Rollback Home Free Help

Discussion in 'backup, imaging & disk mgmt' started by Yash Khan, Mar 17, 2015.

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  1. Yash Khan

    Yash Khan Registered Member

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    Win 7 64
    I have installed the free version. Though little worried as don't have external disk to backup data.
    I couldn't find the help files so few queries here.

    Should I disable system restore?
    Can I do windows defrag or it will affect rollback?
    During boot if I press Home, it will show me all the snapshots to choose to restore?

    Attached are the screenshots
    Are the snapshots taken fine?
    Does the scheduler means only 1 snapshot will be taken automatically daily on 1st start of the system?
    In advanced settings -
    What is snapshot - all?
    What does all the options in the drop down snapshot - all means?
    What does the last option means "remind me to recover files after rollback"?


    Should I exclude Rollback in Eset Smart Security?
    Any incompatibility with ESS?


    Any suggestions?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    See my comments inside your quoted post...
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  3. Yash Khan

    Yash Khan Registered Member

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    Snapshot - All - You said the snapshots will be automatically deleted after x days.
    It will delete all the snapshots or will leave baseline & latest snapshot or what?

    Updates are automatic or manual?
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  4. TomAZ

    TomAZ Registered Member

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    Does this program require the use of VSS (volume shadow copy), or does include a proprietary drive that does the same thing in the event the VSS is not working?
     
  5. manolito

    manolito Registered Member

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    Rollback RX does not use VSS at all. It loads its low level driver before Windows and intercepts all file I/O. To achieve this it modifies the MBR, and this has the potential to make it dangerous (virus in the MBR or a M$ update for Windows which alters the MBR).

    Rollback will never delete the baseline. The baseline is the state of the Windows file system at the time when Rollback was installed. After this point in time the "real" file system will not change any more. All changes are done in the Rollback virtual file system. The only 2 ways to modify the real file system are uninstalling Rollback or updating of the baseline to the current state.


    Cheers
    manolito
     
  6. Yash Khan

    Yash Khan Registered Member

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    OK, tried a restore & was successful.
    Good restore speed.
    I restored to installation snapshot.

    It has an option to check for updates automatic/manual.

    What would be better to uninstall Rollback?
    Windows Add/Remove
    Rollback start menu uninstall
    Uninstall through Rollback menu during system boot

    On Win 7 64, defrag runs automatically on schedule by default, will this create any prob for Rollback?

    And anyone installed it under Win 7 64?
    Windows Updates was changed from automatic to let me choose to download/install.
    I think Rollback did this after it was installed & system restarted.
    I didn't installed any other program & Windows Updates was set to automatic before Rollback install.
    Can anyone confirm?
     
  7. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Your choice... nothing magic about this, although there have been some experiences of disaster strikes when Rollback was allowed to do this automatically (they seem to be rare, though).
    Your choice... all basically the same...
    Rollback tracks the surface of the disk, not files... defrag will trash the surface of the disk (move everything around), Roillback will record every change. The next snapshot after a defrag will be HUGE.
    Sure... no additional issues than what others may experience.
    This was done because it was discovered that "some" AUTOMATIC Windows updates were causing Rollback to explode and users were left with a neutered disk (no access to anything... losing all their files, etc.). This happened especially in the Windows 8.x world... don't know about W7. They changed it upon installation in the latest release to keep that from happening... BUT, it's only valid if RBrx users "clear" the updates with Horizon Data Sys before they're installed, and so far HDS hasn't come up with any kind of clearing mechanism so users are left holding the bag trying to figure out what's up. If the user manually does those updates, the same crash could occur. HDS needs to come up with a mechanism so that users know what they can and cannot install. For users of AUTOMATIC updates (the DEAFULT on most systems), this is a real semi disaster.

    This whole fiasco strarted after the Update 1 release of W8.1 which, in itself, destroyed many configurations. Then it was learned later that some patch issues from MicroSloth in the Patch Tuesday releases also caused some Roillback explosions... that's when they had to do something pro-active to stop the disasters. This is where they're at currently... not really much of a solution but at least there are no AUTOMATIC system explosions, only MANUAL ones.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  8. Yash Khan

    Yash Khan Registered Member

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    I have decided to uninstall it.
    And will install as soon as I get an external harddisk & create an image.

    Can you tell me if Toolwiz Time Machine is safe as it doesn't use mbr?
    This will replace windows system restore on my win 7 64 system.
     
  9. TerryWood

    TerryWood Registered Member

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    Hi All

    I am interested in trying Rollback home free. What I would like to know is this, if RollBack "fouled up" on my machine in the manner of so many previous reports, including damage to the MBR. Would I be able to restore a previously made disk image, say via Macrium and/or Aomei. If so would that remove any MBR problems?

    Thanks

    Terry
     
  10. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Terry... you have to look at the imaging app you wanna use to determine that. Some offer an option to return the MBR to what was saved. If the image was taken while RBrx v10.x was installed on your system, that MBR will not allow your system to be BOOTable when the image has been restored (neither will the one remaining after a nasty crash). To do this you will need an additional tool that can restore a STANDARD Windows MBR to your disk, and this would have to be done after the restoration of the image and before you try and BOOT from the restored image.

    When this is accomplished, your system most likely will BOOT but you will have no snapshots available and the Rollback application will be neutered (won't run and will offer an error or two when the system starts up). You will need to unINSTALL the neutered Rollback and reINSTALL it for it to be active once again.

    PS- if you made that image BEFORE you installed Rollback, and the imager offers the ability to return it WITH MBR... you will be fine. Most of the above is spoken in reference to imaging while Rollback is active on your system... and an explosion occurs.

    Also, if you image the RAW disk (all sectors) while RBrx was there, a return to the pre-crash state is very doable... but the image may be very large due to the amount of imaged space.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  11. TomAZ

    TomAZ Registered Member

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    So are you saying that once you start using a rollback program, you should no longer defrag?
     
  12. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    That would be my very suggestion. Most of us that have used Rollback in the past (or present), usually "schedule" those kinds of activities while Rollback is NOT INSTALLED on our system. Periodically I would unINSTALL Rollback, make any disk partition changes I wished to make (you sure can't do those while RBrx is installed) then defrag my HDD (defragging is really not required very often unless you have a really FULL disk and then even RBrx will give you some problems you don't expect). Following this work I would reINSTALL Rollback.

    The very same effect occurs with "snapshots" when using an imaging program to do this rather than something like Rollback. The "snapshot" images following a system defrag are very big... but at least it doesn't affect space on your protected volume (it just affects space on your image storage volume ;))
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  13. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    If you don't mind really big snapshots, it's not a problem.

    But understand... the snap taking and restoration are not really affected that much by the size of the snapshot... what really gets affected is the usable disk space available on the protected volumes, it disappears pretty fast as those large snaps start taking up that space. The other problem that some have found is if you eventually delete those large snapshots, Rollback doesn't always seem to free up that space properly. Some have run out of disk space over time. The only thing that freed up that space properly was usually an uninstall (to the CURRENT SYSTEM STATE) followed by a reINSTALL of Rollback, giving up all your snapshots in the process.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  14. TerryWood

    TerryWood Registered Member

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    Hi TheRollBackFrog

    Many thanks for your kind reply.

    "Some offer an option to return the MBR"

    Do you know if Macrium reflect Free or Aomei Free return the MBR? I had a look on the Aomei website but could not find anything specific.

    Thanks

    Terry
     
  15. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    I know Macrium has always been able to do it... and in most cases it was the DEFAULT, don't know about AOMEI. Just remember... returning a Rollback MBR (when imaging a RBrx-protected system) will NOT be BOOTable. If you image the pre-RBrx system... no problem.
     
  16. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Terry, another recent thread on this forum concerned restoring a system to a <BLANK> disk. AOMEI was able to do that without issue ONLY to a Legacy/MBR system... it was not able to handle UEFI/GPT systems at all. Apparently it doesn't deal well with the disk's 1st Track and when complete, the disk appears to be set to MBR mode even though the image was from a GPT volume.

    I believe AOMEI is currently working on the problem.
     
  17. oliverjia

    oliverjia Registered Member

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    I won't touch any snapshot program that regularly messes up with your MBR. This type of software is a bad idea to begin with.
     
  18. Peter2150

    Peter2150 Global Moderator

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    Likewise. Good solutions without that.
     
  19. Kurtis Smejkal

    Kurtis Smejkal Registered Member

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    Thanks to those who have started trying out RollBack Rx Home Edition. It's something we're proud of, and we're eager to see people use it.

    While Toolwiz doesn't affect your MBR, I wouldn't say that RollBack Rx does anything shady or unsafe with the MBR. In order for it to function, it needs to establish itself at the beginning of the boot up process.

    If you have any other questions regarding RollBack Rx and how it works with the MBR, our forum is a valuable resource.
     
  20. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    OK then... we'll affectionately call Rollback's MBR "modification" a BOOTkit (rather than a ROOTkit which some AV scanners think it might be but are probably wrong).

    That fact aside, users need to know that the non-"shady or unsafe" modification mentioned above will keep their systems from being able to BOOT successfully following a restoration by any imaging tool they might be using to protect that system... and with Rollback, that system, just like any other system, does need protection against hardware failure of the disk being protected. When that disk dies (just had one yesterday), there's no way Rollback will put "humpty" back together again.

    Users of this application need to know this... and it would be nice if Horizon Data Systems would tell users of that fact in their FAQ.
     
  21. Kurtis Smejkal

    Kurtis Smejkal Registered Member

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    I can definitely bring up the addressing of the MBR with our team. I think that's a valid point and one we can work towards addressing in the future, and we know there's no issues regarding this, but it's always good to be transparent with these things :)

    Hardware failure is the Achilles heel of RollBack Rx. I have to acknowledge that. However, since we know that this is an issue, we have been working with our development team on improving Drive Cloner. Drive Cloner's upcoming release is still in beta, but it can create a backup image file of your hard drive (including snapshots!) I know this has been promised for a while, and it's something some people will probably not believe me on, but it's tangible and real. Heck, I've been playing around with it the last few weeks.

    I extend this to you RollBackFrog, and any other users. If you're interested in trying out Drive Cloner's Beta, feel free to fire me an email. I'd be more than happy to give you a download link and key :)
     
  22. TheRollbackFrog

    TheRollbackFrog Registered Member

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    Hi Kurtis... thanks for responding. As far as your statement above, I'll try and be as diplomatic as I possibly can :rolleyes:

    Yes, after over 3+ years of promising the grand and glorious, all inclusive, Rollback RX friendly version of Drive Cloner, a BETA appeared last October 2014. Those of us (it should be every RBrx user) who felt a keen interest in this project jumped right on board for BETA testing. After some preliminary testing (not very extensive), we reported 10s of issues associated with the BETA release (it actually felt more like an ALPHA release)... after all, that's what a BETA program is for, isn't it? Some of the issues were significant so the few of us testers backed off to allow the Drive Cloner Dev Team (1-person...??) to at least address the initial issues discovered during that phase before we continued additional testing.

    Then what? Silence for 5-mo... not a good sign for me, anyway. I then asked when the testers might expect a next generation BETA. I was told all about HDS' small Dev teams, limited people, and "priorities"... all issues within the HDS "empire." Nobody could tell me when things would continue in any reasonable fashion so I just backed down... why waste my time.

    I happen to believe that DCv6 should be one of the most important projects within your firm. Here you have a snapshot program, RBrx, that still continues to have issues with strange and unnatural Windows system updates exploding your system... and your users have absolutely NO WAY to back that system up so it may be restored without a total rebuild of Windows and the user's applications, not to mention the loss of important data the user may have. This is a non-sequitor. Other users have found "ways" to back up their system but in most cases it requires some significant knowledge on the part of those users. Anyone else who has tried simple imaging or backup tools since the release of RBrx v10 and had to do a restoration has most likely failed miserably. This all started at the release of RBrx v10 and its manipulation of the MBR... v9 would work in most cases, v10 will not.

    I guess I just don't understand the fact that your marketing folks have missed entirely the fact that a Rollback friendly version of your very own imaging program could boost the fortunes of both products. I mean how good would it sound to potential (hell, how about CURRENT) RBrx users to know that a companion product will not only protect their systems upon any kind of serious failure... but also their snapshots! I would think this would boost tremendous confidence in RBrx knowing that it can't destroy your system any longer which is a real problem that has been had by many of the users right here in the Wilders Forums. Existing users (even past users that have been RBrx bombed), which have never felt safe due to the fact that RBrx is not an easy thing to back up, would probably jump at the chance to companion their RBrx product with the new DCrx v6 RBrx friendly product. I just don't know why HDS doesn't see this correlation... I guess I must be marketing challenged <sigh...>. I even suggested they should be companioned in a single product (they were back in RBrx v8 ).

    Oh well...
     
  23. Kurtis Smejkal

    Kurtis Smejkal Registered Member

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    Thank you RollBackFrog for your civil and diplomatic nature. Much appreciated :)

    In regards to the beta, I apologize that things have slowed down on that. I know all too well the benefit of community feedback, and how it can benefit our product. I can tell you that more issues came to light then what was anticipated. It was a case where we realized things needed a bit more work before we proceeded forward. At HDS we do want to make a high quality product, and sometimes while you're making that you find bumps along the road.

    As for the Drive Cloner and RollBack Rx, I can tell you that there have been internal discussions regarding adding it with purchases of RollBack Rx. I mean I'm not going to tell you it doesn't make sense, it totally does! It's something that would fit well with the product and we're looking into that internally. As for existing customers, I mean my email is the best way to reach out to me. If you already have RollBack Rx and are looking for Drive Cloner, feel free to fire me an email and I can see what I can do for you. Part of my job is a liaison with all of you, and I want to make sure that we're all keeping a nice open dialogue as it benefits all of us :)

    Cheers
     
  24. pvsurfer

    pvsurfer Registered Member

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    Kurtis,

    I am a long-time RBrx user (still hanging in there), but I must say that I completely agree with TheRollbackFrog's comments (above). Furthermore, as one of your DC6 beta-testers. I simply can't understand why no DC6 dev/tech ever participated in that forum. Not to belittle Sam Smith's forum presence, imho beta-testers should be able to directly communicate with someone involved with the project.

    pv

    PS. I'm confused by your remark "If you already have RollBack Rx and are looking for Drive Cloner, feel free to fire me an email and I can see what I can do for you." :confused:
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2015
  25. Kurtis Smejkal

    Kurtis Smejkal Registered Member

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    Hello PV,

    I think that's a very valid point. I'm new with the company, so a lot of these things are areas I (personally) am looking to find ways to improve. I think it's great that you want a direct line to developers, and I've made a note to bring that up as soon as I can. Undoubtedly you already know about our forums, but you can always email me as well.

    As for that comment, I understand the long history on this forum of people promising Drive Cloner's ability to backup snapshots. I'm in a position where if you have RollBack Rx and not Drive Cloner, that means the Achilles heel of our program is bare and open. I think that as a gesture of good faith, if you ever wish to email me we can work something out. At least until we work out ideas of incorporating some elements of Drive Cloner with RollBack Rx.

    Thanks for your support!
     
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