Revealed: NSA collecting phone records of millions of Americans daily

Discussion in 'privacy general' started by mirimir, Jun 5, 2013.

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  1. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/nsa-phone-records-verizon-court-order
     
  2. JackmanG

    JackmanG Former Poster

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    Old story. In fact I actually just brought it up again a few hours ago.
     
  3. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    What's new, I think, is that The Guardian has a copy of the court order ;)
     
  4. lotuseclat79

    lotuseclat79 Registered Member

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  5. TheKid7

    TheKid7 Registered Member

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    Always Outmanned, Always Outgunned:
    http://threatpost.com/always-outmanned-always-outgunned/
     
  6. Dermot7

    Dermot7 Registered Member

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    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
  7. siljaline

    siljaline Registered Member

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    Patriot Act author says NSA is going too far.
    http://venturebeat.com/2013/06/06/nsa-patriot-act/

    Top Secret America - a hidden world beyond control.
    http://projects.washingtonpost.com/...ticles/a-hidden-world-growing-beyond-control/

    U.S. government secretly collecting citizen phone records with Verizon
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/u-s-gov...-citizen-phone-records-with-verizon-1.1313472

    Confirmed: The NSA is Spying on Millions of Americans.
    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/confirmed-nsa-spying-millions-americans

    White House defends NSA as outrage over Verizon data surveillance grows.
    http://www.theverge.com/2013/6/6/4401654/white-house-nsa-verizon-us-call-records

    Verizon Breaks Silence on Top-Secret Surveillance of Its Customers.
    http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/06/verizon-responds/

    NSA phone records collection: anger swells after data revelations.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/06/obama-administration-nsa-verizon-records

    U.S. Maintains Vast Database of Phone Calls, Lawmakers Say.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/07/us/nsa-verizon-calls.html

    - "Wake Up, America: You're Letting Your Privacy Slip Away" -
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-youre-letting-your-privacy-slip-away/276595/

    White House: Spying on US citizens “critical” tool for fighting terror.
    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...s-citizens-critical-tool-for-fighting-terror/
     
  8. LockBox

    LockBox Registered Member

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    Biggest privacy issue regarding technology in my 50+ years on this planet.

    That's not a political statement in any way, though it clearly involves public policy in this case. It's a social/cultural observation that enrages me.

    If Glenn Greenwald isn't careful he's going to win a Pulitzer one of these days. Thank god somebody is doing the dirty work and getting the goods.
     
  9. TheWindBringeth

    TheWindBringeth Registered Member

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    I wonder what they (Verizon, etc) actually turned over. When I think of "calls" I tend to think of:

    1) Voice calls
    2) Fax calls
    3) Dialup networking calls
    4) Various types of burglary/fire/health alarm system calls (when set off, periodic connection testing, etc)

    However, one would wonder if (in response to this order and/or some other order) other "metadata" was shared. How about:

    5) Text Messages?
    6) Vehicle system (OnStar, etc) communications?
    7) Other?

    Even *if* Verizon didn't include subscriber information (and we don't know whether they did or not), there are tons of public records and other databases that could be used to append business and individual names to numbers. The government could be not only mapping out relationships between individuals but also individual<->businesses and businesses<->businesses. If location data were included where mobile devices were involved, all those datapoints collected during the N months (or years!) would also be revealing. Not only in terms of one's travel patterns but especially if the locations were combined with additional records pertaining to those locations (what business was there, who lived there, etc).

    Didn't several smaller businesses/organizations stand up and try to fight NSLs and gag orders? Should we let Verizon off the hook based on nothing more than "we would be required to comply"? This is, after all, a company which chose to begin sharing/selling/using CPNI for advertising and other commercial purposes.
     
  10. CloneRanger

    CloneRanger Registered Member

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    Who's next to be outed ?

    I doubt if the're the only ones, why would they be !

    Is the NSA's new & enormous UTAH spy network operational yet ? If not just wait until it is :eek:
     
  11. LockBox

    LockBox Registered Member

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    Please remember, these are two seperate scandals. One broke yesterday, this bigger one just today. See other thread. Don't get confused...this is bad.
     
  12. Dermot7

    Dermot7 Registered Member

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  13. siljaline

    siljaline Registered Member

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    It's not known at this point what exact data was datamined using: PRISM.
     
  14. CloneRanger

    CloneRanger Registered Member

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    How nice :thumbd:

    MS hey, well there's a Big surprise :thumbd:

    Google "might" not have a backdoor, but it doesn't actually need one, as it has OPEN doors = The NSA has multiple Fat pipes & real time parallel connection intercepts to not Only Google, but All ISP's & cable/satellite etc entry/exit points to/from the USA.

    I'm shocked that some people are ! As this has been public knowledge since 2006 !

    ~ Removed Copyrighted Image ~

    More NSA exposé http://goo.gl/Zzd70

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 7, 2013
  15. LockBox

    LockBox Registered Member

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    Well, considering nobody, except those involved, had ever heard of PRISM just 6 hours ago then of course we don't know the exact data that was mined. I'm confused by the purpose of your post as you merely stated the obvious. Does that mean it's not worthy of discussion? Just trying to figure out what the purpose of that post was.

    Exact might be a broad term in this case as it might translate into --- everything.
     
  16. siljaline

    siljaline Registered Member

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  17. TheWindBringeth

    TheWindBringeth Registered Member

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    The only analogy I can think of at the moment would be learning that a PET scan revealed several cancer hot spots vs learning from a followup PET scan that the cancer had spread to involve far more of your body. Even if/when one strongly believes that it has spread, the news... the confirmation... can hit them hard.

    Simply hearing that it isn't just AT&T but also Verizon and Sprint that are handing over customer records for all (purely) domestic phone communications is pretty hard hitting. On top of that we've heard that key tech companies are providing the government with unfettered access to their databases. On top of that there are also reports that credit card companies and Internet service providers are likewise handing over customer records. Regardless of whether one is saying "I knew it", "I told you so", "I'm not really surprised", or "OMG when did this start"... the magnitude of what is being revealed/confirmed is really quite breathtaking.
     
  18. Dermot7

    Dermot7 Registered Member

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    Can't understand how a few people are just mixing the two seperate stories, and not posting about this in the other thread: https://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=348308
    Although there are connections (NSA, data collection etc) I see this thread as being about Verizon/court order for phone data etc, and other thread is about PRISM. Oh well....
     
  19. dogbite

    dogbite Registered Member

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    It seems East Germany's Stasi was not dead in 1989 but simply it has been relocated..:D
     
  20. JackmanG

    JackmanG Former Poster

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    BREAKING:

    US declassifies phone program details after uproar

     
  21. siljaline

    siljaline Registered Member

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  22. Rmus

    Rmus Exploit Analyst

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    From the "Nothing's New Department:"

    Searching for Honest History: Domestic Surveillance
    http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=620&hilite=constitution&print=yes

    See also:

    Project Shamrock
    http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/12/project_shamroc.html

    ----
    rich
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2013
  23. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    It's really quite simple. In order to properly do their job, national intelligence agencies need to know everything. Some do that far better than others. The NSA is probably the best, given its rich expertise and massive resources.

    This is an agency that, for example, monitored telephone conversations among top Soviet leaders in the 1960s! They also orbited disposable cameras the size of school buses. And that was fifty years ago!
     
  24. TheWindBringeth

    TheWindBringeth Registered Member

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    Except that, in this case, the job definition requires adherence to United States law and particularly the Constitution... and the agency receiving the data is tasked with collecting foreign intelligence. I'm not an expert on such matters and legalities, but I thought it interesting that it was the FBI... the agency authorized to collect domestic intelligence and business records (though not necessarily en masse like we've seen disclosed)... that applied for the order. It is though they knew the NSA receiving such data would be out of bounds and chose to have the FBI make the request (that information be forwarded to the NSA) so that it would appear legit.

    In Response to the NSA, We Need A New Church Committee and We Need It Now
    https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/06/response-nsa-we-need-new-church-commission-and-we-need-it-now
     
  25. mirimir

    mirimir Registered Member

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    That's the cover story. But in truth, the NSA does not consider itself bound by the US Constitution. It's above all that. At times, its staff have admitted as much. And it's not unique. All national intelligence agencies operate that way.
     
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