for OEM packages, and they can offer the customer a crap 90-days package for which they have to pay less $$$ to Symantec, and still claim happily that all their PCs come with state of the art, long lasting virus protection.

    I think that as far as the US goes, nothing will get Symantec and McAfee's market reign down. The best option for up and coming vendors is to establish a good user base with high marketshare in their own country of origin. Word travels fast from country to country, and it is comparitively easy to grasp marketshare from other countries than the US, especially in Europe since Europeans often travel from one European country to another. The good word is spread around easily and this leads to more sales.
     
  22. CReal

    CReal Registered Member

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    I fully agree.Specially with people that don't want to find out anything on their own,it's exactly what happens.They ask their friend,who knows a notch above nothing,hear "Norton" and that's it.Many people when you tell them "why don't you buy NOD32 instead or Kaspersy,they are better",they look at you with suspicion and say "Kaspe...what?".It's almost hopeless.I m in in Europe and beleive me,Norton and McAfee are clearly dominant.Fortunately,as you say,mainly Kaspersky,NOD32 ,Panda and PC-Cillin are gaining *some* ground,mainly through pubblicity in computer magazines and reccomendations in forums.Yet,most shops reserve only a small angle for the "dark horses" and a big one for the 2 "favorites" ,Norton and McAfee.Finding in stores boxed versions of other AV brands is the exception,not the rule.Also the salesmen,like "true" experts,upon question,they usually advice those two as "very good and with a long successful history in their past".So the vicious circle continues.

    As for the corporate world,i beleive you.It's obvious that the 2 big boys ,with so many years of dominance in the market behind them,have the contacts and money to make big deals at low cost for the buyer.With my last motherboard,i also got in the CD ,who else...NIS,which i didn't install ,so i don't know whether it's a limited trial version or a full one.In the old days,Taiwanese motherboard manufacturers prefered to promote PC-Cillin with their motherboards.Now NIS has infiltrated their market too...

    The funny is that all these people install Norton,then sooner or later a "bad" year comes,with update or stability or performance problems,yet they don't change antivirus the year after.Most i ve talked to,didn't even think that the "divine" Norton could slow down their PC.Others simply bitch a bit,but then they hear you advicing them to buy that weird Russian thing or that other NOD stuff,shake their head and order Norton once more.I don't know,maybe the name counts too.Maybe the yellow also,since it's the colour that strikes the eye most easily...The only hope seems if other companies start heavy advertizing,which though costs a lot of money that can't be easily afforded by lesser companies and hope to catch the attention of the youth,that today is more experienced with the PCs,so is also more aware of the situation and on their turn they can influence their parents and friends.Or make a free version like AVG or Avast to use as reputation booster.People get to know free ones pretty fast.
     
  23. Pedro

    Pedro Registered Member

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    I know intelligent people, my friends:)
    When they realize they have Avast! or Antivir or AVG to choose, they will never get another.
    They just need/needed to be aware of the fact that there are freeware alternatives that are about the same thing.
    You just have to explain it better. Show them reviews if they need. Just don't advise payware to people who don't care. Save them some bucks.
     
  24. CReal

    CReal Registered Member

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    I know.To that girl i proposed all freebies,so she wouldn't have to use pirate av,because maybe she is still a student like me,so she doesn't want to spend money for AV.But she just couldn't be convinced.Some also have the idea that "if it's free,it's crap".I showed her the link of AV Comparatives too,but to no avail.She is a Norton-maniac and she's not the only one.I don't know,they 're like drugged.

    Others do buy Norton ,complain about weird things with their PC,yet they don't want to change.Personally i m full of freebie applications,from Oo to my firewall.But some people maybe just can't believe that you can do the same job with free AV.

    On the other hand,when i see that the person in front of me,does want to buy an AV,i reccomend Kaspersky and NOD,because i think they deserve more support.I bought Kaspersky 5 too once,not because i really needed a paid AV,but because i thought that once in a while ,i could spend some money rewarding a dark horse that was coming up with big effort into the absolute reign of Norton-McAfee.And the next time i ll be in a PC store,if i m in a good mood ,i ll probably buy NOD,because i HATE bloated programs and i want everything to run as light as possible.Although i 'd be fine with Antivir or AVG or Avast (but i don't like Avast so much),if i have spare money,i ll give them to NOD,just as a small encouragement for their effort to make a LIGHT and top tier AV and the struggle to squeeze themselves between the dinosaurs.
     
  25. Perman

    Perman Registered Member

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    Hi, folks: Just my wishful thinking: In EU contries, let all PC makers in that community preinstall AVAST personal edition(freewares). Then, in US, all other PC makers, and perhaps its vast pc users will take a notice very quickly.:p
     
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