Security mania and bad experience with Panda Internet Security Platinum 2005.

I found out lately that I'm spending way too much time "securing" the PC instead of really using it for other purposes.

I may be a sort of paranoid people, but the first thing I'm doing when I turn the PC on is to click all "update" and "check for new version" buttons in my security software, visit some strategic bookmarks in order to make sure I didn't miss any major update etc …

Of course I avidly surf Wilders several times a day and enjoy it much.

My basic PC hobby has now turned into security software mania and the search for the ultimate antivirus, firewall, and antispyware applications.

It takes hours to read all different opinions you may find on the web about those topics and it takes also quite a long time to test these products, find the pros and the cons and then doubt about incompatibilities, finally believe system is lightly slowed down etc …

Most of my free time and "pocket-money" has been invested into security software and I sometimes believe it's purely ridiculous and exaggerated.

… and even when you find your ultimate security setup, it won't last long until new technologies come out and then "tease" you to try other apps and to make endless configuration tests (installing a software and getting it to work (without making other progs crashing) is quite often tricky, particularly with security apps)).

Also, I had the feeling that some of the software I am using were in "WORK IN PROGRESS" state, that is to say that, ok, they work, but you have to follow very closely the forums posts and the beta releases in order to get them to work flawlessly and efficiently.
For instance, the beta drivers of Look'n'stop, the installation of Phantom's rules, Blackspear's configuration of NOD32 etc

This was to explain you how I was feeling before I did …an awful mistake …

So, on Friday evening, I had a brilliant idea …

The best way for me to save time and to stop my "security mania" would be a set it and forget it security suite!!!
This way my system could be protected by an all-in-one solution with these advantages:

Globally low cost in comparison with separate products
Easy licensing (1 renewal each year)
Components designed to work together (so less incompatibilities)
Set it and forget it philosophy
Ease of use
Etc …

Now what product would be the best?

Norton and McAfee …hmmm no …
Kaspersky security suite …? Why not …
ZoneAlarm suite? Is there a good antivirus built in?
In the May issue of "l'ordinateur individuel" the winner of the AV comparative is Bitdefender … hmmmm

Panda internet security platinum 2005?
In a recent AV comparative test from PC Expert magazine (France), PAV won hands up. This was not only a detection test, but functions and virus deleting were also reviewed (but no NOD32, DR WEB etc …in the review).
I also found impressives online reviews of this suite.

So, ok, I decide to try Panda, by the way, I never tested it over the past years, maybe I had been missing a jewel for a while?

So, I made a clean uninstall of Nod32 (CU!), Look'n'stop and turned off other protections (registry, process guard …) and installed my new toy.

Ok, everything looks cool, nice GUI, not too many options, updating works, shields up test passed etc …).

On next reboot, Panda decided that SafetyBar was an unknown threat as well as Spysweeper! At that time the fat bicolor bear started scaring me …

It looks like unknown menace (heuristics? True Prevent ?) when set to high or medium was detecting many false positives.

When I wanted to have some fun with Half Life2 DeathMatch, the Panda quarantined my Steamclient.dll as being a menace … and made steam to crash.

I sended this file to Panda in order to make them analyze it and they confirmed it contained no virus …

The only way I could use steam / HL2DM was to set the unknown menace to low (recommended setting: medium).

Later a very reassuring bug (..) occurred : a red Panda windows (auto diagnostic?) popped up to tell me his unknown menace module encountered a problem and urged me to reboot!

As some people reported, I couldn't uninstall Panda as the uninstaller didn't find some files and crashed ! I was very upset and found no solution. I read that someone had the same issue and was provided by Panda with a special uninstalling tool as common methods don't work.

To perform a more serious test, I formatted my drive, made a fresh install of Win XP SP2 (without any other program) and reinstalled Panda … and uninstalled it … Wow! With a clean install on a fresh windows, it worked! At least this was solved.

I made some tests on my newly installed system, but still the same false positive problems.

The antispam module on Outlook Express was very, very ineffective in comparison with my usual Safetybar.
Incredible, even very easily recognizable spam "BUY VIAGRA" was not filtered!

System startup time was much longer than usually as well as the programs access.

Last but not least, Panda added many process in memory, and my usual 180 – 200 Mb used was close to 300 – 350 Mb!
I didn't make any "scientific" test on this Platinum internet security suite, but really, the bad feeling I have with it and the bad system behavior I experience are enough to disgust me.

So, finally, guess what?

Panda has now returned to his zoo and Nod32, his mates Look'n'stop, Safety bar, Diamond CS, Spysweeper and RegDefend are back on my computer…

As a conclusion, I have lost my week-end trying to set-up a supposed more mainstream and more transparent security system than my current one, but it turned out it would have made my system way less responsive and pleasant to use.

Latest news:

Once again, I made some changes:

After some reading, I wanted to give McAfee Viruscan another try as it's not talked so much about at Wilders' , but it looks like to be a very serious performer according to many reviews (for instance VTC comparative test).

I still had a yearly subscription for McAfee Viruscan 2005 + firewall + antispam, so I installed it again … but really, Antispam and Security Center are a shame … so it didn't stay long on my system.

Viruscan Enterprise 8.0i is much more pleasant, it really looks pro... but can't afford a 5 seat pack … and don't wish to use an unlicensed product . Too bad, I had a very good feeling with this one. " I have an ugly console interface, no Dolby Digital error sounds, no flashy popups, but I do my job, boy !"

So now, the new one on my system is Kaspersky Personal Pro … I will test it at last …

 

There's your first clue... it should have won hands down

But seriously? Lots of us are in the same chronic "must test new app" mode.

Some one call a doc!

[DrWeb fans ... please. no more talk about "the good doctor"]

EDIT :: I confirm most of what you said about PAV. It's Crappy as far as I'm concerned.

 

People need to chill out about PC Security. It's like a disease with some people, they get into it with an obsession that boggles the mind.

Just pick a decent AV, a good hardware firewall, and perhaps a good backend product like Safe'n'Sec, and enjoy your PC. For the last year or two i've used Dr.Web, and DesktopArmor. Then recently stopped using Desktop and changed to SNS. I don't even bother to try different security products anymore, why bother? I'm happy with what I have and I have better things to do than try 50 different products every month.

I'd much prefer to use my PC to play games. ;-)

There is absolutely no reason to have 50 different security applications on your PC. Just use Firefox, and 99% of all Spyware/Adware is removed from the equation anyway... Lets be realistic here. This whole security overdrive stuff going on smells like a Y2K type fear/hype syndrome to me.

 

Welcome to the club

The ironic thing is that us security freaks are the least likely to be infected.

My biggest weapon by far though is DRIVE IMAGE.

 

The other nice thing about Drive Image is the freedom it gives to mess about installing and uninstalling security software

 

Some people use their computers for games, some for multimedia, some just for internet. I am into the system itself and software, and most of all learning. I like to download and test out new apps, especially system and security stuff. There's nothing wrong with "going overboard" if you enjoy it, so long as it doesn't negatively impact the rest of your life (as with anything.) It's when you're compulsively doing it to ease your mind so that you can hopefully do something else that it becomes a problem, IMO (again, as with anything.)

If you enjoy playing with software, then do so. There's no reason to feel bad, and there is no excuse in the world for others to make judgment on what you enjoy.

 

The internet for you has sadly become a chore.

It does not have to be this way.
I have nearly 20 years experience in the security business both on and offline.

My startup regime? as follows:
start pc and turn on monitor.
thats it.


The only thing that goes on is my antivirus checking for updates which it will d/load on my approval.

Thats it

If adaware needs an update, it can wait, same with anything else, it can wait.

Security can get you too scared and too deep.

 

I think it a bit funny for posters like SDS909 to keep comming to WIlders, then saying they will not change secrity apps because they are satisfied with what they have.

My question is this.

If you are sosatisfied and could care less about any new programs or threats,
Why do you bother to still come to Wilders? Not ony are you still comming here but you are still posting. Um Duh? LOL

 

To be honest, I know exactly the program for me that will give me the highest chance of security available.

But I still come here, and always will.

I am in my mid 30's and yet I always have something to learn.

Security is not a single race, its a very long marathon.



Kev

ps
I believe that SDS909 has a lot of very good points and would agree with many.

 

I understand Tin

It is all the cool people here at Wilders that draw the atention

I for one of 30 some thousand amd also a software junkie and prolly always will be. My reasons are usualy not for security on my pc's at all but rather just the fun of testing the stuff andmay help others along the way.

I am sure even those that say they are comfy with their apps and won't change still get the temptation and I am guessing they have even tried the new rootkit programs that are comming out, since we know this is more or less a new area for most venders. Why wouldn't you if you read about rootkits and how the evade "most" software?
Maybe it is a difference in the caliber of peoples comming here.
Some doughters- some believers.
I am having a Karnak moment here Tin. IS that special program you talk about PG ? LOL

Bruce

 

Security mania is bad? On the contrary, I've been paid pretty handsomely by troubled neighbors for giving their systems a good scrub, allowing me to add more tools and therefore experience. I feel computer security will be a very in-demand sector as systems get more powerful, more widely adopted, and malware authors even more insidious. To each his own!

 

I think cqdx11 was denouncing the obsession with trying, testing, configuring, and constantly changing security software on your own system, and not the learning or applying of security in general.

I think that if you want to really learn about security, your time is better spent on things other than downloading and installing 5,000 "security" applications per week.

 

I probably install and try and test four or five antivirus programs a week. It is not because I am looking for security, I found the av I like to run years ago. But I want to know what the other av's are capable of and what users can expect when useing them. I do try other security apps besides av's but I do tend to stay with antivirus apps. I have learned a lot and passed along quite a bit of information to other computer users over the years. I am about to quit installing so many apps for a while. I will test new versions as they come out but it is time to just enjoy my internet time and spend more time here at wilders.

bigc

 

It could have something to do with the fact that I do virus work for some AV companies on the side, and own a corporation that specializes in network security.

Not all of us are scared hobby guys buying 1400 security products and fearing for our lives you know. Many of us actually do this for a living. Sometimes we like to check in here and see what the latest fearsome hype spreading about is. ;-)

 

let me tell you now sir, that human beings live off information... you can not deny the fact that someone may find F-secure to be lighter on their systems than NOD32, resource hit notwithstanding, and you can't deny people the right to have a better cleaner, faster system, JUST like you, so they can sleep well at night.
THIS is how we find out what works out for us... BY TRIAL AND ERROR... how can you expect Person X to believe that F-secure has a less impact on real time performance on Person X's PC if HE DOESN'T TRY IT OUT?

Scenario... People LOVE Drive Image. i hate it. I would rather buy Acronis' true image, having trialled both. If I had more pocket money to spare, i'd really buy it. I just think that TI's features outweigh DI. But if I had been afraid to try out these two, I'd still not know about Norton GoBack's high and constant disk usage! I had to stop using it after I had an HDD failure... If only I'd known sooner.

 

Heheh....I'm infected with security mania most of the time - I get paranoid if my eScan, or ArcaVir, does not update properly

 

Cqdx11 raises a good point.

At what point does it become either counterproductive or obsessive or in some way negative to carry forth with a certain activity.

I admit that I had a problem with internet pornography years ago. When you spend 30-40 hours a week looking at the stuff, you start to fail your loved ones and it does not help your sex life either.

I have a coworker who got in way over her head in internet chat rooms. Her online “friends” became way too important, and when she finally flew across the country and met them, the online ‘spark’ was not there in person. They faded away.

During the tech bubble, I (and millions of others) got a little obsessive about the stock market. I’d check stocks all day and read articles and analysis all night. That was not helpful in my life.

I have an uncle who retired a millionaire and about a year after he retired, he told me that he ‘had it all wrong.’ He wanted to finally take time and read voraciously. So he read several newspapers every day and many books that year. He announced that “life is not about reading, it’s about living”… and he started doing other things.

I too probably look at too many security app’s and think about getting new and probably very good software that I really don’t need. And I too get on the computer, and the first couple of minutes are spent updating everything and performing at least one scan. And then I come over here and read stuff..

But at this point, I think it’s an online hobby. I was very interested in online banks at one time and spent WAY too many hours in online banking message boards.

But some people go beyond, and become experts in their online hobby. If that expertise is used correctly and their knowledge disseminated, those people are performing a service and giving value to their fellow man. That is valiant. But they have to remember that their computer and online friends often don’t provide love or fullness in their lives, so they must temper themselves.

Balance is the key.

Make life meaningful, make life full, and don’t spend too much time in activities that will look hollow when you look at them years later.

But computer security (like many other things) is an interesting and useful online hobby…. Just practice balance.

 

You must remember, with age and experience brings wisdom and talent.

This babyboomer has done many other things in life. As a child I did make believe and after a saturday afternoon movie or tarzan, we would go swing from ropes in trees and build forts. We would go get frogs and cook their legs over an open fire.
In highschool I wrestled.
After highschool my profession was my own buisness doing carpentry.
During slow years I trapped and hunted to support my family. One year I shot 65 fox alone.
Then I went back to school for electronics which I am still doing.
I still hut for fun and fish. My every weekend during the summer is all about
fishing.
I did the online chat room in the early 90's and was lucky enough to meet some cool people. One example was Bob Seger ( Silver Bullet Band )
WE had some great times and even though I knew some had 100 people on their chat IM's , I only kept a small few. FInding internet chat buddies are adime a dozen and can suck your time dry if you fall into that trap.
I met two women that I fell in love with. I actualy went to meet one after chating for 5 years. Yes it was true love but distance keeps us apart.
MY first real attemp at cleaning crap off your drive was a program called CleanSweep by Quarterdeck. This is the first company I beta'ed for. Symantec bought this program and so I got grandfatherd into Symantec, Testing System Works. I was one of the first to bring the name Drive IMage to Wilders. I liked it because at the time it was IBM DOS driven, ( restore image from floppy LOL
Was the first to bring Diskeeper here.
I was one of the only ones that boasted Norton, except for a few good men that I never see here any longer.
I think I brought Spybot here in it's infancy, at the time when I was working with PepiK in Beta.
I won't feel guilty for being here and what I do. I even feel proud some days
for what I have done here.
I plan to keep on trucking.

Bruce

 

I am not addicted to security, but I find it interesting to explore the various capabilities of different programs.
It is like card making, which I just started to do, and is something to keep the brain active, and do something interesting.

Some folks like crossword puzzles. Some like golf. I like hunting, fishing, and shooting although time has caught up with me to some extent.

I prefer computer security to golf, or roller blading.

Jerry

 

I guess in a way we are somewhat addicted to security and its software.
Iam pretty sure that even if the perfect, catch 'em all, super duper piece of software came along that we would still pick holes and keep testing others. !!! I believe its our way

I love testing software and in a strange way I dearly hope that the super duper catch 'em all product does not ever appear!


Kev

 

During the tech bubble I was climbing the tech ladder the hard way, being self taught and having no means to go to school. My health failed at the same time the bubble burst, and after spending a couple years not able to do anything I went back to doing call center work. Doing fraud prevention and getting infected with a RAT opened my eyes to security, made me realize how much security knowledge I lacked, and actually brought the fun back into learning computers.. the more I learned about the programs, the more I would be introducted to new areas of the system, which increased my troubleshooting skills. This has brought me back from the dregs and set me back into learning ever more about the system. The information I've gained from security has led me to reading Windows System Internals (by the guys from SysInternals) and the Windows XP Registry guide, learning more than I ever thought I could on my own, and applying that knowledge to <gasp> improve my life in real ways. Not to mention the affect on just about every area of my life (not the least of which is my current job) from putting the effort that I do into writing.

Now that life has taken a serious turn for the worse (in the past couple weeks), with the woman in my life begins a battle w/ cancer and, in turn, keeping my own health at bay, this stuff is what keeps my thoughts organized and my eyes focused forward. Sure, there are times that I comb the forums when I could be doing something more productive, but the net effect of it all has been nothing short of positive.

Just like anything, it's not the thing itself as much as it is what you do with it. If security is something you like, run with it.. just as long as it doesn't become a detrement to your outside life. I don't think I could put it any more eloquently than controller and 'soup sandwich' have.

To me learning is key. I'd much rather see someone obsessively learning than compulsively zoning out in front of the TV. It's all about perspective.

 

Wow some really inspirational stuff here. Will OneNote it down .

Before Wilders, I was really ignorant about PC security and PC's though part of my job was to keep up with technology news, though it was mainly manufacturing related. Guess I never really got infected even though I didn't have a AV, so I never really bothered . Also helped that broadband was not prevalent back in the late 90's.

Found out about Wilders through a link at SpywareBlaster or Spybot S&D. It got really interesting because I never really knew what went on in the box beside my feet and Wilders provided the great opportunity to learn more about the PC, with advice and feedback given by the community (Thanks pple). As such, I purchased PG (though I have since junked it), mcafee, outpost and ewido based on reading some of the advice here. Of course, now Wilder's is a daily reading staple for me for new security stuff that is coming out. Like I just tried out ZA coz' my wife was having problems with her outpost and mcafee.