Rollback Rx question

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Ashanta, Dec 9, 2011.

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  1. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    All the imaging programs beside O&O DiskImage co-exist with Rollback Rx.

    In fact, you can build "Recovery Console" for all the imaging programs beside 1-Click Restore (Free & PRO), DriveCloner and Keriver Image.

    You can build "Recovery Console" for Macrium Reflect with EasyBCD as explained by member called, Raza007 in his thread.

    I tried to build "Recovery Console" for 1-Click Restore with EasyBCD, but it didn't work. Hard quite a few email with Mr. Keriver and eventually gave up.

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  2. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    The question is why would someone image the System drive partition when one is protected by Rollback Rx?

    There is no need to image, but only in one case when the hard disk fails. In this scenario, one is not protected with Rollback Rx.

    So, when the hard disk fails, and one needs to restore the image, the following two situations can happen.

    Situation 1: The restore image contains Rollback Rx installation, meaning image was taken without Rollback Rx being uninstalled. In this case on restoration of the image:

    a. The system might not boot depending on the imaging program used, which might contain MBR created by Rollback Rx. Thus, it will require restoration of the original MBR without the Rollback Rx installed. One has to have a backup made in advance of the original MBR.

    b. It will require uninstall of Rollback and reinstall of Rollback Rx.

    Situation 2. The restore image doesn't contain Rollback Rx installation, meaning image was taken without Rollback Rx being installed. In this case on restoration of the image:

    a. One doesn't have to worry about MRB.

    b. And, worry about uninstalling Rollback Rx on restoration of the image.


    Conclusion: One has to look into the future about the problems one will encounter when restoring the image and shouldn't worry about the convenience of taking the image in present time. Insurance against hard disk failure.

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  3. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    I have build "Recovery Console" for the following imaging programs that I own with EasyBCD.

    Acronis TrueImage Home 2011
    Image For Windows v2
    Macrium Reflect v4 (Paid)
    Macrium Reflect v5 (Free)
    Paragon HardDisk Manager Suite 2011
    WonderShare LiveBoot v7

    It is very easy, the only thing it requires is WAIK, which is a 1.7 GB download from Microsoft.

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  4. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Ashanta,

    Image-backup provides 'bottom-line' protection for your PC. While RB is extremely useful and convenient it isn't fail-proof.

    Freeware is nice of course, but imho it's worth opening your wallet to buy a really good image-backup program. Judging from all of the posts I've read by RB-knowledgeable people the two programs which usually come up on top are Drive Snapshot (DS) & Image For Windows (IFW). Being truly portable, DS is the easier (of the two) to place on a Live Windows OS disk or for that matter, anywhere you like, including on your backup storage drive, but it's also the more expensive of the two. DS costs $52 (US) whereas IFW runs about $33 (US).

    Scott
     
  5. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Both DS and IFW are very portable and they both can be easily placed on a Live Windows CD. DS costs $52 (US) for one machine, where as whereas IFW cost less than about $30 (US) for three machines.

    Also, only IFW is the only imaging programs which can do imaging with Rollback Rx installed and capture all the snapshots including the baseline of Rollback Rx. DS cannot do this.

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  6. Ashanta

    Ashanta Registered Member

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    Hi again,

    I read a lot about Rollback, tonight and I'm not sure I have all understood, my mind is "over-quota", I need to make a lot of effort to understand and it's too late in my country.

    I'd like to have with simple and clear words all the steps to uninstall Rollback without any troubles with MBR or Vista.

    Before unistalling RB, I plan to do a snapshot of this current system, so that I will have 1 baseline + 2 snapshots.

    During the uninstallation, which do I have to choose ?
     

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  7. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    It will give you a current snapshot and you need to pick that.
     
  8. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Ashanta, be sure to read this.


    KOR, I hope this doesn't sound prejudicial (as I actually own both DS & IFW), but I have experienced difficulties running IFW from a WinPE boot disk. I've reported my IFW difficulties in other threads but none of the IFW 'experts' were able to help me solve those issues! The fact of the matter is IFW was not designed to be a portable app whereas DS was and therefore it works from anywhere without any issues!!!


    While what you say is true, in order to accomplish that certain registry entries must be loaded in the correct sequence. Futhermore, it requires creating a RAW image which results in a much larger backup than a NORMAL image and takes much longer to complete. I submit that a NORMAL (Hot) image is good enough (capturing the current snapshot) and it's much more storage and time efficient than a RAW image. Furthermore, based on what I've experienced so far - using Drive Snapshot to create NORMAL (Hot) images of my RB partition - I have not had any restore problems!

    Scott
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
  9. Brian K

    Brian K Imaging Specialist

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    Scott,

    I'm not sure TeraByte would agree. They have apps to create a WinPE/BartPE plugin and a WinPE ISO. I know the plugin doesn't work for you.
     
  10. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Hi Brian,

    As you know IFW gives me (and some others) fits when attempting to use it as a portable app. Admittedly, it's a teriffic and flawless program when used for hot-imaging, using IFD/IFL for restoring (as I believe was TB's design intent).

    On the other hand DS simply works from anywhere, and that's what truly makes it a great portable app!!! :thumb:

    Regards,
    Scott
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2011
  11. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Dear Scott,

    From your post you seems to be thoroughly confused with IFW and especially how IFW works with Rollback Rx.

    A. IFW as an portable application to work with Live Windows CD, you need three files to be put under a sub-directory which I call "IFW". These three files are less than 1.6 mb.

    1. IFW.ini - which contains the information about Phylock.ini
    2. IMAGEW.ini - which contains your registration information
    3. IMAGEW.exe - This is the executable file which runs IFW

    With the above three files you should be able to run IFW from Live Windows CD like you can run DS.

    B. To create a WinPE CD/DVD/USB/ISO of IFW, you need two things. BTW, you cannot create WinPE for DS.

    1. TBWinPE plug-ins, which you can download from here:

    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/howto/tbwinpe_tutorial.htm

    2. WAIK files from Microsoft, which you can download from here:

    http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=5753

    Once you have the above two files you can create WinPE CD/DVD/USB/ISO for IFW. In fact with WAIK you can create WinPE for most imaging programs but not for for DS.

    C. Once you have WinPE of IFW, you can have IFW available as a "Recovery Console" as a boot menu with EasyBCD.


    Now with your confusion, especially how IFW works with Rollback Rx.

    A. If you want to HOT image with Rollback Rx installed and only want to capture the "most current snapshot" and not all the snapshots, including the baseline of Rollback Rx, you can use any imaging programs, including IFW.

    You use IFW without any registry modification and without doing RAW image (all sectors imaging including the unused sectors), just like DS. You will not have any restore problem and no problems with MRB either.

    B. If you want to HOT image with Rollback Rx installed and want to capture all the snapshots, including the baseline of Rollback Rx, you can only do this with IFW and with no other imaging programs and this includes DS.

    The reason you can do this only with IFW and with no other imaging programs is because IFW uses PHYLOCK to lock the disk where as all other imaging programs use VSS (from Microsoft) to lock the disk during HOT imaging. In this scenario you have to have to modify the registry and do a RAW image.

    Conclusion:

    1. IFW is the best for imaging while Rollback Rx is installed. As it gives you two options for imaging, (1) it allows you to make an image with the current snapshot of Rollback Rx OR (2) it allows you to make an image with all the snapshots of Rollback Rx, including the baseline of Rollback Rx too.

    2. It costs $10 USD per machine, whereas DS costs $52 per machine.

    3. You can build WinPE CD/DVD/USB/ISO with IFW but you cannot do this for DS.

    4. Once you have the WinPE of IFW, you can have the "Recovery Console" of IFW as boot menu and this cannot be done with DS.

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  12. Ashanta

    Ashanta Registered Member

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    Hi again KOR and Scott,

    All in all, there is no risk on MBR in my case, because there weren't any image installed on it.

    An 'update baseline' with RB rx means that my current datas will be saved and if I boot with a Live CD, these datas will appear it, is that true ?

    About my uninstallation, if instead of choosing 'initial baseline' I choose the first snapshot, will it recover all datas on my HDD before the snapshot date ?

    In which case RB rx, won't boot ? Did you experienced any troubles on boot ?
     
  13. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    When you update the baseline you are rolling up all snapshots and their data into the current snapshot. You wind up with one new baseline snapshot reflecting the most current state of your system. So yes, if you boot into a Live OS immediately after updating your baseline you will see your most current data.


    If the data in question exists in that first snapshot (after the baseline) then uninstalling to that snapshot will preserve that data (but not any changes to those data-files or new data that occured from the 2nd snapshot on)...


    Ashanta, if I'm understanding what you mean here, once you uninstall RB you will not see the RB sub-console any more upon bootup, but your system should bootup just fine. Personally, I seldom uninstall RB as there is little to be gained by doing that on a frequent basis!

    Scott
     
  14. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    @KOR!,

    Rather than repeat myself (as you have) you can see my reply to your comments (above) here.

    Scott
     
  15. Ashanta

    Ashanta Registered Member

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    Big thanks Scott !

    Kor,

    You said : "You use IFW without any registry modification and without doing RAW image (all sectors imaging including the unused sectors), just like DS. You will not have any restore problem and no problems with MRB either."

    How do you do with IFW ? Which Backup options you choose ? Is what I firstly have to do, previous to install RB Rx ?

    Look at this : http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-windows-ss.htm
    (the last screenshot on below)
     
  16. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Dear Ashanta,

    With Rollback Rx installed or not installed, I use the default settings as shown in the screenshots in your post.

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  17. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Dear Scott,

    I am glad that DS works for you. I own the following imaging programs, and for me I have found IFW to be the best.

    Acronis TrueImage Home2011
    EaseUS Todo Workshop v2.5
    EaseUS Todo BackUp v3 (Free)
    Image For Windows v2
    Keriver 1-Click Restore
    Macrium Reflect v4
    Macrium Reflect v5 (Free)
    O&O DiskImage v5
    O&O DiskImage v6
    Paragon DriveCopy 11
    Paragon HardDisk Manager Suite 2011
    WonderShare LiveBoot v7

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  18. Ashanta

    Ashanta Registered Member

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    Thanks KOR ! :)

    What is the main difference between RB Rx and IFW/DS, except the image restored speed on RB Rx??
     
  19. Jo Ann

    Jo Ann Registered Member

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    RB usually does the job and its ability to create instant snapshots and very fast restorations is quite remarkable. However, although not typical occurrences, you could suffer a physical disk-crash, or RB itself might become corrupted, or your system might become infected to the point where all RB snapshots are infected...

    In any of the above instances you will need to revert to a disk-image backup in order to restore your system!

    JA
     
  20. Ashanta

    Ashanta Registered Member

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    I'd like to have Scott and KOR point of views, please. :thumb: :thumb:
     
  21. Scott W

    Scott W Registered Member

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    Ashanta, I would say that Jo Ann's post is right-on (I have found her to be very knowledgeable in these matters).

    Scott
     
  22. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    Dear Ashanta,

    Both RB Rx and IFW/DS are different technologies and I will try to do my best to explain. But first IFW/DS.

    IFW/DS:

    IFW/DS or any imaging program is a super duper coping program, which main purpose is to make a 1/1 copying of the Operating System (System Partition Drive) at a point in time. Thus, if your operating system fails or your hard drive fails, you can restore from image the Operating System (System Partition Drive) at that point in time, when you made the image.

    Some imaging programs allow for either Incremental or Differential imaging. While others allow for both Incremental and Differential imaging.


    RB Rx:

    I call RB Rx, Past, the Present and Future. What RB Rx does on installation is to create ring (field) outside the operating system called, the baseline snapshot. Anything done after that is outside the ring (field) until a snapshot 1 is taken, then that comes under snapshot 1 ring (field). So on and so on, until you now have baseline, snapshots 1 thru 10. Basically, now you have 11 rings (fields) and your snapshot 10 is Present (current) snapshot and all others are Past snapshots, including the baseline.

    Now let us say that you revert back to snapshot 7, making it the Present (current) snapshot. Now the snapshots 1 thru 6 and the baseline are Past snapshots and snapshots 8 thru 10 are Future snapshots. The snapshots 8 thru 10 are there so that you can go back to them anytime you want to, and make any of them your Present (current) snapshot again. This is the strength of RB Rx and it is the main weakness too of RB Rx, as nothing is deleted and your hard disk keep on filling up until it crashes.

    To avoid the crashing of your hard disk, you have three options:

    1. Snapshot management, deleting snapshots on regular basis and defragmenting the snapshots on regular basis.
    2. Updating the baseline and not Reset to baseline, which basically means uninstalling and reinstalling RB Rx, but without physically uninstalling RB Rx.
    3. Physically uninstalling and later installing RB Rx.

    I like the the above third option. After the uninstall and before reinstalling RB Rx, one can do the disk management as follows:

    1. Wipe out the unused space on hard disk.
    2. Defrag the hard disk.
    3. Image the hard disk.

    And, then reinstall the Rollback Rx.

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  23. Ashanta

    Ashanta Registered Member

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    Big thanks KOR !

    I've all understood with my basic english ! :D :D

    What's the difference between "Incremental or Differential imaging" ?

    Incremental, I suppose, is the same with RB snapshots, like updating the OS with all changes, is this correct ? What about "differencial imaging" ?
     
  24. aladdin

    aladdin Registered Member

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    You are absolutely right about Incremental backup. Let us say you have done Full backup and Incremental backups from 1 to 10. To restore you will need the Full backup and all the 1 to 10 Incremental backups.

    Whereas, if you have done Full backup and Differential backups from 1 to 10. To restore you will need the Full backup and only the last Incremental backup, which is the number 10.

    Here is the IFW manual and on page 143, they have explained it very beautifully, even though IFW doesn't support Incremental backup.

    http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downloads/ifw_en_manual.pdf

    Since you have RB Rx, I will recommencement that once a month or every two month, you uninstall RB Rx, then do disk management, do Full HOT imaging (backup) and then reinstall RB Rx. With RB Rx you don't need either Incremental or Differential backups, only Full backup.

    Best regards,

    KOR!
     
  25. Ashanta

    Ashanta Registered Member

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    Hi KOR,

    Incremental/Diferential back up seem to be the same, both saved the latest change on your OS, they differ only by the methods during the back up.

    Which reliable software (free and paid) offers incremental/differential back up ?

    DS ?
     
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